N A W A C - Field Study Discussion

[Lake County Bigfooot]

I live on a marsh in Northeast Ill.

For obvious reasons I try not to

give away my exact location, but

Lake County Ill, We have several hundred

acres of marsh that adjoins other wetlands

lakes and a river, mixed forest, and

farmland, but also about 10,000 folks

in my town. I am in an unincorporated area

and routinely see deer, coyotes, and we

have had gray wolves and a cougar sighted

in my area, last year I also documented a

black bear print. This marsh is particularly

isolated, wrapped with thick brush on the east,

mixed hardwoods on west and south, and 4

properties including mine on the north.

My guess is the tubers from the cat tails

are a possible food source. The marsh is home

to a heron rookery and there is a mud reclamation

area on east that has shell fish routinely dug

from the lake bottom. So the recording is

from my backyard facing the marsh in stereo,

it sounds like the sound comes from about

75 yards to the east, that I cannot say with

much certainty though. Conditions, before

5 am Nov 24th, temp teens, and windy, overcast,

obviously still dark. If it came from that area

there are thin line of trees next to a high bank

and cattails, oh and about 30 goose carcasses.

It is possible that it is simply a goose, but

I have never had any problem distinguishing

the geese in the past.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Lake County Bigfooot

[Lake County Bigfooot]

I need something closer

more definitive, I cannot

say for certain that this

is not just some anomaly of

recording a goose. Back

to the drawing board......

I keep going back and forth

in my mind, drives you nuts.

However, the whoops we heard in

July left no room for any doubt,

except for very talented humans

running around whooping at 3:50am

Throwing myself under the bus

Edited November 26, 2013 by Lake County Bigfooot

[Guest DWA]

We are absolutely committed to this work. We will not give up and no amount of internet doubting will change our course. If you have constructive criticism, I'm more than happy to hear it. If you have suggestions and ideas you think could help, bring it. If you want to accuse us of having "only stories" when I've already said as much myself...well, it's a free country. If the admins of this site think it's OK for some to keep doing that again and again, I'll have to eventually weigh the hassle of dealing with it against whatever value everyone else gets out of this exchange (including me and the NAWAC).

Well, I for one (and I mentioned this to Derek Randles in connection with his thermal over on that thread) applaud "open science," and I am starting to think that it's gonna have trouble thriving here if the pointless uninformed brickbats continue.  If we lose the kind of thing you are doing we lose my reason for being here.

[Guest Stan Norton]

I have come to the firm opinion that threads such as this, which enable rational discussion of practical options are the only ones worth looking at. I'm clearly not the only one who is bored with the endless and ultimately meaningless 'debate' around exist/not exist. I will try to resist adding fuel to that dung fire in future. Onward and upward!

[Cotter]

^Agreed, double plusses there folks.

[hiflier]

Hello All,

 

^ Count me in there too.

[the parkie]

Brian,

It seems that on occasion some of these creatures have been bold enough to leave the dense cover to make contact with the tin of the hut e.g. slapping, banging or shunting it. Is there any scope in using adhesive pads or anti-vandal paint on the hut exterior as a means of obtaining hair or contact prints. Might be a relatively inexpensive way of getting some evidence.

 

Yeah, a similar thing occurred to me when I heard / read about the destruction of the new 'hide' in the NAWAC's absence. Am I right in recalling that it was tampered with once and then completely destroyed on a second occasion, Bipto? This predictability is the NAWAC's friend and could be taken advantage of as Stan says.

[Cotter]

^That is my recollection, they had the tarp/tent thing torn down a bit, with some rock that had apparently been tossed/placed on the tent.  The team left, came back a couple/few weeks later and it was then completely flattened.

[Guest Stan Norton]

Yep. I think the guys and gals are all too aware that the most effective strategy is to let the action come to them and at any rate that tactic seems to be working well. As a wise person once said : "slowly slowly catchee monkey".

[the parkie]

Yes, my recollection too, glad I'm not going gaga!

 

The other 'predictability' or advantage that I also recall, is that I'm sure it has been observed by the NAWAC that the creatures do not seem able to discern the difference between how many team members enter a structure and how many exit it. I can't remember if this advantage has been utilized as yet though - has it?

 

This, coupled with the enhanced probability and predictability of an approach if they think a structure is unmanned, would obviously further tip the scales a few more degrees in the NAWAC's direction.

 

Sorry if this has already been discussed here or on a podcast. It has been a while since I listened to episode 54 and I have not yet had time to listen to episodes 55 or 56.

Edited November 27, 2013 by the parkie

[Guest]

Am I right in recalling that it was tampered with once and then completely destroyed on a second occasion, Bipto? This predictability is the NAWAC's friend and could be taken advantage of as Stan says.

 

Yes, the Overwatch tent had been mostly wrecked but was salvageable so we patched it up and put it to use. A few weeks later, we found it to be totally destroyed. Currently formulating a new strategy for next year. 

 

The consistency of their actions and insatiable curiosity will be what allows us to document them. I'm sure of it. 

Hey Bipto,

 

I recorded this earlier this week in my marsh...

 

We've discussed this amongst ourselves and passed the recording along to our ornithological experts at Cornell. The consensus is that it's likely the call of a long-eared owl. Possibly a young one. 

[Lake County Bigfooot]

Thanks Bipto, I have not listened to a long Eared Owl, and I did not

know we had them, I knew of Barred, Snowy, Great Horned, and Screech

in the marsh and Barn, but not the Long Eared, I'll give it a listen.

I still do not think anything besides primates could have had the conversation

I heard earlier in the summer.  The whoops were just to humanish sounding

like with inflections, so you sort of got the idea of one questioning.

[Guest]

Keep it up, man. You're out there doing your thing. That's a lot more than most. 

Also, of course, we could be wrong. But that's what it sounds like to us. Bird, not primate. This is the fundamental problem with sounds when you can't see what made them when you recorded them. Ultimately, inconclusive. Even our own. 

[Lake County Bigfooot]

Yah its A HUGE task of elimination

The inflection of what I heard this summer

was like rising to whooooeeeep,

but you would swear it was human, and then

an emphatic whoo  came from about 50 yards

away, but all this was at ground level, and you

could tell they were moving off towards my marsh,

that repeated then a cop drove by shining a spot

light, all a 3:50am, he stopped and shined the

light into the yards for a minute then left.  I think

he alerted them and they fled, but because they

were separated the younger one was asking what

to do.  But they definitely sounded human or primate,

my wife and I heard the same younger one, I say

younger because the tone was higher, and it was going off

whoop whoop whoop really excited, and we both said who

is that kid doing that sound, because there are no kids

living nearby, it was reacting to my neighbor lighting

off fireworks on the fourth of July, moving around in

the marsh going off, for at least 5 minutes.  I told

my wife that if I ever heard that in the middle of the

night I would suspect it was something else then fast forward 8 days

without hearing them it would be hard to explain,

had I not had a little Sasquatch exposure I would

have been outside looking for kids messing around

I would have never thought owl, just humans.

We have been birders and always paid attention

to the sounds around us, so It was odd to say the least

Edited November 27, 2013 by Lake County Bigfooot

[Guest Stan Norton]

Yes, my recollection too, glad I'm not going gaga!

The other 'predictability' or advantage that I also recall, is that I'm sure it has been observed by the NAWAC that the creatures do not seem able to discern the difference between how many team members enter a structure and how many exit it. I can't remember if this advantage has been utilized as yet though - has it?

This, coupled with the enhanced probability and predictability of an approach if they think a structure is unmanned, would obviously further tip the scales a few more degrees in the NAWAC's direction.

Sorry if this has already been discussed here or on a podcast. It has been a while since I listened to episode 54 and I have not yet had time to listen to episodes 55 or 56.

Yep. The old 'two in one out' approach works a treat when using a hide during cannon netting sessions to catch waders! And before anyone makes a bird brain quip, plenty of scientific evidence suggests that birds are extremely intelligent. On a par with many primates I am sure.