norseman Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 http://thebigfootshow.com/2014/06/15/episode-60-a-hand-and-an-arm-and-a-thong/ In the second half of the show, Brian discusses the now infamous "tree break" with Daryl. If you don't want to listen to it, boiled down to brass tacks, the tree was indeed rotten but still green. Rock throwing had been experienced just a short time before. And they heard something hit the ground and take off through the under brush. (Please, please! Not trying to open a sore wound here. Not really interested in trying to discuss the NAWAC's departure from us.) Just curious if now you know the tree was indeed rotten? If the scenario seems more plausible now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David NC Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Thanks Norseman. I suspected the inside part of the tree was damaged and just the outside was still carrying nourishment to the leaves and limbs. A tree can live a long time with the middle rotted out. We lost a 30" diameter white oak near our house about 2 years ago with only a light breeze that night and it looked healthy from the splintering at the base. We pondered it since there was no bad storm and it did not uproot which shallow rooted oaks tend to do when you have a very saturated ground and get a bad wind storm. We figured it out when we started clearing the tree. It had gotten infected on the inside by a colony of carpenter ants and they had eaten most of the interior strength of the tree and it weakened the tree to where the leverage of the canopy swaying pushed it past the point it could take. If a light wind could take down one like that then something heavy up in a tree getting the canopy started back and forth could cause the same thing. Once you get the canopy moving it would add extra leverage to the force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Thanks norseman. That explains how it fell so wasy. Rotten combined with a huge BF in it, yup sounds like it would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSA Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 When you come to a discussion with the premise of "that's impossible", or "that didn't happen", it leads you in some pretty silly directions, none of which are likely to increase knowledge or help explain puzzling circumstances. Here is a perfectly valid explanation of why an apparently healthy appearing tree could fail under stress. You don't even have to accept what that stress might have been in order to consider this as feasible. Really, it is as mundane an explanation for the tree's failure as any of us imagined at the time, and several of us made that point then. Instead of that being explored though, we disappeared down the rabbit hole built over the framework of this being presumptively impossible. What a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotta Know Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Agreed. Our discussions would benefit from a lot more "it's possible" and a lot less, "that has not been my experience so that can't possibly be." Just sayin'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UPs Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I also listened to the show a while back and while I won't go into specifics about the other thread, I have seen hardwood trees that this has happened to during very high winds associated with storms. I had to have a huge white pine taken down that was only about 20 feet from my log cabin because of carpenter ant damage at the base. It was expensive because it required a climber to cut it down in pieces and where the main trunk ended and changed into 3 smaller trunks ( about 50 ft up ), the tree was hollow inside and would have been blown down if a big storm hit. Brian's explanation was completely plausible, but we will never know if a bf was responsible for the break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockape Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 The entire problem was that Bipto brought it up here before it was properly investigated. He was wrong in his initial assessment. That is why it is important to have all available information before relating the information. I'm afraid now, some will just say they are tailoring the story to suit their purpose. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIB Posted December 3, 2014 Moderator Share Posted December 3, 2014 That is why it is important to have all available information before relating the information. Where do you suggest a person go if they have some, but not all, not enough, and they want wish to lay out what they've got and get input / brainstorm regarding what followup questions to ask to improve their information without being ridiculed by people who dismiss anything short of absolute proof? Serious question. I don't think it could happen here. MIB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelefoot Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I think it could. If the person came in with an open mind, ready to hear others opinions. For example, if I came in and said, "I saw something up in a tree, shaking it around, then the tree broke off at x inches, and I saw something run away.... What do you guys think?" Granted, I would get a bazillion questions. But if I really wanted advise, feedback, I would answer them the best I could or say, "I don't know, but I will try to find out". I don't see why that wouldn't work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted December 4, 2014 Author Share Posted December 4, 2014 The entire problem was that Bipto brought it up here before it was properly investigated. He was wrong in his initial assessment. That is why it is important to have all available information before relating the information. I'm afraid now, some will just say they are tailoring the story to suit their purpose. As I said all along it wasn't all that incredulous of a claim to start with. The question ultimately came to the health of the tree. First perception was that it's healthy and after further review it was discovered the tree was not healthy. I think many people like to be apart of the process while for others, they just want answers now. Apart from the scoffers that is. I think patience is a virtue and especially in this field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockape Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Where do you suggest a person go if they have some, but not all, not enough, and they want wish to lay out what they've got and get input / brainstorm regarding what followup questions to ask to improve their information without being ridiculed by people who dismiss anything short of absolute proof? Serious question. I don't think it could happen here. MIB You are not going to be able to go anywhere worth spending any time at and not be questioned. Tough questions help more than many think. That's what makes this forum, in my opinion, the only place that matters when discussing bigfoot, because we have a good mix of believers, scoftics and those in between. However, I think as long as someone doesn't try to say they are 100% correct and is not willing to hear anything else, they serve themselves well. I see many people here say, when tough questions are being asked, to "keep an open mind". Well, the reverse is true as well. Those offering up their story should also keep their mind open to the possibility that they are wrong. That seems to be as much a cause of trouble as the tough questions. Once you put up a wall and draw sides, the ball does not move further, and that is what we need in the BF world, something that can move forward and be more impervious to the slings and arrows. If we find something that can hold up to tough scrutiny, we will all really have something then. That said, there will always be those who refuse to believe. They are everywhere in life, they are unavoidable and indestructible. Such is life and we know life ain't easy. But then, nothing worthwhile is easy. As I said all along it wasn't all that incredulous of a claim to start with. The question ultimately came to the health of the tree. First perception was that it's healthy and after further review it was discovered the tree was not healthy. I think many people like to be apart of the process while for others, they just want answers now. Apart from the scoffers that is. I think patience is a virtue and especially in this field. In my opinion it was a mess of Bipto's own making. He did not have all of his ducks in a row before opening his mouth, and it cost him. I think it could. If the person came in with an open mind, ready to hear others opinions. For example, if I came in and said, "I saw something up in a tree, shaking it around, then the tree broke off at x inches, and I saw something run away.... What do you guys think?" Granted, I would get a bazillion questions. But if I really wanted advise, feedback, I would answer them the best I could or say, "I don't know, but I will try to find out". I don't see why that wouldn't work. Agreed chele, or a simple, I can't answer that question as hard as I have tried. Either of us could be right. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 well said rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1980squatch Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Rock is nailing it here. We went scofftic on the healthy tree incident, turns out we were right, what a shock that physics works. We did not go scofftic on Brian, or NAWAC, or area X. They claim hundreds of events it was no crime at all to be wrong about one, and no foul on us to point it out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted December 4, 2014 Author Share Posted December 4, 2014 In my opinion it was a mess of Bipto's own making. He did not have all of his ducks in a row before opening his mouth, and it cost him. It cost him nothing, but that isn't what I want to talk about here.(his departure) The bottom line is that until a body is brought in or a live specimen we will never have all the facts concerning this species. Until that day comes all we have is observations by people and some trace evidence. Some choose to debrief us at every turn, and some not at all. And some of us as listeners would rather have some news than no news at all. It's more about our perceptions than his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockape Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 ^ You asked this in your OP... Just curious if now you know the tree was indeed rotten? If the scenario seems more plausible now? My initial response is merely stating my opinion on that, which is, he screwed it up so bad it doesn't matter what he says now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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