Collection Of Voucher Specimens

[Cisco]

Yuchi1

Were you a part of the GCBRO hunt, in which a BF was wounded? I just remember reading that thread, not too long ago. The report didn't give many details about the follow up. I remember wondering why everybody just didn't stay to search for the body. The only reason I could think of was maybe because part of the group didn't believe the shooter had actually shot a BF.

As to the question at hand, and the ongoing back and forth debate; there's no right answer to this dilemma.

There are people on this forum that have seen and experienced these creatures close up and in detail. They also appear to have in depth knowledge as to their unique characteristics and behaviors. Because of this, they consider them to be near human, if not actually human.

Therefor, because these few and obviously privileged individuals, have this experience, it's expected that the rest of us poor souls, that don't happen to have these creatures living in our back yards, should simply nod our heads and accept other people's experiences as gospel?

There are some researchers that proclaim Bigfoot as a monster that's cunning and deadly. Others claim it's nothing but a leaf munching, overgrown hippie, peace loving forrest giant.

These polar views, on the same subject, are held by people that would swear on a bible they're telling the truth.

Bottom line, we either have to accept somebody else's opinions, as to what's really true about these enigmatic beings, or find another way to discover the truth, as to what BIgfoot is and is not.

Again, if you're one of the lucky few that have had regular and ongoing interaction with BF, that's great for you. The rest of us don't have this and we're very curious to find out if they're real and what makes them tick.

If that involves getting a body, by killing one with a rifle or finding one laying dead, next to a squished possum, on the side of the highway; that's likely ok with most of us, middle of the road, Bigfoot enthusiasts.

If there's a way to catch one and study it for a while, even better. Either way, all of us, who don't know; want to know! If you already know then let the rest of the 99.9% of people, that have not seen one, have a turn. Seriously we're arguing about killing something that has yet to be proven as real....

[Yuchi1]

Yuchi1

Were you a part of the GCBRO hunt, in which a BF was wounded?  Yes.  I just remember reading that thread, not too long ago. The report didn't give many details about the follow up. I remember wondering why everybody just didn't stay to search for the body. We did stay the next day and search for the body for hours however, the hunt organizer (Lansdale) then called the recovery effort off The only reason I could think of was maybe because part of the group didn't believe the shooter had actually shot a BF.  As the one initially recovering blood and stomach content evidence, hand/foot print evidence (in the creek bed)  and actually taking a shot (went high) at the entity as it ran from the blown down treetop, there was little if any doubt among the participants as to what had transpired.

As to the question at hand, and the ongoing back and forth debate; there's no right answer to this dilemma. IMO, the debate centers around those that would kill something of which they have no actual idea of what they've done until it's too late as you cannot call a bullet back once it exits the bore of the rifle.  People seeking to kill one should perhaps have a conversation with Mr. Smeja to seek his counsel as it would probably be from someone having killed something that (IMO) they wish they had refrained from so doing.

There are people on this forum that have seen and experienced these creatures close up and in detail. They also appear to have in depth knowledge as to their unique characteristics and behaviors. Because of this, they consider them to be near human, if not actually human. Food for thought.

Therefor, because these few and obviously privileged individuals, have this experience, it's expected that the rest of us poor souls, that don't happen to have these creatures living in our back yards, should simply nod our heads and accept other people's experiences as gospel?  No, however, common sense is a commodity that definitely (IMO) should be employed.

There are some researchers that proclaim Bigfoot as a monster that's cunning and deadly. Others claim it's nothing but a leaf munching, overgrown hippie, peace loving forrest giant.  As with most things, the truth often lies somewhere in the median, not on either extreme.

These polar views, on the same subject, are held by people that would swear on a bible they're telling the truth.

Bottom line, we either have to accept somebody else's opinions, as to what's really true about these enigmatic beings, or find another way to discover the truth, as to what BIgfoot is and is not.

Again, if you're one of the lucky few that have had regular and ongoing interaction with BF, that's great for you. The rest of us don't have this and we're very curious to find out if they're real and what makes them tick.

If that involves getting a body, by killing one with a rifle or finding one laying dead, next to a squished possum, on the side of the highway; that's likely ok with most of us, middle of the road, Bigfoot enthusiasts.

If there's a way to catch one and study it for a while, even better. Either way, all of us, who don't know; want to know! If you already know then let the rest of the 99.9% of people, that have not seen one, have a turn. Seriously we're arguing about killing something that has yet to be proven as real.... All I can say is that night in Louisiana, something very "real" was shot, wounded and likely died a gruesome death. The fact there were two (2) others coming to it's aid (from either flank) during our initial recovery effort indicates a community protection element was in play and just as importantly (if not moreso) the wailing and crying heard off in the distance throughout most of the night was compelling evidence of empathy/sympathy behavior which (IMO) comes from higher thinking beings.

[norseman]

Or that was the creature you and your buddy were shooting at laying out there dying from a gunshot wound screaming bloody murder. And there was probably never two more to begin with, you guys just got scared and left. That sounds more plausible........

So by your own interpretation of these creatures as humans? What does that make you? A murderer? At the very least a accomplice to murder? Barring ballistics of course as to discern whom really shot and hit what?

Did men in black suits come and interrogate you? Where you ever formally charged or convicted of a crime? No of course not.......

It's really too bad that just like Smeja what we have here is a dead ANIMAL and another wasted opportunity.............

[norseman]

Yuchi1

Were you a part of the GCBRO hunt, in which a BF was wounded? I just remember reading that thread, not too long ago. The report didn't give many details about the follow up. I remember wondering why everybody just didn't stay to search for the body. The only reason I could think of was maybe because part of the group didn't believe the shooter had actually shot a BF.

As to the question at hand, and the ongoing back and forth debate; there's no right answer to this dilemma.

There are people on this forum that have seen and experienced these creatures close up and in detail. They also appear to have in depth knowledge as to their unique characteristics and behaviors. Because of this, they consider them to be near human, if not actually human.

Therefor, because these few and obviously privileged individuals, have this experience, it's expected that the rest of us poor souls, that don't happen to have these creatures living in our back yards, should simply nod our heads and accept other people's experiences as gospel?

There are some researchers that proclaim Bigfoot as a monster that's cunning and deadly. Others claim it's nothing but a leaf munching, overgrown hippie, peace loving forrest giant.

These polar views, on the same subject, are held by people that would swear on a bible they're telling the truth.

Bottom line, we either have to accept somebody else's opinions, as to what's really true about these enigmatic beings, or find another way to discover the truth, as to what BIgfoot is and is not.

Again, if you're one of the lucky few that have had regular and ongoing interaction with BF, that's great for you. The rest of us don't have this and we're very curious to find out if they're real and what makes them tick.

If that involves getting a body, by killing one with a rifle or finding one laying dead, next to a squished possum, on the side of the highway; that's likely ok with most of us, middle of the road, Bigfoot enthusiasts.

If there's a way to catch one and study it for a while, even better. Either way, all of us, who don't know; want to know! If you already know then let the rest of the 99.9% of people, that have not seen one, have a turn. Seriously we're arguing about killing something that has yet to be proven as real....

Kathy Strain, Brian Brown and others have had FTF and are very much pro kill, they also say they are ape like. I watch the PGF and see a Ape walk across the screen. Ive seen a set of tracks in winter that if you put a man naked in the same situation he would have died from exposure.........

You cannot have your cake and eat it too........ if its a man? Then its us. Then come all of the special abilities and adaptations........ok? when does it become not us? For some people? That line will never exist! Why? Because it doesnt exist with their Poodle either.

Unfortunately for them science doesnt recognize warm and fuzzy emotions. Just the cold hard facts.

And if I'm wrong? I'm willing to accept the consequences..... but it doesnt seem that anyone has went to prison for participating in a Squatch hunt, or claiming to have shot one.

[MagniAesir]

Or that was the creature you and your buddy were shooting at laying out there dying from a gunshot wound screaming bloody murder. And there was probably never two more to begin with, you guys just got scared and left. That sounds more plausible........

So by your own interpretation of these creatures as humans? What does that make you? A murderer? At the very least a accomplice to murder? Barring ballistics of course as to discern whom really shot and hit what?

Did men in black suits come and interrogate you? Where you ever formally charged or convicted of a crime? No of course not.......

It's really too bad that just like Smeja what we have here is a dead ANIMAL and another wasted opportunity.............

Personally

I don't have any respect for a hunter that wounds an animal and doesn't do everything humanly possible to recover it.

This goes double for someone that wounds dangerous game, and exposes others to danger

[BobbyO]

All this "it looks like an ape" and "it looks like a human" is very, very subjective.

One mans black is another mans white don't forget and witness descriptions of these things are inconsistent to say the least.

For many people, their mind is biased towards saying "man" for it being upright ( human only characteristic ), and "ape" because of all the hair ( non human primate characteristic ).

Truth is, like me, the vast majority of witnesses to these things have no real qualification to say definitively what they they saw when talking about this subject.

I looked in to the eyes of one for an eternity 20 years or so back now unobstructed in broad daylight and in all honesty, I couldn't tell you if it was a man or more closer a non human primate after driving myself crazy thinking about it for all that time, to me it looked like both and looked somewhere in between maybe, that's the best I can come up with.

Neither full human or full any other species of great ape that is known anyway.

It had very human characteristics within its facial make up and structure, but not fully human.

It had other great ape characteristics nap out it too, but not fully anything I had ever seen before.

[norseman]

Your right BobbyO, it's subjective. Which is why we need proof. If the anti kill crowd had Real DNA evidence to establish this species?

There would be no need to kill one.

Personally

I don't have any respect for a hunter that wounds an animal and doesn't do everything humanly possible to recover it.

This goes double for someone that wounds dangerous game, and exposes others to danger

Agree 2000 percent!!!!

[Yuchi1]

^^^ With DJ & I apparently observing the same one (Skinny basketball player) ~26 months apart in broad daylight, my impression was a facial profile of the GEICO caveman while DJ's was that it didn't look like a modern man (all the body hair), it's face looked too human for him to pull the trigger as he observed it through a riflescope (he was deer hunting at the time) as it traversed a 40 acre meadow. Primitive human?  Dunno, however, IMO anyone with any degree of moral compass would definitely hestitate to kill one after viewing in such circumstances.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Yuchi1

[Yuchi1]

Personally

I don't have any respect for a hunter that wounds an animal and doesn't do everything humanly possible to recover it.

This goes double for someone that wounds dangerous game, and exposes others to danger

 

Nor do I for anyone that pursues killing something w/o any working knowledge of their quarry.

 

My experience (Louisiana Hunt) documents what can happen when ignorance meets egotistical greed.  Thankfully, I was able to learn from this event and begin the process to realization that simply killing something when knowledge of what the target may or may not be is very limited or nonexistent, is flat wrong on multiple fronts.

 

NAWAC's model has been used as a reference to buttress a position justifying the killing of one.  IMO, given their reputation for publishing claims and getting belligerent when questioned as well as their own published "shooting incidents" makes using them as a foundation for one's belief system as an idol with definite clay feet.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Yuchi1

[southernyahoo]

Kathy Strain, Brian Brown and others have had FTF and are very much pro kill, they also say they are ape like. I watch the PGF and see a Ape walk across the screen. Ive seen a set of tracks in winter that if you put a man naked in the same situation he would have died from exposure.........

You cannot have your cake and eat it too........ if its a man? Then its us. Then come all of the special abilities and adaptations........ok? when does it become not us? For some people? That line will never exist! Why? Because it doesnt exist with their Poodle either.

Unfortunately for them science doesnt recognize warm and fuzzy emotions. Just the cold hard facts.

And if I'm wrong? I'm willing to accept the consequences..... but it doesnt seem that anyone has went to prison for participating in a Squatch hunt, or claiming to have shot one.

 

I don't expect it's in your plans then to go straight to a law enforcement agency with your ugh...."specimen"  right?  I mean, why have any contingency for losing it to some "higher authority" if there's zero chance that it's not an animal? 

 

So long as it's not proven to exist, there is no crime right? It's not about feelings Norse, I really wish you could get past the petty attacks on the no-kill mindset and start to understand the mechanism that keeps bigfoot unproven.  It's not because people haven't ever shot at one or that they've never been hit by a vehicle.

 

You can't have it both ways either, if they are where they are reported, there's more than enough of them to have fallen in our laps by now, so just because those who see them as human-like enough to not shoot, haven't brought you a specimen, it's definitely not on their hands that it's not proven today. It's either because they present too many problems in the process of aknowledgement listing and protecting them and their environment, or they are paranormal entities that shouldn't be dealt with as wildlife to start with.

[norseman]

I don't expect it's in your plans then to go straight to a law enforcement agency with your ugh...."specimen"  right?  I mean, why have any contingency for losing it to some "higher authority" if there's zero chance that it's not an animal? 

 

So long as it's not proven to exist, there is no crime right? It's not about feelings Norse, I really wish you could get past the petty attacks on the no-kill mindset and start to understand the mechanism that keeps bigfoot unproven.  It's not because people haven't ever shot at one or that they've never been hit by a vehicle.

 

You can't have it both ways either, if they are where they are reported, there's more than enough of them to have fallen in our laps by now, so just because those who see them as human-like enough to not shoot, haven't brought you a specimen, it's definitely not on their hands that it's not proven today. It's either because they present too many problems in the process of aknowledgement listing and protecting them and their environment, or they are paranormal entities that shouldn't be dealt with as wildlife to start with.

A) There are tons of conspiracy theories out there, and while I do personally rule out that its a human being by our laws and definitions? That doesn't mean that a specimen could be siezed by wild life authorities for whatever the reason. Ive actually called US fish and game and discussed this. And have a better understanding over jurisdiction by whom for what. But if you take the discovery specimen to a accredited Biologist at a University? What is fish and game really going to say about it? Sorry you didnt have a permit to harvest the type specimen? What?

B ) Petty attacks!? I think you need to walk in my shoes for a mile............ And ask Yuchi about no body equals no crime, right?

C) They are NOT all where they are reported. Skeptics are right that people can see stuff that isnt there........but it doesnt explain it all away. Just because we have not managed to get one to a university does not mean that we have to insert paranormal or even human intelligence. Never ever understood the human argument from that standpoint......... as we rolled over some of the most stealthy intelligent humans ever to walk earth. Paranormal? Taking an unknown and replacing it with a bigger unknown??? Crazy talk.......where is the proof?

Do you guys even want the truth? I hear more excuses from your camp than a heavy set woman at a Jenny Craig convention..........

If you wanna believe that the government or UFO's are blocking the truth? Thats your perogative. But this is not how science and discovery work. If I have a FTF I know exactly how the next 24 hrs will transpire.

[Sasfooty]

 If I have a FTF I know exactly how the next 24 hrs will transpire.

 

No you don't. You don't even know how the next five minutes will transpire from right now! You can guess, but you don't KNOW.

 

 

You certainly don't know how the future will transpire after you see a BF. I hope you see one, so you can come back & tell us all about it. It won't be like you think.

[norseman]

I hope I do too.............

[Yuchi1]

I do to and hope you have the presence of mind to pause and process the information being sent to your brain cells, before doing something that may haunt you for eternity.

[Sasfooty]

Sometimes guns refuse to shoot when they are involved. Hubby was going to shoot one of their coyotes & the gun kept misfiring until the coyote was out of sight, then it started working fine. Never happened before or since.