Guest grandcherokee Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I had met to write this on the resent Washington track find thread but it has been locked for now so I will just state my 2 cents worth here. As researchers part of the job is to expose hoaxes and the people who perpetrate them. That is part of what being a researcher is all about. It is also one of the things which separates a true researcher from an Advocate. One simple fact that I have learned since I first got involved with this subject in 1978 was the fact that you will encounter fake sighting reports, footprint finds, and all kinds of other weird and wonderful stuff which so many advocates insist must be caused by Sasquatch in one way or the other. The late Paul freeman who I knew well comes to mind and I now fully admit that back in the early to mid 1980s he had me fooled. Meldrum still has me scratching my head on some of his footprint claims. But the man was hoaxing at least part of the time and could very well have been all of the time. Ivan Marx syndrome as I call it still infects a good many people who are in a hurry for what ever reason to draw attention to them selves. Or hoaxers who wish to chuckle at the fact they succeeded in fooling the researchers. The main problem in these cases are researchers whom feel they must not in any way reveal that they may have been taken in. To that I say do not worry about it. Its a learning experience, it will happen. A certain fellow recently up here in British Columbia at Golden Ears Park had taken in quite a few people for a short period of time, myself at first took a great interest in what he was claiming to come across, the first red flags for me was his extraordinary luck with out any real convincing back up. Finally I caught him red handed and exposed his antics, much of which was debated right here on this forum. I guess it is now against forum rules to mention his name but many of you know who I am talking about. The real crime, (for lack of a better word} as far as I am concerned would be if a exposed hoaxer were later on to be taken seriously. That just makes the whole field look foolish and all researchers appear as simple advocates. After all the goal here is to find a answer to a great mystery not push some religious type faith. Researchers have to except the real possibility that the Sasquatch question may very well turn out in the end to nothing more than a fantastic peace of North American folklore. I personally at this point do not be leave that, but as a researcher in search of an answer I have to accept that in the end this may turn out to be the case. If it does end up this way in my life time the howling skeptics who will cry. "I told you so" will not bother me in the slightest. Why? Because I was a researcher in search of the answer, not an advocate pushing a faith. Big difference between the two. Just as there is a big difference between a true skeptic and out right cynic. Thomas Steenburg Sooo very right on, Tom!!! I am willing to take proof ( not evidence!) that this creature does not exist, just as well as proof ( not evidence! ) that this creature does exist! Does that make me a sceptic? No! Just a realist! My advise is to 'center' yourself and do not be in a hurry to lean one way or the other. And when you do 'lean'...make sure it is because of your beliefs..not some other persons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockape Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I don't really understand the concern over "outing" hoaxsters. Names like Biscardi and Standing have been out there a long time and no harm has come to them. I say out them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gerrykleier Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Perma-banning and messaging to the Admins of every forum that can be reached as to the fact that the individual is a known hoaxer and should not be trusted. He can always go post someplace where they for the most part don't care about integrity...I think we all know the place... I agree. This is pretty much the minimum. It should be public knowledge as well. There is a legal hurdle to be overcome here, as well as an ethical one too, but getting the info out is very important. GK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I find the importing of legal concepts to the world of bigfootery problematic, whether it's debating whether certain conduct is actionable, whether killing a BF is an offence, or using terms like "evidence" and "testimony" in discussing a witness's account. These are all highly technical areas that armchair critics should be cautious to dabble in. I will say this though - whether it's suing a hoaxer for wasting one's time, or a hoaxer suing a website for making their details public post-hoax, it's very likely that the damages suffered would not be worth the cost of filing the suit, and that it will not get past the judge's laughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 First, I have a hard time believing this person. Whenever someone tosses their "education" into an argument the less credibility give them I will. Second, even if Meldrum or another Anthropologists get these, remember the established scientific community does not believe a large primate lives in North America anyway. To the scientists they already think prints are fake. So, in a way this is not a loosing credibility for anyone but the person perpetrating the hoax. Even if Meldrum does miss-identify them, Meldrum can say prove these are yours and reverse the hoax. Typically the prints found are not on a well beat path often, and not very well preserved and able to have casts made. Unless this person makes the tracks 10 miles up Ape Canyon taking the 10,000,000,000 : 1 odds someone carrying plaster 999,999,999,999 : 1 odds, the night before someone has the plaster and is being followed 999,999,999,999,999,999 : 1 odds finds these after wind, rain and erosion would be astronomical. I wish the hoaxer the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wudewasa Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 This should be the official hoaxer hunting song of BFF 2.0 Visions, visions show the future I've armored myself for your assault Despicable notions occur in your mind Displaying the nature shown in your eyes Plotting and planning you weave all your schemes As a coward honor less and lost in your fear So blunt is your knife so dull is your spear The time you have waited for this time has grown near Betrayer Have you fallen away from yourself Betrayer I shall spell your Doom Fallen farther and farther away Forsaken your dreams and lost in your schemes Betrayer I shall seal your Fate Numbing, numbing your weapons are useless Forever you cower in shadows of dust Betraying the ones who once called you brother In shadows you hide like a coward you run Broken, broken you stand alone Weighted by guilt and a hollow soul Broken, broken you shall be broken This winter of wolves shall relish the slaughter Betrayer Have you fallen away from yourself Betrayer I shall spell your Doom Fallen farther and farther away forsaken your dreams and lost in your schemes Betrayer I shall seal your Fate Forever the wolves will hunt you Forever the wolves will hunt you Forever the wolves will hunt you And drag you into the frozen abyss Forever the wolves will hunt you Forever the wolves will hunt you Forever the wolves will hunt you And devour your liver your lungs and your heart Forever the wolves will hunt you Forever the wolves will hunt you Forever the wolves will hunt you A sacrifice to the alfather above Forever the wolves will hunt you Forever the wolves will hunt you Forever the wolves will hunt you Fallen and fallen away and away the... Betrayer Have you fallen away from yourself Betrayer I shall spell your Doom Fallen farther and farther away Forsaken your dreams and lost in your schemes Betrayer I shall seal your Fate Betrayer Have you fallen away from yourself Betrayer I shall spell your Doom Fallen farther and farther away Forsaken your dreams and lost in your schemes Betrayer I shall seal your Fate http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwhvHoY85Us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gerrykleier Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) Ya know I was thinkin' Yeats? 'til the embed at the bottom! GK Edited October 10, 2012 by gerrykleier Please don't quote the directly preceding pot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) I say hold onto your core knowledge and share only with the most trusted. I don't think it is a good idea to have public accessible databases of eyewitness testimony and details that would be pranksters and hoaxers can use. I don't think it is a good idea to have 3D models of tracks and casts. A person with CNC capability could easily cut plugs from those files... Making it seem that finally there is proof that repeat tracks are being found regularly. This is 2012. The technology available today can accomplish almost anything... That is why the first order of business for the skeptical crowd is to cast as much doubt on the past as they can before showing what can be done now. And this from DDA above, is eventually what will happen.. Field researchers will stop sharing any information of any kind... Don't blame the researchers.. There may be no law stopping hoaxers - but there is no law that states field researchers must discuss what they do or what evidence they have collected. Edited October 10, 2012 by Melissa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Hoaxers should be outted, sure. And child molestors should be lynched, but vigilantes tend to get the wrong guy even more than courts, I bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BFSleuth Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Hoax me once, shame on you. Hoax me twice, and you're going down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 That video is a trip. It looks like the cat is almost flying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 IMHO Hoaxers are equivalent to thieves. Whenever I've had something stolen, I don't just think about the value of whatever it is that I lost, I think about the time I spent sweating and stressing to earn that money. When someone finds out they have spent money and time researching something that wasn't authentic, that person has been robbed of their time and resources. It is also certainly frustrating and potentially embarrassing for someone like Meldrum, who is already sticking their neck out by publicly endorsing the research. If it weren't for hoaxers, we would probably be much farther along in our understanding of Sasquatch because the combined efforts of countless investigators would have been spent only investigating legitimate evidence over decades. By far the worst, the very lowest of the hoaxers are the Bigfooters who stage false claims for personal gain, even though they believe the animals actually exist. To these folks I say, “I wouldn’t **** on you if you were on fire you pathetic weasels!†Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 My initial response to this is an overwhelming yes. However, there are differences between a kid dressing up in a suit and running across a highway on Halloween night and someone making a concerted effort to fool scientific research for fun or personal gain. All researchers can do is document the information and remain as objective as possible. People who have been demonstrated to be liars or hoaxers should probably be outed and ignored. Dishonorable people aren't worth the effort of retaliation. Frankly, the kind of karma you are calling upon yourself by hoaxing is pretty low and believe me, what you put out there you will get back at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 And this from DDA above, is eventually what will happen.. Field researchers will stop sharing any information of any kind... Don't blame the researchers.. There may be no law stopping hoaxers - but there is no law that states field researchers must discuss what they do or what evidence they have collected. Absolutely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I agree with DDA. I know I won't be doing much sharing in the future. It's simply not worth it. DR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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