Missing 411

[Explorer]

^^ I agree SWWASAS.

 

In addition, all the professional mountaineers and hang-gliders that I know, read the fatality incident reports in their field.

 

That is just another way they learn and grow professionally.

 

I remember reading paper copies of mountain climbing incident reports from CA in the 90's, and I always learned a lot from the mistakes made (that led to death).

When incidents happen, the root cause(s) could be due to skill, bad luck, or combination of both.

A good incident report will parse the root causes between skill and luck and will provide lessons learned.

 

When I read the missing 411 reports or other missing person reports, I read them to learn and discern what was due to poor judgement, poor skills, or just bad luck (or unknown reasons).

Many times (on the real mysterious cases), there is not enough information to draw firm conclusions (either because critical information is not available or because SAR or the sheriff did not disclose it, or because there was not a full thorough report/documentation of all factors).

 

I suspect that in some of these cases, where men are lost with cell phones and GPS, and they refuse to call and admit that they are not in the correct trail, it is because they feel that they are not lost. 

They know exactly where they are.  They are just taking a cross-country short-cut down to the trail below that will kill them because they were over-confident in their skill set, did not know of the dangers ahead, and were too proud to even call somebody for help.

 

I am guilty of this too.  I ran out of water on a solo backpack in the Arizona desert with temperatures in the high 90's.

I was suffering from heat exhaustion and my hiking slowed to a crawl with extended breaks.  

I was not lost.  I knew exactly where I was and had GPS and cell phone.

But no way in hell I was going to call for rescue.

I was going to continue hiking until I ran into somebody or my buddy that was supposed to pick me up (he went to the wrong location) and stay overnight if needed.

The activation energy or the near death threat potential to call the sheriff or 911 for help has to be really high and most of us will not recognize when it rings the bell.

[Henry Stevens]

On 2/1/2021 at 2:43 PM, BlackRockBigfoot said:

Paulides started off as a dedicated Bigfoot researcher and then branched off into the Missing 411 while doing Bigfoot research in a national park.  I won't recount the story of how he got into this here, since it is repeated at the beginning of almost every interview that he has ever done. 

 

I am not going to debate the merits of the Ketchum study, but he has publicly stated that the study has (in his mind) proved the existence of Bigfoot...so he has mostly moved on to focus primarily on the topic of strange disappearances, which he seems to consider more of a pressing issue than the existence of Sasquatch.  He catches a lot of flack for not publicly stating what he believes to be the cause of these disappearances, but I believe that his own opinion of the culprits has changed over time...and he is remaining open to new data that might change that opinion even further. 

 

I am trying to figure out what you are trying to state here.  What are we supposed to call him out for?  The fact that he spends his time on research that is not Sasquatch related?  What data should he turn over?  He has published two books on the topic of his Bigfoot research, which contains his research results. 

 

People do go missing all of the time.  However, most (not all) of the cases that he presents have unusual circumstances and elements involved.  Again, this is evident if you listen to a couple of his interviews...it is not even necessary to read one of his books to see the criteria that he uses to judge whether a missing persons case is included or not.

 

On 2/1/2021 at 2:43 PM, BlackRockBigfoot said:

People can claim to research anything.  So far researching the existence of god has proven not to have a researchable paradigm.  A researchable paradigm is what is needed to research the existence of god or ghosts, for instance.  Paulides had a researchable paradigm when he identified living bigfoot-human hybrids.  All he would have had to do is test them for their DNA.  If they are hybrids, bingo, we have real bigfoot DNA.  We could build a DNA profile of bigfoot in this way.  But on the verge of doing this, Paulides chickened out.  He decided to do something less consequential but easier and "research" missing people.  This may or may not have anything to do with bigfoot but in either event this line of study is so much less important than securing a bigfoot DNA sample that no comparison is possible.  But it does not stop there.  What Paulides should have done was to turn the information over to another researcher willing to go ahead with this line of study.  In other words, the names and contact information for the alleged hybrids.  I would like to suggest Dr. Mark Evans, the British Veterinarian who collected the eDNA in the Himalayas.   Right now, in spite of all the TV programs and multi-hour podcasts which make their boring way to youtube, Dr. Evens is currently the leading bigfoot expert on the planet. 

 

 

[Henry Stevens]

Just now, Henry Stevens said:

I seem to be having trouble posting or have posted under BlackRockBigfoot's name.  Sorry if this is what happened.

 

 

[BlackRockBigfoot]

I am trying to understand what you are saying here.

 

"Paulides had a researchable paradigm when he identified living bigfoot-human hybrids. All he would have had to do is test them for their DNA. If they are hybrids, bingo, we have real bigfoot DNA."

 

"In other words, the names and contact information for the alleged hybrids."

 

Are you saying that Paulides identified specific modern humans who would qualify as Bigfoot hybrids?  

 

You believe that he has a secret dossier of names and addresses of these people who are Bigfoot hybrids, and that he should turn this information over to Mark Evans so that he can go obtain DNA samples from them?  

 

How is Evans the world's greatest expert on Sasquatch?  He found an inconclusive DNA sample in the Himalayas.  How does that qualify him as the world's leading expert?  How can anyone be an expert, let alone a veterinarian turned TV host?

 

Or, am I not understanding what you are saying here?

 

I am in no way defending their point of view, but Paulides et al believe that they have proven the existence and, to a lesser extent, the origin of Sasquatch through the Ketchum DNA study.  As far as they are concerned, the case is closed.  Mystery solved.  He's moved on to other things, namely Missing 411. In his mind, the DNA question has been solved.  I don't see how fear has anything to do with this.  Admittedly, ego probably plays a part.  Paulides pretty much owns the genre of strange disappearances in national parks.  There's a ton of Bigfoot researchers out there, but he stumbled into a unique phenomenon that he has become irrevocably associated with .

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Henry Stevens]

Yes, BlackRockBigfoot, you have it exactly.  I don't know how secret those names are since he identified Patrick and his two daughters by first name but their contact information must be confidential.  Paulides needs to turn this over to someone who will follow it up.  Yes, Dr. Mark Evans has done more for bigfoot research than anyone I know.  He, his team which included a French geneticist who gathered the DNA, has found some actual bigfoot DNA, had it tested and it was bigfoot DNA.  Obviously, it is not a high res. genome, but it is a start.  I like the Ketchum idea but what she proved is there are DNA methodologies and then there are DNA methodologies.  

 

The truth about DNA testing is we have a leading lab, Max Planck, Biological Anthropology, Leipzig.  This is Dr. Svante Paabo's operation.  He trained David Reich who set up a similar lab in the USA.  Given the Neanderthal/Denisovan experience, Paabo is the final word.

[Arvedis]

Thread has derailed. Paulides has no Bigfoot research paradigm. In fact, he has nothing at all worth discussing in that regard. His work was rudimentary and he knows it. That's why he drifted into other areas as that's where he felt more answers would be found.

 

The ketchum study was botched even with best intentions There may be interesting kernels worth pointing out but it's a crash and burn scenario. There's no way anyone can lean on that and proclaim any sustainable theories from it. To claim otherwise is off the rails into the quarry below for a spectacular explosion.

Edited February 3, 2021 by Arvedis

[BlackRockBigfoot]

@Henry Stevens

 

"I don't know how secret those names are since he identified Patrick and his two daughters by first name but their contact information must be confidential."

 

I must confess that I have never seen this before.  

 

Where did he identify these people?  Patrick and his two daughters?  In a book or an interview?  

Edited February 3, 2021 by BlackRockBigfoot

[Arvedis]

1 hour ago, Henry Stevens said:

Yes, BlackRockBigfoot, you have it exactly.  I don't know how secret those names are since he identified Patrick and his two daughters by first name but their contact information must be confidential.  Paulides needs to turn this over to someone who will follow it up.  Yes, Dr. Mark Evans has done more for bigfoot research than anyone I know.  He, his team which included a French geneticist who gathered the DNA, has found some actual bigfoot DNA, had it tested and it was bigfoot DNA.  Obviously, it is not a high res. genome, but it is a start.  I like the Ketchum idea but what she proved is there are DNA methodologies and then there are DNA methodologies.  

 

The truth about DNA testing is we have a leading lab, Max Planck, Biological Anthropology, Leipzig.  This is Dr. Svante Paabo's operation.  He trained David Reich who set up a similar lab in the USA.  Given the Neanderthal/Denisovan experience, Paabo is the final word.

 

My Bigfoot BS meter just went to 11.

[Henry Stevens]

7 hours ago, Arvedis said:

 

My Bigfoot BS meter just went to 11.

I am sure that means something in your world but frankly, my dear, I don't.....

[Henry Stevens]

8 hours ago, BlackRockBigfoot said:

@Henry Stevens

 

"I don't know how secret those names are since he identified Patrick and his two daughters by first name but their contact information must be confidential."

 

I must confess that I have never seen this before.  

 

Where did he identify these people?  Patrick and his two daughters?  In a book or an interview?  

 

Paulides did two long interviews for that ghost-guy on Coast to Coast. But in it the central theme was human-bigfoot hybrids.  He ran down the Patrick story, you MUST have heard of that one.  But Paulides when on to say he had identified two of Patrick's daughters.  Neither were in good circumstances and Patrick, of course, was long dead.  Paulides went on to name the daughters and place them in the Pacific Northwest.  He also went on to name another individual who claimed to be half bigfoot.  This man was half American Indian.  Paulides met with him as described in this interview and said he was a huge man, very laterally built, who always wanted to live at a somewhat lower temperature than other people.  In other words, he liked the cold.  I think Paulides gave a first name for this man.  This was circa 2013.  After this, Paulides dropped all discussion of human-bigfoot hybrids and degenerated into missing persons.  I know nothing about any book he wrote but it is possible.

 

I am really surprised you know so little about this since this is so central to any discussion of bigfoot DNA or bigfoot's phylogenetic relation to humans.

[BlackRockBigfoot]

26 minutes ago, Henry Stevens said:

 

Paulides did two long interviews for that ghost-guy on Coast to Coast. But in it the central theme was human-bigfoot hybrids.  He ran down the Patrick story, you MUST have heard of that one.  But Paulides when on to say he had identified two of Patrick's daughters.  Neither were in good circumstances and Patrick, of course, was long dead.  Paulides went on to name the daughters and place them in the Pacific Northwest.  He also went on to name another individual who claimed to be half bigfoot.  This man was half American Indian.  Paulides met with him as described in this interview and said he was a huge man, very laterally built, who always wanted to live at a somewhat lower temperature than other people.  In other words, he liked the cold.  I think Paulides gave a first name for this man.  This was circa 2013.  After this, Paulides dropped all discussion of human-bigfoot hybrids and degenerated into missing persons.  I know nothing about any book he wrote but it is possible.

 

I am really surprised you know so little about this since this is so central to any discussion of bigfoot DNA or bigfoot's phylogenetic relation to humans.

Lol.  

 

While I respect Paulides' Missing 411 work, I don't consider the Ketchum study to be central to discussion of Bigfoot.  An amusing and somewhat embarrassing sidenote, but certainly not central.  

 

Paulides has done several interviews on C2CAM.  I assume that you mean George Knapp when you say 'the ghost guy', since most of Paulides best interviews have been with him.  Paulides did an interview around the time that the Ketchum study first made waves.  Iirc, J.C. Johnson was on with him.  That was years ago and I have no recollection of any discussion of actual human/Bigfoot hybrids that had actually been tracked down.  If that was mentioned, it certainly didn't gain any traction since I can't find any mention of it anywhere.  If anything, it sounds like an anecdotal account of certain people who seem to look and behave like throwbacks, as opposed to literal hybrids that Paulides had tracked down and identified.

 

Maybe someone else can chime in and help fill in the gaps in my knowledge... especially if this is so well known and central to the subject of Bigfoot.

 

As far as his books...he has 3 specifically on Bigfoot and several on the Missing 411 phenomenon.  I am really surprised you know so little about this since this is so central to any discussion of...well, David Paulides.  

 

 

 

 

[Arvedis]

1 hour ago, Henry Stevens said:

I am sure that means something in your world but frankly, my dear, I don't.....

 

 

[Henry Stevens]

No, there was a two part, each one hour, video presentation of the Coast to Coast Interview I found one line at that time.  Coast to Coast is always trying to package and repackage their work to make a dime so I don't know where that is right now.  As I recall, it was the Ghost Guy not George Knapp (who I recognize when I see him) but I may be wrong.  Who ever it was did an OK job interviewing Paulides so his identity would be incidental to me.  The fact that bigfoot DNA is possibly out there and available for sampling can hardly be incidental. 

 

Does chasing bigfoot and getting pictures mean anything?  No.  It is entertainment, not proof.  A body, bones or DNA are the only means of proof.  When any of these present themselves as possibilities I don't understand why others interested in bigfoot would not sit up and take notice.  

 

Dr. Evans is the person whom you might recall gathered sample all around the world for Dr. Bryan Sykes on that television series.  Dr. Evans did the latest on on his own and got a bear DNA specialist to reexamine some of the alleged brown bear-polar bear hybrid evidence.  When he got the eDNA evidence with a great chain of evidence, done in the field by a geneticist, that was truly great work.

[BlackRockBigfoot]

I know who Sykes is...

 

I know that Evans is the veterinarian tv host who gathered DNA samples... 

 

What I still don't know is how Paulides supposedly had the names and locations of literal human hybrids, what he was planning on doing with that information, and why he was scared away from pursuing their DNA and into investigating strange disappearances with Missing 411.  Nor do I understand how his comments on a podcast that no one seems to remember are vitally important to the search for Bigfoot...so vital that anyone interested in the topic should be familiar with them. 

 

Constantly reiterating Sykes's history is not answering any of these questions that your posts have generated.  Sykes and even Evans are not the points of contention here.

 

I am trying hard to figure out your complaints about Paulides, but I don't think that we are going to get anywhere with this and I think that further attempts to try and get clarification are just going to fail and drive this thread even more off topic.    

 

 

 

 

[Arvedis]

There is no way that Paulides broke character and proclaimed he was aware of or researched actual bf hybrids. He may have mentioned something about it as a far off speculative subject. But even that is suspiciously off target for what we know of as his m.o.. 

 

Paulides has been ultra careful of his position and has never speculated. He has dropped dry hints every now and again.

 

So either the claimant finds the exact podcast with exact timestamp or it didn't happen.