Guest Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Our only chance against Bigfoot is to pretend to be much more dangerous than we are. Loud roaring, aggressive behavior, firm stance, refusal to back down, etc. etc. Bigfoot might realize it's not worth doing battle, and would retreat. If Bigfoot was hellbent and determined on attacking a human, then Bigfoot wins 10 times out of 10. My personal opinion is that humans had to have conquered Sasquatch at some point in history. Same with just about every apex predator. It is known that humans have done battle with lions, bears, Neanderthals, etc. throughout history. It is why we currently rule the world. It is my belief that mankind's greatest challenge came against Gigantopithecus, or something similar. A similarly structured ape with the physical advantage, but the intelligence advantage going to humans. I imagine it would have been a long, bloody, and very close battle with humans just barely coming out on top and pushing the opposing species to the brink of extinction. If these Bigfoot reports are of the last remaining individuals of that species, chances are they would have evolved to avoid humans. It is highly likely that Bigfoot and humans can't coexist, and both sides have done their part to ensure that. I can't help but think that if all of these battles had occurred, would we not have some written or oral stories to back up these battles, especially among the NAs. Perhaps as wide spread as these creatures are, a lot of the conflicts could have been reported, but a BF may not have been mentioned nor named as the culprit/killer, whatever or however the attack occurred.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) Um, yeah, who said they don't? There are a small handful of disappearances I've followed up on over the years, a few near me, where some things just don't fit. I don't like to talk about them specifically because the wounds are still open for the families, and the last thing I want to do is start that kind of rumor. But, there are a few cases that seem safe to talk about because they already have been made associated with BF. Thing is, they can't be verified. This is one IBS Report (International Bigfoot Society) that allegedly occurred relatively close to where I had one of my encounters. The Forest Service Guard Station talked about in the report as it related to the coordinates also existed. The elevation is correct. The proximity of towns is correct. The bigfoot investigator was also a real person, unfortunately now deceased. I also talked with Ray Crowe about it because these type of cases interest me and I wanted to find out if there was anything else he knew. I asked some of the Forest Service workers I knew who were around back then on that District, but they had nothing to volunteer. Really, this one is close to home for me. I even put ads in the Reno Craigslist in trying to find the women, but no luck. IBS Report #: 1432 Location: county, OR. United States Sighting Type: 1 Latitude: +044˚ 37' N Longitude: 121˚ 48' W Day: Month: Year: 1976 OR 1977 Time: Elevation: 5000 Data Source: TR20 Credibility: 1 Locality: CASCADES, GUESS MT JEFFERSON WILDERNESS AREA Researcher: RICH GRUMLEY Witness: GIRLS HIKING Sighting Type: 1 Summary: 9-10 FT BF ATTACKS MAN, TEARS HIM APART, SHOTS FIRED Sighting Text: OR TR20 * I'd like to comment on something from your July 24 newsletter: "the article where the Troutdale, Or., grocery store had posted a sign, "Beware of Bigfoot," says Rich Grumley, Director of the California Bigfoot Organization. During the latter part of 1979 I was working as a security Guard in the Barbary Coast casino and Hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada, packing a gun. I don't know how many of your readers know, but only "one" security guard per shift packs a gun at that casino and as "I shoot straight," I was "it." Anyway I met a "fine" looking lady that was a Keno Runner and I told her of my interest in Bigfoot, etc., and she told me, "that in about 1976 or 1977, she and several other girls from Vegas had gone to Oregon to go hiking in the forest. They had a "macho" looking (male) guide who led them up the trails (carried what I think was a Winchester lever action 30-.30 carbine for "bears" I think she said!)." Several hours up the trail, "something BIG" (an estimated 9 or 10 feet tall, "at least," she said), came walking downhill on it's hind legs toward them "through the brush and trees," and the guide opened "fire" on this "thing." She said that he fired 5 or 6 times and it didn't even slow this thing down, and it grabbed him and tore him apart. Then it turned and "walked" briskly on it's hind "feet" (never dropping to all fours at any time during the fight or escape) into the forest. One of the girls "ran" down the mountain to the Forest Ranger's office for help. Forest Rangers arrived "IN FORCE" a couple hours later with a helicopter, etc. And the rangers rushed everyone off the mountain, including "other hikers" and "grilled ALL the girls in the hiking party for approximately 7 hours," trying to†Convince" them that what they had seen was a bear. But the girl that told me the story said that she "maintained" that she had seen "many bears" in the zoo and in the wilds, and "WHAT THEY SAW WAS NO BEAR!" She also said that the respective Forest Rangers invited her to NEVER COME BACK! 8/31/92 follow - up, ed. ...as I recall , the woman that told me the story and "claimed" to be part of the group of girls that that had happened to, said, "that the THING tore him limb from branch and he was more dead than alive when the forest rangers (ARMED TO THE TEETH, with what she later identified to me as M-16 machine guns) took him by chopper off the mountain," but the girls in that party "never" did hear if he lived or "died!" Also, I'm sure that the girl told me the name of the mountain, and/or mountain range, but that was 1979 and I'll be damned if I can remember "exactly" where she said it was! Maybe under hypnosis I "might" remember, but that would be a long shot! Rich Grumley OR TR20" There was another case up in Washington where a man and woman were camping. I can't remember all the details now nor can I find the report, someone will. Anyway they were camping and I think she stepped outside the tent and there was a bigfoot. She started screaming and in its panic, it just began ripping her apart as a way of quieting her screaming. Its a very gruesome story. Like I say, I have followed some missing person reports near me on public land where massive searches took place. Some things just don't add up with their disappearances. Some evidence of their remains should have been found. While I feel that most of them are benevolent, like us, there are some bad apples. Rogues if you will. In the PNW, there's lots of room for them to exist and take the occasional human. Edited March 31, 2011 by PragmaticTheorist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest COGrizzly Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Nice stuff PT. I think they do from time to time. Pearl Creek incident in camp hale... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tracker Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 IMO they do on rare occassions. After all were a competing clan and pred. If a rifle doesn't stop one, then try a hunting knife up into the armpit when it reaches for you. You may not survive but it will think twice before attacking a human again. I hope no one is offended by a tiny little combat tip. JMO. tracker out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sallaranda Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I can't help but think that if all of these battles had occurred, would we not have some written or oral stories to back up these battles, especially among the NAs. Perhaps as wide spread as these creatures are, a lot of the conflicts could have been reported, but a BF may not have been mentioned nor named as the culprit/killer, whatever or however the attack occurred.. I expect that if my hypothesis is correct, then the proverbial battle would have occurred several thousand years ago. Before civilization, before sophisticated language, before hieroglyphics, etc. I've done a fair bit of work with timelines and trying to get a better sense of how everything could have played out. Logically, it makes most sense that this "battle" occurred precisely 60, 000 years ago. Many scientists are in agreement that humans became cultural and behaviorally "modern" roughly 50, 000 years ago. That leaves 10, 000 years between the battle and the time where sophisticated language was first used. Basically, it would be relatively easy to explain how these battles occurred without some sort of written or oral stories to back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I think they realize we are smarter than they. They know we carry weapons. They've seen us use them. More importantly, they probably realize that if a human goes missing, many more humans will be out there searching. The last thing they want is for us to invade their secluded and safe territory even more than we do now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 i wonder if any hunters have died of a heart attack, after encountering a bigfoot in the woods? ive read of hunters being found killed by heart attacks many times. Now thia wouldn't surprise me all. The first time a ruffed grouse unexpectedly flushed in front of me I darned near had a heart attack, and I was about 12... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Now this wouldn't surprise me all. The first time a ruffed grouse unexpectedly flushed in front of me I darned near had a heart attack, and I was about 12... BTW PT, great story and thanks for posting it up. Those kind of incident reports/stories really make a guyy think, particularly when he spends as much time out in the bush as I have since my childhood. Thats why this kind of nags at me, I wonder how many times (if any) a booger could have nailed my over the years, and if one had the chance, why not?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 If I could only talk about a few of the ones that have more recently caught my interest, but they are just too sensitive to discuss. Something to keep in mind about the IBS one is that the bigfoot was merely defending itself against the guide who began shooting at it. But that's the very situation I believe happens much more often then we know about. It is also the same situation I was drawn into when he cut me off on the trail. Had I not had the experiences I've had over the decades with them, I too probably would have naively started shooting at him. Instead, I spoke calmly to him as I approached him, and from there he allowed my dog and I pass. I too had a 30-30 rifle and I know beyond all doubt that had I shot, I would not be here today. Which reminds me, there is also another story that was probably on the old bff of a few hunters in the field and one shot at a bigfoot. Well the other bigfoot caught up to them as they were trying to escape, and killed and took the one who shot, bending his rifle in a circle. And let the other hunter go. Of course probably just a tale right? Actually I think this is the repeating type of events that have been responsible for a number of hunter disappearances. Hunter in the woods sees a bigfoot, for whatever reason he shoots thinking he will bag one or out of fear. Only to discover that his weapon really has little affect other then to royally **** off the individual. Before you know it, you've got another missing hunter and no sign. Again, I believe this to be the case because it almost happened to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyO Posted March 31, 2011 SSR Team Share Posted March 31, 2011 Different people do things for different reasons. What's realistic to one might not be realistic to someone else. It's all a matter of perspective. Absolutely, but i'll be on the side of the people that think that BF's don't kill poeple because people call them Monkey's or because they don't like having to dodge Human BF " Hunters " with Camera's or because they know that those same Human's are hunting them to be used as a Scientific Specimen.. IF they do kill people, i very much doubt it's for those reasons.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobZenor Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 It is also very strange for an ape, hominid or not, to be nocturnal. The reasons are probably the same as why they don't kill people. Our ancestors probably forced them into remote locations and even the times of day when they could be up and about. Any of them that were too aggressive were killed. Confronting humans is very dangerous. They almost always do it at night or behind cover. I doubt they actually realize what modern humans are capable of. They are probably taught that people are very dangerous and need to be avoided. I would imagine that some have tested boundaries and males when provoked could be capable of almost anything. It seems surprising to me that they would have remained so well behaved and I don't necessarily think they haven't killed several people in the last 100 years. I think about mountain lions the same way. It amazes me that hundreds of people haven't been killed by mountain lions. They are just dumb cats with very little time learning from mom how to hunt yet they learn to avoid humans and some humans are really easy targets. My brother Jim walked up on some guy in the mountains of Orange County (lat/long 33.745051,-117.544095) and there was a mountain lion that wouldn't let that guy back on the trail until it saw my brother. The cat seemed to be sizing up the thoroughly frightened hiker for diner. I walked within a quarter mile from where a mountain lion had just killed a guy the morning before at Whiting ranch and a girl was attacked and almost killed a couple of hours latter. Still, they rarely attack humans. It seems to be fundamental to animals to recognize the apex predator and not poke the bear with a stick as the saying goes. Most wild animals seem to have behaviors that protect them from the most dangerous animals. We as modern humans have learned to live with some dangerous animals as well. We don't poke the bear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Um, yeah, who said they don't? There are a small handful of disappearances I've followed up on over the years, a few near me, where some things just don't fit. I don't like to talk about them specifically because the wounds are still open for the families, and the last thing I want to do is start that kind of rumor. But, there are a few cases that seem safe to talk about because they already have been made associated with BF. Thing is, they can't be verified. This is one IBS Report (International Bigfoot Society) that allegedly occurred relatively close to where I had one of my encounters. The Forest Service Guard Station talked about in the report as it related to the coordinates also existed. The elevation is correct. The proximity of towns is correct. The bigfoot investigator was also a real person, unfortunately now deceased. I also talked with Ray Crowe about it because these type of cases interest me and I wanted to find out if there was anything else he knew. I asked some of the Forest Service workers I knew who were around back then on that District, but they had nothing to volunteer. Really, this one is close to home for me. I even put ads in the Reno Craigslist in trying to find the women, but no luck. *rest snipped for space* Holy Cats, Prag! You have something archived from the now-defunct IBS lists? Cool! They had a lot of interesting sightings abstracted. Too bad the content was sold and taken off line... Anyways, I am amazed at the OP question. It is rediculously easy to find multiple reports of violent, even fatal man/bf encounters, several of them considered "classics" of the field, including: Chetco Indian Devil Teddy Roosevelt/Baumann story Ape Canyon Fort Hill (aka Fort Hell) 1940s (this one seems to have dropped off the radar, but we used to have posts about it on the old forum). It is entirely inaccurate to assert that there have been no violent/fatal reports of human/bf encounters. The IBS files had a lot of abstracts about violent bf as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I can't help but think that if all of these battles had occurred, would we not have some written or oral stories to back up these battles, especially among the NAs. Perhaps as wide spread as these creatures are, a lot of the conflicts could have been reported, but a BF may not have been mentioned nor named as the culprit/killer, whatever or however the attack occurred.. The NAs DO tell a lot of stories about their various BF figures that feature violence and conflict, child snatching, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Nice stuff PT. I think they do from time to time. Pearl Creek incident in camp hale... CO...long time no hear from...is that the one with the missing 10th Mountain soldier where they only found the bloody pack and footprints? I may have been misidentifying it in my posts if it is... And didn't you post a lot about it on the old forum and this one as well awhile back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) It is also very strange for an ape, hominid or not, to be nocturnal. The reasons are probably the same as why they don't kill people. Our ancestors probably forced them into remote locations and even the times of day when they could be up and about. Any of them that were too aggressive were killed. Confronting humans is very dangerous. They almost always do it at night or behind cover. I doubt they actually realize what modern humans are capable of. They are probably taught that people are very dangerous and need to be avoided. I would imagine that some have tested boundaries and males when provoked could be capable of almost anything. It seems surprising to me that they would have remained so well behaved and I don't necessarily think they haven't killed several people in the last 100 years. I think about mountain lions the same way. It amazes me that hundreds of people haven't been killed by mountain lions. They are just dumb cats with very little time learning from mom how to hunt yet they learn to avoid humans and some humans are really easy targets. My brother Jim walked up on some guy in the mountains of Orange County (lat/long 33.745051,-117.544095) and there was a mountain lion that wouldn't let that guy back on the trail until it saw my brother. The cat seemed to be sizing up the thoroughly frightened hiker for diner. I walked within a quarter mile from where a mountain lion had just killed a guy the morning before at Whiting ranch and a girl was attacked and almost killed a couple of hours latter. Still, they rarely attack humans. It seems to be fundamental to animals to recognize the apex predator and not poke the bear with a stick as the saying goes. Most wild animals seem to have behaviors that protect them from the most dangerous animals. We as modern humans have learned to live with some dangerous animals as well. We don't poke the bear. Isuppose I should modify my question for the hair splitters in the crowd; Why dont monkees kill us MORE OFTEN... But I digress... BobZ, you brought up a very familiar analogy. Our cat population has exploded in the last 10 years. Prior to that, when a cat sighting or attack on livestock was reported, NDGF dismissed it out of hand. About 5 years ago they opened the first cat season and to NDGF's slack jawed surprise the quota was taken in a month. Every ever increasing quota since was taken in maybe 8 weeks tops. A couple years ago a cat was killed by LE & NDGF in city limits of the Capitol, Bismarck. About the same time, the legislature passed a law that allowed carrying a handgun while bowhunting, as the cats in the western part of the states had gotten increasingly cheeky. As happened in California, it is only a matter of time until a human gets nailed. Cats are pretty rare in my part of the state (north central) so we have no quota during the season. I have been thinking of trying some lonesome kitty calling with the Fox Pro up in the Pembina Gorge, about an hour north of my farmstead... Edited March 31, 2011 by NDT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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