Guest BFSleuth Posted September 14, 2012 Posted September 14, 2012 While I know that Nelson has raised the possibility of BF using English words sprinkled into their speech, I'm not convinced by what he has presented that this is the case. I do think that there is a possibility they have language, but trying to read English words into these recordings is likely the auditory equivalence of pareidolia, trying to find a known sound within the phonemes just like we try to find faces in shadows and leaves. In this particular recording the phoneme "Bock" or "Bak" is what jumps out at me, very similar to the pronunciation of the syllable in Korean. What we hear as "away" can just as readily be phonetically spelled as "ah wei" (also syllables in Korean). In this case "bak" might be the subject that is modified by "ah wei". It is suggestive that the phrases do sound like "Get back" and "Back away" and in the context of the situation it makes sense. Further research is needed before I would be convinced they are actually using English words.
bipedalist Posted September 14, 2012 BFF Patron Posted September 14, 2012 Those that have heard this chatter over several periods of time and studied the examples understand that there are phonemes involved. Some are very English-sounding for sure. I don't believe Nelson weighed in on whether there is clear cut mimicry or English-sounding words. Some may attribute their own linguistic traditions to their interpretation. Some may feel it is purely mimicry. Several researchers and the literature describe Sasquatch/BF as being able to reliably mimic the nuances of individual people's voices though such that it was high enough fidelity to fool others. Is a parrot's mimicry really that high fidelity relatively speaking? I don't think so. My personal opinion based on listening to captures is that it is not just mimicry though. I have heard and recorded what sounds like non-English words that have been described and coined by others as Samurai chatter. Perhaps an experiment of playing a sound recorder with definitive English speech at a certain cadence and utterance length could be used to determine the level of mimicry for starts. Maybe left at the cabin when they are away from the cabin, played through a window or screen. Or left hanging or strung up in a tree for later recovery.
Guest Posted September 14, 2012 Posted September 14, 2012 (edited) Were any of the debris items collected? No, but we have several rocks that were tossed on the roof. Bipto, in your podcast, if I am recalling correctly, you make a statement seeming to suggest you flirted with a paranormal explanation for what you witnessed, especially regarding the speed of the (supposed) ape. Were your comments just musings, or is a paranormal explanation a serious consideration for you? NO. What I said was, if I was the sort of person to ascribe paranormal abilities to bigfoot, then what I saw would not cause me to rethink that. They moved unbelievably quickly. I've not flirted with any paranormal explanations whatsoever (though I have perhaps flirted with paranormal investigators — hey, I'm still human). The human head is the only place known where we may find hair without medulla. Does this preclude your sample from the ape category? Would this cause you to reconsider a human sasquatch? No. They have to do something that suggests they're "human". They haven't thus far. You mention that the perp(s) was throwing "twigs" (along with rocks and nuts). Wouldn't this suggest the tosser was close? Even a giant ape would have a problem throwing lightweight twigs any serious distance. And the tosser was not located? They were presumably very close. The "tosser"(s) were not seen, but they could be heard retreating up the mountain when we came around to catch them doing it. Here's the deal about that cabin. It creaks a lot when you're walking around in it. Even sitting up in bed causes enough noise that you can hear it outside. We can hear the sounds they make when we're supposed to be asleep, both in walking around the structure and throwing things onto or against it (including themselves, presumably), but there's little we can do to try to catch them that isn't telegraphed by the structure itself. They know very well our physical limitations. Know very well how far they can push us when we're inside and what they can get away with. It's maddening. It's not as simple as walking outside to see what's throwing the rocks because they position themselves in such a way that as soon as you make a move, they're already half way up the slope. Remember, the animals I saw covered about 30 yards or so, uphill, over uneven and rocky terrain, in well under five seconds. They are perfectly suited to their environment. We aren't. ... trying to read English words into these recordings is likely the auditory equivalence of pareidolia, trying to find a known sound within the phonemes just like we try to find faces in shadows and leaves. This. Exactly. Edited September 14, 2012 by bipto
southernyahoo Posted September 14, 2012 Posted September 14, 2012 but there's little we can do to try to catch them that isn't telegraphed by the structure itself. They know very well our physical limitations. Know very well how far they can push us when we're inside and what they can get away with. It's maddening. This sounds almost psychic, I mean, how would they have any sense of how far they could push you? How far would you estimate the debris had to be thrown to land on the roof and allow the tossers to be within cover?
Guest Posted September 14, 2012 Posted September 14, 2012 It's not psychic. They can hear us in the cabin and their experience with us has taught them how quickly we move, how we *usually* come out of the cabin, etc. I'm not sure how far away they could have been. There is cover very close to the cabin.
Sasfooty Posted September 14, 2012 Posted September 14, 2012 They can also put a rock on the roof directly above where you are standing in a good, solid house, when you are tiptoeing around barefooted. I think there is a lot more to it than just a good pair of ears.
Guest Posted September 14, 2012 Posted September 14, 2012 If you're suggesting a supernatural explanation, then you're on your own. In the situation being discussed, we can't move in stealth, they can. It's just that simple.
bipedalist Posted September 14, 2012 BFF Patron Posted September 14, 2012 To equate Samurai chatter to pareidolia is far from spot on. The level of vocalic utterance is far from auditory blobsquatches too. There is no mistaking that phonemes are being created spontaneously and not by mimicry. Whether the degree and level is from points of reason, understanding and mutual communication between unknown bipedals I guess we shall find out. Whether they are attempting to communicate with humans through phonemic utterances will be on the list of things to determine. I think TBRC will find that this is far from simple mimicry, it will just take time and more effort.
southernyahoo Posted September 14, 2012 Posted September 14, 2012 Bipto, I recall that from operation endurance, it was reported that some of the investigators were attempting to speak to the woodape visitors in a taunting manner. Was that some sort of experiment to see if they understood the investigators words? It's not psychic. They can hear us in the cabin and their experience with us has taught them how quickly we move, how we *usually* come out of the cabin, etc. I'm not sure how far away they could have been. There is cover very close to the cabin. They are conducting research and the hairless apes I think. Still more questions than answers. LOL
okieman Posted September 14, 2012 Posted September 14, 2012 Bipto, I recall that from operation endurance, it was reported that some of the investigators were attempting to speak to the woodape visitors in a taunting manner. Was that some sort of experiment to see if they understood the investigators words? They are conducting research and the hairless apes I think. Still more questions than answers. LOL It wasn't done to see if they could understand us, it was done out of frustration caused by the wood apes.
Guest Posted September 14, 2012 Posted September 14, 2012 Was that some sort of experiment to see if they understood the investigators words? Nope.
Guest BFSleuth Posted September 14, 2012 Posted September 14, 2012 It wasn't done to see if they could understand us, it was done out of frustration caused by the wood apes. Somehow this conjures up images of BF sniggering in the bushes. Do you get the feeling that they have a sense of humor?
okieman Posted September 14, 2012 Posted September 14, 2012 Somehow this conjures up images of BF sniggering in the bushes. Do you get the feeling that they have a sense of humor? Probably more like curiosity.
Sunflower Posted September 14, 2012 Posted September 14, 2012 In Mississippi a few years ago at a friend's home was an amazing moment for me. We had left the woods and were walking single file to the house. I was last and just as the rest of the group had turned the corner of the house I heard someone from the woods say "Hey!" We knew that no one was in there, it was daytime in the afternoon and on private property. It sounded sort of human but not quite the same and I can't prove it and no one else heard it but me. This property had several sightings, amazing pics and a ten footer visited the campsite with a researcher as well.
Guest Posted September 14, 2012 Posted September 14, 2012 @bipto Did you guys ever do any baiting or planting of some small food plots ?
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