Collection Of Voucher Specimens

[norseman]

Yes, you get some circular logic coming out of that, find a digging stick, an anvil used for freshwater mussel or hickory nuts, it must be homo sapiens because only homo sapiens uses tools. Therefore there are no odd things to explain in the woods. Therefore there is nothing else to look for.

[Guest]

Yah, but we still gotta wait for this generation of grad students to get tenure and start telling their grad students to look out for signs of animal tools, it ain't sinking in.

[southernyahoo]

SY;

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches/globalpost-blogs/weird-wide-web/ape-feet-found-1-13-people

Under 10 % of humans have feet as flexible as an ape. Neanderthals had the same longitudinal arch as modern humans. You would have to show that over 90 % of Sasquatch have the same foot as us.

 

I'm surprised any people have feet as flexible as an ape, so I would say that with 5 to 10% having feet that flexible it's not such a distinguishing feature.

 

Why is a hoaxed suit and a hairy human one and the same?

 

 

 

They just appear that way, atleast the best suits do, or the video's would be proof in and of themselves.

 

Chimps use tools like a rock to crush a nut and they belong to the genus Pan...... Not Homo. So no........tools did in fact come before Humans. And for that matter Otters use rocks to break clam shells and crows drop acorns in front of cars. Tool manufacture and not use is uniquely human.

 

 

Manufacturing could take many forms, chimps also fasion sticks of particular dimensions and characteristics to retrieve termites from their mounds. You can't document these things from beings that won't let you observe them at sufficient length.

[norseman]

^^^^^^

I would....... most Sasquatch tracks show signs of a extremely flexible foot. This is one of our shining stars that these tracks were not made by pine boards.

Here again maybe one percent of humans exhibit anything close to as hairy as Patty.

I don't think just chewing off a stick to length is a good example of tool manufacture. the flaked hand axe is millions of years old in the human lineage. Do we see evidence of obsidian tools being made by Sasquatch? Or fire pits to harden wood into spears? No. I have no problem envisioning them using tools like a chimp does, and it would be very easy to overlook a broken stick vs a fire pit or obsidian shards.

[southernyahoo]

I think tool manufacturing could be defined as manually altering an object to make it fulfill a particular purpose in use. We can't even observe Sasquatch wood knocking but we are pretty sure they do it. That would be a very simple stick tool So saying they don't make more sophisticated tools is premature. I'm not saying that Sasquatch build fires and make spears, but in the big picture, I also don't think it will preclude their humanity one way or the other since I feel that being human ( member of genus homo) is a biological condition rather than a behavioral activity or the use of a particular method of procuring food. It might seem more cultural since archaeologists always point to the tools present in the same layers that the bones are found in but they also discover new hominins like Denisovans that might be responsible for some of the tools. Ofcoarse dead specimens don't do anything, so the biological makeup and the anatomy is all that will count.with a voucher specimen. 

 

I would take one hour's worth of observation of one over a dead specimen. I bet I'd learn more about them that way and much quicker. That might seem selfish because because I might not be able to prove much to the world, but I'd know enough before I ever pulled the trigger on one.

 

That's the way I operate and always will.

[norseman]

^^^^^^^

I hope you know that I respect you immensely. But certain things you and I disagree about.

A dead specimen delivered to the Smithsonian? Would be able to provide data for years. What does it eat? What is its reproductive system? DNA? Brain CC? Etc!

On top of that? No longer can they ignore the species and the long lens of science would finally study this species with budgets that individual researchers could only dream of.

Your experiences die with you or are shared upon a board like this......proof delivered to the Smithsonian would be a game changer!

[Guest]

Thank you for your kind words.

Look I'm a no body in terms of this field. I don't go to conferences and I don't have leading researchers on speed dial. I'm just an average joe that goes out on my own dime when job and family don't get in the way to look. I have been blessed with being raised in a remote part of Washington that has historical had lots of sightings and most notably the bossburg tracks.

I'm utterly frustrated with the "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" mentality that unfortunately is the majority in this field. They are gonna crack this thing wide open.........they just need another bag of dental resin! Or worse, we know they exists and don't care if they are proven. Thank goodness the polio vaccine wasn't handled the same way. No body stops and listens to what science is asking from each of us.

I started Project Grendel (with lots of help) because if enough of us average joes got together who concentrated on cutting through the bull? We might get lucky and solve this thing in our lifetime. I can shoot a rifle very well and can pack stock in the mountains......those are my strengths, along with others. For others it's crunching data and reading reports. We ping ideas and experiences off of each other and we never get into debates about existence or pro kill, it's great. We don't take ourselves super seriously and we don't hide information. I'll tell anyone my methods I've tried as well as those of other members.

So secret sauce, no competition, no egos, let's just get it done and over with ASAP. Nobody needs to be the "guy", and we just want to settle the mystery once and for all.

If Branco can get a saliva sample by simply handing over a piece of fruit? Awesome! I don't care how it happens, just so it happens. But 50 years ago a Sasquatch was covered by a rifle as it walked down a creek bed. The man chose not to shoot, and his buddies film was going to crack it wide open. But science scoffed at it, the logging continued and here it is 50 years later. Not a real animal but a myth like a Leprechaun. I find the whole situation quite sad really.

I also find it sad to hear the explanations for why its impossible to take a specimen. Everything from black helicopters to mental telepathy. I hear lots of people talking about the creatures attributes and abilities, when we have not even scratched the surface.

Anyhow, I'm not saying this is the only way, but easily it's the quickest way to prove it exists.

An animal standing 8' tall weighing 700 lbs that also eats meat would be considered an apex predator. Dangerous game.

 I believe it COULD be done. (a body taken) It would take a team trained in dangerous situations. Big game hunters in Africa, who routinely go in the brush after man killers, with big bore rifles, bigger than whats used on this continent, and with trackers with back up rifles could get this done perhaps, AND get a body out.

Or perhaps a military team. Someone that had worked together in very dangerous situations and could keep a cool head in a high pressure situation with some high caliber fire power. Joe Blow might pull this off alone, but I think the chance of that happening and recovering the body would be less than 1%.

 

It would take several talented individuals to find a target, take it out and remove the body.

 

Just my opinion and silly ramblings.

[Branco]

An animal standing 8' tall weighing 700 lbs that also eats meat would be considered an apex predator. Dangerous game.

 I believe it COULD be done. (a body taken) It would take a team trained in dangerous situations. Big game hunters in Africa, who routinely go in the brush after man killers, with big bore rifles, bigger than whats used on this continent, and with trackers with back up rifles could get this done perhaps, AND get a body out.

Or perhaps a military team. Someone that had worked together in very dangerous situations and could keep a cool head in a high pressure situation with some high caliber fire power. Joe Blow might pull this off alone, but I think the chance of that happening and recovering the body would be less than 1%.

 

It would take several talented individuals to find a target, take it out and remove the body.

 

Just my opinion and silly ramblings.

For an "opinion and silly ramblings", it sure as heck makes a lot of sense!   There such teams - with ALL the equipment  they need, and they have been used. Folks just make a big deal of conspiracies, but it's pretty simple.

 

"A conspiracy  is nothing but a secret  agreement of a number of men for the pursuance of policies which they dare not admit in public." 

-Mark Twain

[JKH]

Thank you, Mr B, for continuing to point out what should be fairly obvious, but is conveniently ignored by the killer/prover types. It's been done.

[Guest]

When has it been done and why Branco?

I heard a story on Sasquatch chronicles of a SF Team going in to track and kill troublesome boogers.

[norseman]

Well it's claimed to have been done....... The last one if memory serves is Mr. Smeja who even passed a polygraph test and ended up giving us Bear DNA.

It's no wonder that skeptics have a hey day with this field. Lots and lots of stories and nothing more.

[Guest]

I meant when and why have SF teams been sent in to track and kill a bigfoot

[norseman]

SOCOM works on a need to know basis............

[Yuchi1]

Back in the day...

 

The plan had been worked out and involved the 24/7 physical monitoring of a known activity site for a dedicated ~90 day period, a ~1700 meter shot(s), extraction team, safe storage area, media presentation and sale of the product. Was within a few days of putting the deposit down on a Barrett .50 caliber and then, I came to my senses, realized it was flat wrong plus, the individuals I was associating with were not trustworthy.

[norseman]

There is no way I'd take a 1700 meter shot on a Sasquatch. There is way to much of a margin of error at that distance concerning a positive ID.

I'm glad you reconsidered.