Has Bigfoot Science Stalled?

[georgerm]

Hello Hiflier and SWWA .....   Shadow, BigTree, Guy, and more:

 

Gate closures keep out timber thiefs, fire starters, and bigfoot researchers that could all be bad for timber companies.

 

I'm still back on the 'pinch point' discussion and I made a sample map. Before moving along too fast, science is slow to develop so let's focus in more. This discussion of migration routes and pinch points that someone started................... was it SWWA is important? We can all take credit to an important 'theory to bigfoot migration.'  This would be a whole chapter in our bigfoot science book.

 

Let's slow down and not hop from topic to topic like Jack Rabbits. We have more to discuss on migration routes.

 

Shadow's theory is valid. Please open the map and comment.

Edited June 16, 2016 by georgerm

[hiflier]

Hey georgerm, nice map. Looking at these possible locations needs to have a certain kind of perspective though. One that we pretty much all are aware of but that doesn't really get mentioned. I've been hinting at it by bringing up the monitoring of pinch points by whatever or whoever is in charge of checking in on animal movement or the impacts some of these larger highways have been having on movement. There should be assessments and reports on that aspect somewhere one would think. We can perhaps identify places that look like plausible routes for animals to use but there should be along with that an understanding that we are not the ones inventing this idea. The idea has already been around for a long time.

But this is the BFF so we are trying to see if whatever programs and monitoring that's in place would also impact any field research along these lines. Something which should be part of anyone's plans should they want to check out things on the ground. I saw where in one location there were about $7,000 of camera equipment take from a location. But there was a camera monitoring a camera and a photo of an individual with what looked like a metal rod was taken and they are now looking for him.

We need to know this stuff BEFORE any forays into the field. It's why I think researching the different data points that I brought up like fire history and flooding might be looked at and compared to sightings that we have. The pinch points are fine yes, but they just might have their own dynamic of surveillance that we should be aware of.

[BigTreeWalker]

I'm with Shadowborn that it might be the males that are moving around and the family groups remaining in certain locales. What we have seen in our research area tends to support this thinking. Individual male movement would also provide the required genetic diversity to keep a population healthy. I also agree if there were more individuals moving together sightings would be greater.

Georgerm, that was a good observation of terrain features funneling movement. However, as hiflier brought up the highways are the pinch points and the crossing points must be accounted for. Sightings help with this. But as far as the I-5 corridor goes we just don't have the sightings to support surface crossings. Hiflier I do understand what you are saying in that if some of these cross under points are known to wildlife researchers, then they are probably already under observation.

Hiflier, not sure where you are headed with the fires and flooding, except to funnel or force movement. Anyway neither major fires or flooding have been an issue for years on the east side of I-5 within 40 miles of the highway. In fact the Cowlitz above I-5 is controlled well by 3 dams upriver. The west side is a different story as far as flooding. The Chehalis river does flood its river plain occasionally, to the detriment of the towns along the river.

[hiflier]

Because I couldn't seem to get a detailed history of fires I was hoping someone in WA could and you cleared the air with what you said about fires in the last 40 years. I was gearing to see if floods or fires on either side of I-5 could be correlated to road sightings so yes, I was thinking about natural events forcing movement to one side of the highway or the other outside of seasonal speculations..

[BigTreeWalker]

Hiflier, that was within forty miles east of I-5. But other than the mountain the last really major fire was the Yacolt burn over a hundred years ago. To the south of where we are talking. The Chehalis does flood occasionally and could hinder movement on the west side of the freeway. But that would be more a blockage of movement in that area. That would just push anything up into the Willipa Hills or back into the Olympics.

Anyway if there is crossing of I-5 going on it probably occurs either north or south of the Chehalis along the highway.

[BobbyO]

Regarding fires in WA, or Eastern WA anyway where over 90% of the largest have been in the last 5 years, check out this graph for the decline in sighting reports in Eastern WA during that same time period and the subsequent rise in reports in the South Cascades in that same time period.

 

Of course i need to match up Western Idaho with this to see what we have there too within the same time period.

 

 

Huge swings above in both of those geographical zones in the same, most recent time period.

Edited June 17, 2016 by BobbyO

[BigTreeWalker]

I can attest to the destructiveness of the fires in north central Washington. Since I have some property in the midst of one of the largest ones. It looks like it may support the idea that fires do push them out of some areas and into others. But I have to wonder what accounts for the decrease in the Olympics during the same time period. There were no major fires in that region that I can recall. So the decrease there must be from other reasons.

[BobbyO]

Based on my previous research and a specific area of interest i posted about before centering on a general area south of the capitol state forest i see that the "Spring" theory is prevalent. 

 

We've got 9 reports within a 15 mile radius of Grand Mound, WA which sit on I-5 and the Chehalis River.

 

Feb x 1

March x 1

April x 3

May x 3

August x 1

 

That's it.

 

There is a pretty heavily forested patch just off and bordering the east side of I-5 there running through to Bucoda, WA, within 7/8 miles due east of that is the Skookumchuck Resevoir, and within 30 miles due east of that as the crow flies is Elbe which is the gateway to Mt Rainier National Park.

 

There is a Feb and March report both from within 5 years within 5 miles of that heavily forested area that are only 3 or 4 miles apart and are both within 0.5 miles of a power cable tract.

 

That's where i'll look next Spring, the numbers favour me doing so..

[BobbyO]

I can attest to the destructiveness of the fires in north central Washington. Since I have some property in the midst of one of the largest ones. It looks like it may support the idea that fires do push them out of some areas and into others. But I have to wonder what accounts for the decrease in the Olympics during the same time period. There were no major fires in that region that I can recall. So the decrease there must be from other reasons.

 

There's a pattern in that too though ( The Olympics) BTW. 5 year periods to the present day see's increase > decrease > increase > decrease and even close to the same increase > decrease, or at least decrease numbers too.

 

However, overall it looks like we are still on course for an increase in reports from the Olympic Peninsula where the decade is concerned.

 

Edited June 17, 2016 by BobbyO

[hiflier]

Interesting graphs. Willapa Hills looks fairly consistent. The apparent jump in the four regions during the 2000,s is also interesting but I don't know what that means other than perhaps the economy favoring more people going to campgrounds and less to resorts. The economy might also keep more folks at home who know where to go for local vacationing. And then there's Animal Planet which could be the newest factor affecting the number of sightings in that folks are watching the woods and environment more? Dunno. All guesswork on m y part. 

[SWWASAS]

Yes, good point. It does seem that it all comes down to three things- luck, Human presence, and monitoring with luck probably being the leading factor. An too, I've recently been wondering if road closings also allow monitoring stations to be set up without being observed along with the other more obvious reasons of course. I mean in this day and age monitoring makes good sense as it saves man hours in the field and that translates into the money on a limited budget to be better used elsewhere.

I do not view locked gates and out of use forest roads as an impediment but as an opportunity.     Certainly it is nice to drive all the way there,  I just go under a forest gate with my fat tired bike and pedal my way into remote areas where I know humans are not going very often.    It the terrain is too steep to bike I hike or both on the same trip.   Even at that I do not expect to encounter a BF sauntering down a forest road,   Most such roads in this area, unless they are very old are covered with crushed basalt rock, often fist sized, and would be unpleasant walking for BF.   Other than a suspicious pile of strange scat,   I think that while BF may cross such roads, and  I have seen footprint evidence of such crossings,   I really do not think they use the roads just because of the road surface.    One place I know there is a "game trail" that parallels a logging road for some distance.     That "game trail" is marked by rock stacks on stumps.   Careful examination of that trail, while it shows travel, because of wear down of vegetation, I have yet to find a hooved animal footprint on the thing.   I do not know what is using the trail, but it is not deer and elk.  

 

Georgerm;    That area below Bonneville Dam while narrow the water is very swift.     I have a hunch that frequent crossings are further down at about the mile marker 27 location.      Three reasons,    the water is not as swift,   road crossing reports in that area, and sighting reports above that on the rim of the gorge.    There is a small park on the gorge rim where a sighting was observed just above the mile 27 marker.     A guy was just sitting there in the dark and a BF approached him.     Visiting the location I could see where something could travel down into the gorge down a ravine.    Many of the sighting reports, when I can determine the exact location, I have gone to the spot trying to figure out why the BF was there.     There are also many locations in the gorge where the cliffs are too steep to scale down.   That really limits where something can come out of the high country and get down to the river level.     Once you get abeam Mt Hood at all, the elevations to the South increase tremendously with snow cover in place most of the year.    

[BobbyO]

BobbyO, I know those are off the top of your head numbers, but that's a 400% difference. I do think that bigfoot moves to lower elevations with the snow. But, in your opinion, could some of that difference be accounted for because of winter inaccessibility in some portions of the Cascades? A combination of locked gates and snow. Not just a decrease as a result of migration but a decrease of possible observers (people).

Although the fact that food sources would be a lot more available on the Olympic Peninsula during the winter is a good selling point for the increase in sightings there.

 

Sorry BTW, just seen this.

 

I'm not so sure about inaccessibility in the South Cascades, i'm pretty sure they'd find a way round both the locked gate scenario and there's plenty of areas without the big snow dump.

 

It's a conundrum for sure.

 

Whether it's something more i just don't know.

 

I can tell you this though regarding humans and the South Cascades in the winter, Mt Rainier National Park see's or has seen over the last couple of decades, only around at best, 5% of it's annual visitors (60k out of an average of 1.25m annually)  in the winter whereus the Olympic National Park see's around 10% of it's 3m annual visitors in Winter.

 

Of course the South Cascades Geographical Zone that we refer to is a much larger area than just Mt Rainier National Park but a very high % of it's recreational visitors would be visiting the park. 

[BobbyO]

 

 

Strange about these links, sorry Guys.

 

This is the 5 year period clusters with all seasons included - https://squatchermetrics.cartodb.com/viz/9648ce96-8888-11e5-aa20-0e98b61680bf/map

I have to say on first viewing for a few seconds that it seems like a lot of sightings for only a 5 year period. 

 

 

Initially all of the layers are turned on H, you can turn them on/off as you please in the layer section which is at the top right of the map.

Edited June 18, 2016 by BobbyO

[BobbyO]

 

Looking at Google Earth,   I see at least one bridge over a creek that either has a culvert or bridge.     46 22' 19.14" N   122 54' 23.93" W.     The approach and west side have a lot of cover.

Yes, that was the primary spot. There are options for crossing the river after that and getting into the hills toward Vader and Ryderwood once there it's pretty much a straight secluded shot to Gray's Harbor or North by keeping East of Hwy 101.

 

 

I'm thinking a little further north, near the Tenino general area.

 

Reason i say it is there is ample cover on both sides of the highway for a fair distance there and there are sighting reports on both sides of the highway there within 10 or so miles within the last few years too, in Feb, March and April i may add.

 

There's a bridge at Maytown with both a road and railtracks that go under the I-5 there, but  little further south there's a bridge that goes over Scatter Creek. This bridge and the creek feed in to that 12,000 acre piece of timber on the east side of the I-5 that mentioned yesterday.

 

One of the sighting reports is due east of this bridge 11 miles away.

 

Options Gentlemen, options..

[BobbyO]

I just nearly had a heart attack.

I was scouting these areas on GE and was looking at potential access to this area I'm talking of and the power line corridors that lead direct to the bridge of the I-5 that you can see here.

Anyway as I was looking, I saw this.

Which upon further inspection turned out to be this.

Haha nearly..