Guest vilnoori Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Human kids have very underdeveloped noses when still in the toddler stage as well. And look at that high, domed forehead, the white sclera in the eye, and wider lips than apes. You are still looking at a homo genus member I think, even though it does remind one of a baby orangutan in some ways. It is all about the small details. The prognathicism (teeth/jaw forward of the nose) is one of the last ape-like attributes to disappear in the human lineage, and many peoples around the world still have a pronounced lower part of the face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I was thinking the same thing about noses Vil. The bridge of the nose doesn't fully develop until after puberty. Look at pics of grown preschool kids and compare them with their adult pics. There are big changes, mostly in the bridge area not so much the nostrils that I've observed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Transformer Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 In my opinion this cannot be taken as a situation where education or knowledge would have helped because it must have been a clear decision to shoot something just for the sake of shooting it. That is my opinion anyway. If you substituted a 1,000 lb grizzly bear with cubs with the female bear acting very aggressively into the exact same scenario as the shooter describes he would never get away with claiming self defence if he shot the grizzly where I come from. The distance alone makes a case of fearing for one's life incomprehensible as does the proximity of a fully operational motor vehicle. Now if we take the sketch of the creature's head and face as being true then I am very nervous that there are people who are so willing to shoot at something so human looking without any reasonable explanation. I hope he never sees me through his scope when I'm having a bad hair day. Does this mean you are in the "no kill" camp? I am not in the "No Kill" camp. I am just in the camp of trying to figure out the truth of the matter. I have a hard time believing the shooter's story when he claims being afraid for his life when he is a supposedly well armed and well experienced bear hunter that shoots a creature at such a distance with a perfectly good vehicle to get into and flee if he needs to. He also makes "confusing" statements (I guess that is the correct term) such as Art1972 points out which adds to my concern about the whole story. If he saw that it was such a human looking creature BEFORE he shot it (which he must have as the artist shows great details) why was he so shook up after killing it? He saw what he was shooting before he shot it and ran up to it to obviously make sure it was dead (why else?). I guess the fear must have evaporated with the thrill of the hoped for kill. Then he kills another one with the "fear excuse" again even though it was much smaller but still human looking. And then his concience kicks in I guess or something because he didn't take any photos or evidence with him nor did he try to get the authorities immediately involved. Call me confused too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 It is human nature to fear "monsters" and the unknown, when frightened they tend to react violently,and with out reason. I have seen to many people come on here, and claim they would not react the same way,when odds are, they would. Its pretty easy to say how you would react when presented with a large, hairy thing walking towards you,but you would probably react just like the General did, even if you can't admit it to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vilnoori Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 http://zodiblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/crazy-homeless-man.jpg http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID32018/images/091208155220resized_Bigfoot.jpg Hmm...all that different? Definitely scary, but not something to point a gun at and shoot with no reservations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted June 11, 2012 Admin Share Posted June 11, 2012 http://www.flickr.co...pan/2238583944/ http://zodiblog.file...omeless-man.jpg http://www.examiner....zed_Bigfoot.jpg Hmm...all that different? Definitely scary, but not something to point a gun at and shoot with no reservations. Yes, but only superficially. In one of those photos the subject has the strength of sixteen humans.........and does not construct tools or fire. Something the Homo lineage has been doing for at least 400,000 years. From a anthropological standpoint that is a pretty big knock against Sasquatch belonging to the Homo line. We are not talking about "Uncle Bob" the big poor dumb hobo guy that lives under the bridge somewhere........... Sasquatch doesn't have within his race evidently ANY member that can figure out how to flake obsidian, or make a fish spear, or construct a bow/drill to start a fire, even though for millennia he has supposedly peered out from the shadows watching his "little cousins" do it in a mundane fashion day in and day out. Well gee, many people will say..........."Sasquatch doesn't need such things, he is at one with nature". And I say that is a load of mystical, blunt toking, PacNW hippie hogwash if I have ever heard it. They are right about one thing........he DOESN'T need such things, and the reason being is very simple. The reason is is that he lacks that Homo spark of creativity and ingenuity in his brain that separates us from the rest of our primate cousins. And I'm not talking about modern humans and the computer age.............I'm talking about a lowly 800 cc brain cased Homo Erectus that one day looked appraisingly at a rock and decided to try and flake a hand axe out of it. The hand axe enriched his life and made it easier for him to exist in this harsh world. Something that any INTELLIGENT creature is going to strive for.........a better life for it's children. The rest of the animal kingdom is at peace to do it as it's always been done..........because that's the way it's always been done. Like cattle grazing in a circular fashion in a field. Until the door closes on the niche they are currently occupying and their race blinks out into the fossil record. I'm sorry Vil, I love you and you know that, I just very adamantly reject this line of reasoning that seems to be growing on this site. If anybody would like to step up to the plate and explain to us why Sasquatch is the lone Homo exception to the rule in a scientific fashion? I'm all ears. Next let's seriously talk about this for a minute. You see Sasquatch........you shoot Sasquatch......you call authorities.......they roll up on scene and arrest you because...........why? Because you shot a new species of Homo that shares the same Genus as you? "Sir.........it looks like you have shot some archaic form of human here, so I'm afraid I've got to book you down town!" Sure............that could happen.......right before the Smithsonian and every other scientific institution on the PLANET calls you and offers you an honorary position on their staff with a giant salary and a "please don't forget to bring the body" reminder as well. The mayor would personally let you go ONLY after a publicity stunt that included the town naming a major avenue after you..... Sure.........you'd get death threats.........from bunny huggers......the same bunny huggers that don't have the heart to kill BUNNIES! They would pool their money together, buy a pistol, draw straws on who would cap you, try to figure out how the bullet thingys load into pistol, start talking about your mother's anguish, cry, hold hands, hug..........and then drop the whole thing altogether. With several stern angry protest letters........of course. Mean while the whole planet would be turned on it's head. This would be the biggest event of human history minus alien first contact. We would still be alone in the universe.......but we would no longer be alone on the planet! How many are there? Do they need our assistance? Did we screw up with that giant timber sale? How bout that dam project? So forth and so on. In fact it would be such a mania effect.........the method of HOW the species was revealed to science would quickly become a foot note in history. Meanwhile you are put on a token trial in which you claim you thought it was a hairy bear.........charging.........with foaming fangs.......and you shot only to stop it from tearing you limb from limb (while sobbing hysterically) and that would be the end of that. The end. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Transformer Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 If somone identifies a sasquatch with a high degree of certainty and then decides to harvest it to collect a type specimen I would not fault them. I just don't like the cloak and dagger nonsense that has been going on with this story as it matches so many others that turned out to be nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted June 11, 2012 Admin Share Posted June 11, 2012 If somone identifies a sasquatch with a high degree of certainty and then decides to harvest it to collect a type specimen I would not fault them. I just don't like the cloak and dagger nonsense that has been going on with this story as it matches so many others that turned out to be nothing. I mean posting a picture.......of a sketch.......of a creature that you failed to harvest (for science)? Why should I really care? I think most of us can describe the main attributes of the mysterious Sasquatch right? Hairy, cone shaped head, big feet.........long arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I just found out about all of this only about a month ago and already its driving me nuts. I couldnt imagine following this story for 2 years!! I pray everything is on the level, but it kind of reminds me of the starchild skull. Mr Pye is going to rock the human race with his dna discovery but in the mean time you can buy his books and dvds or pay to see him talk. The thing that gives me hope is that nobody is trying to sell me anything before the dna results are final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indiefoot Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Norseman, whether science eventually decides to place BF in the Genus homo, that will work itself out. I pulled a qouote from your post and would suggest that you yourself aren't sure. This would be the biggest event of human history minus alien first contact. We would still be alone in the universe.......but we would no longer be alone on the planet! How many are there? Do they need our assistance? Did we screw up with that giant timber sale? How bout that dam project? So forth and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlurryMonster Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) I just have to step in for a moment and say how much I agree with Norseman's post above. I'm being completely serious when I say that might be the best post I've ever seen from a footer on this website. Great job, man, it's really nice to see someone actually thinking critically about this issue and not giving it special treatment because of personal feelings. I've posted some similar sentiments and been scoffed at because pf how unpopular a realistic viewpoint actually is, and I just felt the need to pat you on the back for a great post. As someone who has seriosuly studied anthropology, I agree with everything you said. Both about the ability to use tools (if they could, they would - that's just how it works), and the circumstances of discovery; anyone that could find one would be a hero to "science." I would also like to add that your figure of 800ccs is on the low end of the H. erectus brain size spectrum, and that their brains got as big as 1100ccs (almost as big as ours); in fact, the first documented stone tool users - Homo habilus - had a brain size of 600ccs and even they could fasion basic stone tools. Edited June 12, 2012 by MikeG Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incorrigible1 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Agreed. That old Norse guy should know his posting actually expanded my outlook, a little. Was pleased to be the first + he received for that recommended posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernyahoo Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Well, there is the pesky problem of knowing what tools bigfoot does or doesn't use. No facts are no facts. I personally ascribe to the notion that necessity is the mother of invention. So there is the question of what causes sasquatch to be brawny. Was it the inability to make tools as a selective pressure towards physical prowess or was the physical prowess always there, and thus precludes the need for tools beyond a stone or club? I think Sas has demonstrated that he's not making many mistakes, and if it was a mere animal it would have been proven long ago. People who can't see the humanity in bigfoot grossly underestimate this creature IMO. Edited June 12, 2012 by southernyahoo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Yes, but only superficially. In one of those photos the subject has the strength of sixteen humans.........and does not construct tools or fire. Something the Homo lineage has been doing for at least 400,000 years. From a anthropological standpoint that is a pretty big knock against Sasquatch belonging to the Homo line. We are not talking about "Uncle Bob" the big poor dumb hobo guy that lives under the bridge somewhere........... Sasquatch doesn't have within his race evidently ANY member that can figure out how to flake obsidian, or make a fish spear, or construct a bow/drill to start a fire, even though for millennia he has supposedly peered out from the shadows watching his "little cousins" do it in a mundane fashion day in and day out. Well gee, many people will say..........."Sasquatch doesn't need such things, he is at one with nature". And I say that is a load of mystical, blunt toking, PacNW hippie hogwash if I have ever heard it. They are right about one thing........he DOESN'T need such things, and the reason being is very simple. The reason is is that he lacks that Homo spark of creativity and ingenuity in his brain that separates us from the rest of our primate cousins. And I'm not talking about modern humans and the computer age.............I'm talking about a lowly 800 cc brain cased Homo Erectus that one day looked appraisingly at a rock and decided to try and flake a hand axe out of it. The hand axe enriched his life and made it easier for him to exist in this harsh world. Something that any INTELLIGENT creature is going to strive for.........a better life for it's children. The rest of the animal kingdom is at peace to do it as it's always been done..........because that's the way it's always been done. Like cattle grazing in a circular fashion in a field. Until the door closes on the niche they are currently occupying and their race blinks out into the fossil record. I'm sorry Vil, I love you and you know that, I just very adamantly reject this line of reasoning that seems to be growing on this site. If anybody would like to step up to the plate and explain to us why Sasquatch is the lone Homo exception to the rule in a scientific fashion? I'm all ears. Next let's seriously talk about this for a minute. You see Sasquatch........you shoot Sasquatch......you call authorities.......they roll up on scene and arrest you because...........why? Because you shot a new species of Homo that shares the same Genus as you? "Sir.........it looks like you have shot some archaic form of human here, so I'm afraid I've got to book you down town!" Sure............that could happen.......right before the Smithsonian and every other scientific institution on the PLANET calls you and offers you an honorary position on their staff with a giant salary and a "please don't forget to bring the body" reminder as well. The mayor would personally let you go ONLY after a publicity stunt that included the town naming a major avenue after you..... Sure.........you'd get death threats.........from bunny huggers......the same bunny huggers that don't have the heart to kill BUNNIES! They would pool their money together, buy a pistol, draw straws on who would cap you, try to figure out how the bullet thingys load into pistol, start talking about your mother's anguish, cry, hold hands, hug..........and then drop the whole thing altogether. With several stern angry protest letters........of course. Mean while the whole planet would be turned on it's head. This would be the biggest event of human history minus alien first contact. We would still be alone in the universe.......but we would no longer be alone on the planet! How many are there? Do they need our assistance? Did we screw up with that giant timber sale? How bout that dam project? So forth and so on. In fact it would be such a mania effect.........the method of HOW the species was revealed to science would quickly become a foot note in history. Meanwhile you are put on a token trial in which you claim you thought it was a hairy bear.........charging.........with foaming fangs.......and you shot only to stop it from tearing you limb from limb (while sobbing hysterically) and that would be the end of that. The end. Wow. Did you light up a smoke after all that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlurryMonster Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) It could also be argued that many bigfooters use too much special pleading to cover up for the lack of evidence, or things that point to bigfoot not existing at all. In the case of manufactured tools, they happen to be a huge asset. Nature is all about survival, and tools make that easier. It's why hominins have been making them for 2.5 million years and ended up at the top of the food chain. What makes tools (and culture) so useful is that a species that has the use of them can adapt to things at a much faster rate than evolution allows. That's huge, and a concept that few on this board consider when talking about bigfoot not needing tools because of size. The entire concept of tools means that something doesn't need to be be big, or to work as hard to survive (and doesn't need to grow fur in cold climates, etc.). The very idea that many propose about bigfoot adapting traits so it won't need culture is the very antithesis of what is known about the evolution of culture. Nothing that has ever gained culture has ever given it up, and frankly, I see no reason why anything would (before you list them, I've read every reason given here, and I don't buy any of them). The idea just doesn't make sense. As far as animals not making mistakes, that's just more reasoning I can't follow. Every species of animal has at least a few members that do stupid or crazy things. Name any North American animal, no matter how smart or elusive, and you can find stats showing that it has at least been captured on a game cam or hit by a car recently. Just last week a group of rare gorillas (300 indivuduals in the subspecies) was caught on a game cam in Africa. Animals that exist leave traces, bigfoot doesn't. It's not about discounting the humanity of bigfoot (who said humans aren't animals anyway?), it's about looking at things the way they are and making conclusions based of known facts. Edited June 12, 2012 by MikeG Reference to mis-spelling removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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