N A W A C - Field Study Discussion

[Guest]

1. Ungulates all had their necks broken very aggressively at the C1/C2 joint;

2. The hides appeared to be pulled off the thoracic and upper abdominal portion of the carcasses like 'peeling a banana'

 

As far as I'm aware, we haven't found anything like that.

Bipto....A point of clarification if you wouldn't mind. I could have sworn you said somewhere up-thread that BB's were NOT showing up on your game cameras in Area X, or did I misunderstand or disremember that comment?  Thanks.

 

Oh no. We have lots and lots of pictures of black bears. Also, many other critters that roam the area. Just not that one we're looking for. 

[Drew]

Bipto

Sorry, can't remember if this has been asked or answered before -

Have any carcasses / animal kills been found around the area? Been reading up on John Mionczynski who reported that some kills he found all showed evidence of two distinctive anomalies:

1. Ungulates all had their necks broken very aggressively at the C1/C2 joint;

2. The hides appeared to be pulled off the thoracic and upper abdominal portion of the carcasses like 'peeling a banana'

Just wondered if anything similar had been found in or around X?

Many thanks.

 

That describes bear kills of Elk calves point by point.  John Mionczynski would know this.

 

Most often they maneuver to approach over the back, after which they grab the animal around the rib-cage and, if successful, deliver a 

killing bite to the back of the neck or skull.

 

 

http://sbsc.wr.usgs.gov/cprs/research/projects/grizzly/pdf/FORAGINGBEHAVIOROFNORTHAMERICANBEARS.pdf

 

 

: Elk calves killed by bears typically result in a “banana peel†appearance.

http://www.cesu.umn.edu/prod/groups/cfans/@pub/@cfans/@cesu/documents/asset/cfans_asset_362075.pdf

 

 

I'm not saying Wood Apes don't do those things, but if you find those things, they are far more likely to be from the numerous bears in the area.

[Guest DWA]

If anybody would know, it's Mionczynski; and he rules out bears.  I go with him.

[norseman]

I think the difference is that john was talking about adult elk and not calves.

[Drew]

How would a Bigfoot break or crush the 1st or 2nd vertebrae of an adult elk?

Any speculation on that? a 600 lb ape-man grabbing onto a 700 pound elk and giving it a twist?\

 

Parkie-

You should start a thread on this.

 

Edited to add: Adult Male Cougars in NW Oregon Kill Elk, 14% of which are adults.  Cougars crush the cervical vertebrate,  A black bear coming upon an Elk killed by another animal, could still banana peel it.  They grab the skin with their teeth, and push off with their fore limbs in a jerking motion, and the skin peels right off.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Drew

[Guest DWA]

I'd submit that it's equally amazing how a mountain lion - which I'd never put in a steel cage match with a sasquatch - kills an elk.

 

When one doesn't know, confirming the animal is the first step.  So let's do that.

[WSA]

The most likely mechanism of injury for a C1/C2 fracture would be hyper extension and/or flexion, with torsion. Think: Sitting astride the animal and pulling its head back, assisted by pushing up on lower mandible, with a twist.   This has been observed and recounted. Most undulates also have nice handles for quick and easy grasping by those with opposable thumbs(watch those tines though)!  I'm betting Hairy would scoreboard one hell of a time in the steer bulldogging event. 

[dmaker]

I'd submit that it's equally amazing how a mountain lion - which I'd never put in a steel cage match with a sasquatch - kills an elk.

 

When one doesn't know, confirming the animal is the first step.  So let's do that.

I would imagine that speed, stealth and very sharp claws and teeth have quite a bit to do with it.  

 

My money would be on the cougar. 

[Cotter]

Mas Oyama fought 52 ungulates....Though they were bull-ringed...but still.

[Airdale]

I'm thinking sasquatch and mountain lion would likely avoid each other. Imagine an athletic 250# adult human against a 40# lynx or bobcat; regardless of the result the misery would simply not be worth it.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Airdale

[norseman]

How would a Bigfoot break or crush the 1st or 2nd vertebrae of an adult elk?

Any speculation on that? a 600 lb ape-man grabbing onto a 700 pound elk and giving it a twist?\

Parkie-

You should start a thread on this.

Edited to add: Adult Male Cougars in NW Oregon Kill Elk, 14% of which are adults. Cougars crush the cervical vertebrate, A black bear coming upon an Elk killed by another animal, could still banana peel it. They grab the skin with their teeth, and push off with their fore limbs in a jerking motion, and the skin peels right off.

It's all explained in johns interview that was posted up just a while ago...

[Guest]

If anybody would know, it's Mionczynski; and he rules out bears. I go with him.

Argument from authority. The papers Drew posted show different but you only believe your patron saints.

 

I think the difference is that john was talking about adult elk and not calves

Adult brown bears can kill adult elk.

[Guest zenmonkey]

How would a Bigfoot break or crush the 1st or 2nd vertebrae of an adult elk?

Any speculation on that? a 600 lb ape-man grabbing onto a 700 pound elk and giving it a twist?\

 

Parkie-

You should start a thread on this.

 

Edited to add: Adult Male Cougars in NW Oregon Kill Elk, 14% of which are adults.  Cougars crush the cervical vertebrate,  A black bear coming upon an Elk killed by another animal, could still banana peel it.  They grab the skin with their teeth, and push off with their fore limbs in a jerking motion, and the skin peels right off.

I studied mainly apes in biology I'm betting a chimp could manage that task. Yes it is impressive to say the least!

[Guest DWA]

Hmmm.  Let's look at Mionczynski's credentials....hmmmmmm....wildlife biologist....hmmmmm...most of whose experience is biologizing....hmmmmmm....large animals of the intermountain West.

 

If anybody is going against his assessment....I wanna see the proof they're right.  Or they aren't.

I'd suggest reading this thread and considering the flat raging mountain of additional circumstantial evidence.

 

(Besides that bears are never recorded as killing, or eating, in the way described.)

 

http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/44591-possible-sasquatch-anomalies/

[Skookum Chuck]

Agreed 100% WSA.   I'll just say that the reports or "stories" of aggressive, predatory incidents are a little harder to find sometimes.....but they are out there if you look.   I think they get less attention because even interested people regard them as less than believable as compared to your run of the mill bigfoot sighting.