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N A W A C - Field Study Discussion


slabdog

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When I was younger, my brother who happens to be a genius, and I mean that quite literally, as in 160+ or something (just so you have

an idea of what I was dealing with) would challenge me on why I held a belief in this or that, the subject matter is not relative so it does not

matter, but he would always find a very strong argument against what it was I would be contending to be true.  This went on for years and years

and at times would stress out surrounding family members on holidays and such, we always engaged in the battle not taking anything personal,

but looking at the arguments for how they stood or toppled, and would throw as many monkey wrenches at each other as we could gather up.

Why I say that is because there is something truly good about a well constructed argument, whether or not you happen to agree with the argument.

That is kind of how I look at this forum, an intelligent discussion and sometimes heated debate, but unlike those jousting matches with my brother

it seems things turn personal.  I never once felt that my arguments with my brother were at all personal, it was purely intellectual in nature.  If the

naysayers can rise to that level, then I say we address them with all the vigor they deserve.  Unfortunately as already pointed out the doubters are

committing the number one fatal error in true debate, that is to turn the issue into something personal.....just my thoughts.....for the greater part I appreciate

the skeptics such as Dmaker and others for some pretty solid argumentation, which in my mind only sharpens my own arguments and thinking.  So

I hope we can continue to discuss the matters that are relative and productive within this thread, and if need be those who want some real debate can

be debated, perhaps not Brian's worry, but those not deserving of our energy ignored. 

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Bipto

I can say that it is hard work trying to get a shot at one of these creatures.They sure as heck do not make it easy nor will they willing to give you the time or day to give you that shot. Now knowing what you know about them and their movements and the way that they attack you do you believe that you will have or get a chance at them this year ? Now how they operate in the field, your tactics will have to be changed and the way you set up your people will safety be a greater concern as well ?

You know where I stand with these creatures that you call wood apes, and understand that I have had encounters that are different from others have reported. Has your team reported any strange events that you would be willing to go public with ? If not you may pm me and you can be certain of the confidentiality of your report. I apologize if I have ever been harsh on this thread. I wish your team good luck and that they may be safe in the field .

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Bipto can you give any hint about when this years operation will start?

 

We usually start in early summer. 

Now knowing what you know about them and their movements and the way that they attack you do you believe that you will have or get a chance at them this year ?

Sure. We learn more every year. We were 1/4" from our objective last year and our position will only get better based on our experience. Of course, there's no guarantee in any of this. Will we have a chance? Yes. Will our chance be better than last year? Definitely. Will we succeed? Unknown.

Also, they rarely do anything that would qualify as an "attack." I don't know for certain we've ever been attacked. The closest we've come may have only been a bluff charge. No way to know, really, except that the discharge of a rifle sent the critter scurrying in the opposite direction post haste.

Now how they operate in the field, your tactics will have to be changed and the way you set up your people will safety be a greater concern as well ?

The safety of our members is paramount and something we discuss on a regular basis. We want to accomplish our objective with the minimal amount of risk. There are a lot of variable, though, and too many unknowns to know for certain how things will go down.

Has your team reported any strange events that you would be willing to go public with ?

Not a single thing that makes us think they're anything other than apes with orang-level intelligence.

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You know on the reality cop shows when the helicopter comes in with infra red and they show the bad guys hiding in the brush?  You guys need to find someone with money who can afford to call one in when you have your wood apes acting up around you.  That would seal the deal I would think.

 

t.

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Agreed. In fact, it's something we'd considered before (helicopter support). There are many drawbacks, the biggest being the enormous cost of having a chopper on 24/7 alert.

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Guest Stan Norton

Semi-permanent blimp or balloon? I've deployed automated bat detectors beneath tethered balloons before, to a height of 50m.

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Guest Stan Norton

Sounds like a good fit for Meldrum's derigible idea.

Nothing so extravagant. Just an ordinary advertising blimp or decent weather balloon with a thermal camera rig beneath it. Tethered above some clearing with a good all round view.

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I've always thought long range observation could be a way forward. It's hypothesized that they can see or detect IR, based on NAWACs previous camera setup around the cabin, and camera traps generally, but there must be a limit to this with regard to distance one would imagine. I'm intrigued by the idea of a tethered balloon high above the cabin carrying an IR camera to track their movements monitored live from the ground.

Presumably much more financially and logistically viable than a chopper, but in terms of other specifics I've no idea. How high would one theorize that it should be not to spook them? I don't know. Maybe if it were set up and it made them stay away then it could keep being raised higher until it didn't...who knows!? How high is Meldrum's dirigible being proposed to fly? At least you know the animals are there as opposed to Meldrum's blimp trying to find them.

An idea worth exploring, if only by others instead of NAWAC? Or fanciful nonsense?!

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Guest Stan Norton

There would presumably be height restrictions imposed by the civil aviation authorities, but otherwise I would think that a height of several tens of metres would be sufficient. Such an odd object may anyway act as an attraction...? The issue may be with the strength of the tether. I've used nylon cord which survived several days in a sheep filled field! 

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Nothing so extravagant. Just an ordinary advertising blimp or decent weather balloon with a thermal camera rig beneath it. Tethered above some clearing with a good all round view.

 

Yeah, when the crew is in the cabin and the rocks start flying, if you could let a tethered ballon of some sort go from inside with a thermal camera attached high enough to monitor a couple of acres or so.  (I really don't know what I'm talking about because I'm not familiar with the equipment or technology.)  I've always maintained though that it's technology that will one day solve this issue.  We have it now but 99% of us can't afford what's required and the 1% aren't sharing.

 

t.

Edited by Terry
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In Oklahoma, I would imagine that an ape living there, would have insulating fur in the winter, and have to shed it's coat for the extremely hot summers.

 

In the winter they may be harder to pick up on FLIR because of the insulating factor holding in some of the heat signature.

 

In the summer, I'd guess that most of the heat is allowed to escape from the body, the summers there are extremely hot and muggy.  You'd have an ape suffering from heat stroke if you chased one in August, you wouldn't have to catch it, just stay close to it and keep it moving until it quits.   Maybe bring a chase dog to the site

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