Guest COGrizzly Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Any real man would come out and apologize. At least that's my own opinion. Everyone makes mistakes, both large and small. It's how they deal with those mistakes in the end that matters. If they are not "man" enough to simply apologize, then sometimes they get the bull by the horns. Well said HM. Plus 1 to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 It hasn't happened yet but as the integrity of the field further deteriorates I would not be surprised if it didn't escalate to that point in the future. I'ld really be interested in seeing the reactions to a hoaxer if any of these DNA studies come back negative or questionable in some way. The fury would be more intense, the stakes higher, it's not out of the realm of possibility. Yeah, if these dna studies turn out to be bunk the Elbe trackway uproar will seem minuscule in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steenburg Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I had met to write this on the resent Washington track find thread but it has been locked for now so I will just state my 2 cents worth here. As researchers part of the job is to expose hoaxes and the people who perpetrate them. That is part of what being a researcher is all about. It is also one of the things which separates a true researcher from an Advocate. One simple fact that I have learned since I first got involved with this subject in 1978 was the fact that you will encounter fake sighting reports, footprint finds, and all kinds of other weird and wonderful stuff which so many advocates insist must be caused by Sasquatch in one way or the other. The late Paul freeman who I knew well comes to mind and I now fully admit that back in the early to mid 1980s he had me fooled. Meldrum still has me scratching my head on some of his footprint claims. But the man was hoaxing at least part of the time and could very well have been all of the time. Ivan Marx syndrome as I call it still infects a good many people who are in a hurry for what ever reason to draw attention to them selves. Or hoaxers who wish to chuckle at the fact they succeeded in fooling the researchers. The main problem in these cases are researchers whom feel they must not in any way reveal that they may have been taken in. To that I say do not worry about it. Its a learning experience, it will happen. A certain fellow recently up here in British Columbia at Golden Ears Park had taken in quite a few people for a short period of time, myself at first took a great interest in what he was claiming to come across, the first red flags for me was his extraordinary luck with out any real convincing back up. Finally I caught him red handed and exposed his antics, much of which was debated right here on this forum. I guess it is now against forum rules to mention his name but many of you know who I am talking about. The real crime, (for lack of a better word} as far as I am concerned would be if a exposed hoaxer were later on to be taken seriously. That just makes the whole field look foolish and all researchers appear as simple advocates. After all the goal here is to find a answer to a great mystery not push some religious type faith. Researchers have to except the real possibility that the Sasquatch question may very well turn out in the end to nothing more than a fantastic peace of North American folklore. I personally at this point do not be leave that, but as a researcher in search of an answer I have to accept that in the end this may turn out to be the case. If it does end up this way in my life time the howling skeptics who will cry. "I told you so" will not bother me in the slightest. Why? Because I was a researcher in search of the answer, not an advocate pushing a faith. Big difference between the two. Just as there is a big difference between a true skeptic and out right cynic. Thomas Steenburg 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) There are enough unhinged people in this world that might see fit to take it upon themselves to do harm to those interested in the subject or exposing it as a farce (in their minds). I once had a person call me while working on the road that unless I made time to talk with him he would not release my wife... He claimed to have kidnapped her. Another time, I walked out to my truck at 3:50am to go to work an there was a guy with a shoe box in his hands waiting for me. He had tracks in it he felt I should see. Then there is the recent clown in a suit who got run over twice and was killed. Someone faking a suit is liable to get themselves shot and killed. Outing this hoaxer and his friends could get a would be avenger involved that could cause them harm. You will not be getting anything from me as to their identity. You have all seen the gun threads. Well I have gone out with want to be researchers who carry that shouldn't. I my self almost had my head taken off with a dropped weapon in a cave. To all the naysayers who have taken this to the next level... My advice is to get out, leave, before your antics and childish behavior get you into something you didn't want to be in. Nobody is going to miss you, the subject will continue with or without. Edited October 9, 2012 by damndirtyape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotter Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Would a fear of a butt kicking stop possible future hoaxes? I suppose everyone would react differently if it was their sandbox that got trashed. Some would cover it up and ask nicely to stop, others would not. I personally think that hoaxers should be outed. Edited October 9, 2012 by AaronD deleted foul language Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Really? That is the image you want to portray of Bigfooters? 'If you hoax us, we will hurt you, and thus hurt your innocent family' Are you not hearing what DDA is saying? He has been stalked by Bigfooters, that is a very scary situation, and here you are talking about violence on someone who played a joke on you? Do you even think of the consequences of doing something like that? The damage to a family and the children, because their father got beat up by an unstable Bigfooter? Edited October 9, 2012 by See-Te-Cah NC To remove directly preceding post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 They should be outed. Along with their helpers. Bigfooting may be on the fringe, but I think thanks to the BFF, that we consider ourselves a community. Aren’t we a group of friends who agree and disagree, but in the end, wish no ill will on anyone? I've seen us donate and have well wishes and heart-felt sorrow when sadness has entered into our personal lives. Remember when HRPuff gave $10,000 to the Tsunami relief because of kitakaze - remember when we cried because Fishbone35, Firefly, and Blackdog died. To think that someone associated with the BFF could so casually throw all that away breaks my heart. You really should be ashamed and you should come forward on your own, but I suspect highly you won't. Sad. Very well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotter Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Hi Drew - I simply asked a question if hoaxes would decline if a fear of an butt kicking was present. I certainly would not advocate it. Has Rick Dyer or Biscardi gotten physically assaulted? I agree, stalkers are scary, most of the time unstable people. And folks should not have to worry about such things. So the question posed was simply, if that fear was there, would it reduce hoaxes? And secondarily, I think hoaxers should be outed so that the deception ends at that point and others are not taken advantage of. Edited October 9, 2012 by AaronD foul language Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Would a fear of an butt kicking stop possible future hoaxes? While I sympathize with the underlying frustration, that is going entirely too far. Outing someone and heaping scorn on them is one thing, physical violence is entirely another, and I wish to publicly disassociate myself with any notion of advocating actual violence against a hoaxer, no matter the side of the fence they're on. Edited October 9, 2012 by AaronD edited quote for foul language Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotter Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way advocating a butt kicking. Simply asking a question. Edited October 10, 2012 by AaronD foul language Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Hoaxers should be outed. I'll get us started: "Roger Patterson" (BTW, that was a +1 from me Mulder in post 39.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cervelo Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) While I obviously don't take this that seriously some of the sentiments expressed, I find them very disturbing. It very much reminds me of people standing around watching a lynching and doing nothing about it......in my book they are as guilty as the perps. I also found it amazing that some statements are tolerated at all, very disappointing and a little scary! Edited October 10, 2012 by Cervelo To bring the post into compliance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Hoaxers should be outed. I'll get us started: "Roger Patterson" Still hasn't been proven despite 40 years of trying. (BTW, that was a +1 from me Mulder in post 39.) Appreciated. Suggesting actual harm to a person over a BF hoax is going too far in any reasonable person's book. Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way advocating a butt kicking. Simply asking a question. I'll accept that you may not have intended for it to appear so, but that was the impression that was left. Suggesting someone is/should be "thrown under the bus", for example, is well known to be metaphorical, and no one reasonably expects someone literally do that. Suggesting a butt-kicking, however, is something that might well be considered a literal suggestion, as it is less extreme. Granted, it's hard to know when to pull back on the rhetoric these days, given the number of crazies that seem to be out there. That's why we have to be careful. Edited October 9, 2012 by AaronD foul language Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest baboonpete Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 There are enough unhinged people in this world that might see fit to take it upon themselves to do harm to those interested in the subject or exposing it as a farce (in their minds). I once had a person call me while working on the road that unless I made time to talk with him he would not release my wife... He claimed to have kidnapped her. Another time, I walked out to my truck at 3:50am to go to work an there was a guy with a shoe box in his hands waiting for me. He had tracks in it he felt I should see. Then there is the recent clown in a suit who got run over twice and was killed. Someone faking a suit is liable to get themselves shot and killed. Outing this hoaxer and his friends could get a would be avenger involved that could cause them harm. You will not be getting anything from me as to their identity. You have all seen the gun threads. Well I have gone out with want to be researchers who carry that shouldn't. I my self almost had my head taken off with a dropped weapon in a cave. To all the naysayers who have taken this to the next level... My advice is to get out, leave, before your antics and childish behavior get you into something you didn't want to be in. Nobody is going to miss you, the subject will continue with or without. no offense, but spoken like the victim of a hoax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotter Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 @Mulder - Y'know, I've reread it a few times, and I guess I could have worded it better. I should understand that in cyber-land, the absolute worst possible inferences will be made. I meant not to suggest, but rather to get a feel as to when one 'thinks like a hoaxer', if that would play a part in the frequency of hoaxes or not, by asking the question. There certainly seems to be a fear of it as an afterthought, but not much thought put into it prior to the hoax - is what I'm inferring from the responses in this, and other threads. So, just to reiterate, I would like to clear it up for all, I was in no way suggesting that anyone deserves physical harm for hoaxing, nor would I want to suggest to folks that they dole out street justice on those that do hoax. If I could go back and edit, I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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