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Justin Smeja Incident?


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vinchyfoot
31 minutes ago, Huntster said:

 

This is exactly what one would expect out of a sasquatch shooting by a person with a poaching attitude (like Smeja), and this is exactly how the Smeja storyline goes: his first reaction upon seeing it is to shoot it, he then has a young one die literally in his arms, and he then has the guilt of what he's done wash over him. He drops everything and flees.

 

It all fits, and there's his partner there to witness it. It's very credible, but without proof, it's just another story.

 

 

Yeah, sure. "Science" to the rescue. 

 

Frankly, I was wrong. We don't need a poacher to prove sasquatches exist. We need a killer cop: somebody who will kill one at the drop of a hat, then drag the carcass in as proof instead of letting guilt overcome him and leaving the carcass behind.

 

Why exactly is science the enemy praytell?

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Wooly Booger
26 minutes ago, vinchyfoot said:

 

Why exactly is science the enemy praytell?

Science is not the enemy. Never has been. Some members on the forum seem to think so. But the scientists are the very people we need to bring on board if we ever hope to have this mystery solved. 

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Arvedis

The scientists who get involved in BF research end up getting out quick when they are torched online or when their opinion is put in context of BF believer advocate. Either the BF community turns on them or like Meldrum you are put in position to constantly have to dodge criticism from the academic industry. There's a reason why Meldrum has his own journal. He can control what is said. He only selectively publishes his stuff outside of what he can control.

 

The instant a credentialed individual (masters, PhD, whatever) gets a quote in print and is associated with BF, their career is in jeopardy, unless like Meldrum, you have the backing of at least 1 person in a position of academic authority to go to bat for you.

 

Another example is Dr. Mayor. She means well and is qualified but she doesn't really have the respect of the BF community or her academic peers. People are polite to her and some folks do take expedition BF seriously because they don't know it is staged baloney. Show me 1 academic peer who cares a wink about Mayor's eDNA results, which should have at least kicked up some debate. Instead, nothing but crickets.

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BlackRockBigfoot
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The only way we are ever going to get the scientific establishment on board is to present them with irrefutable evidence…i.e. a body.  That’s it.  And it won’t matter who provides the body…someone  who believes that they just bagged an undiscovered ape or someone who thinks that they just shot a Zeti Reticulan.  
 

You would think that the more exposure the  subject of Bigfoot gets…that it would become a bit more reputable.  But, instead it seems to become more ridiculous the more mainstream attention it gets.  I guess that’s a byproduct of some of the more visible Bigfoot related media like Mountain Monsters.  
 

Scientists work for some sort of organization; which is either in pursuit of monetary gain or academic prestige.  The pursuit of proving the existence of Bigfoot does not seem like it offers either to those organizations.  Like everyone else, scientists are going to spend their working hours on what their bosses want.  There are obviously a few tenured exceptions like Meldrum, but they are in the vast majority.  
 

Everyone seems to have this impression that if we just don’t act TOO crazy, the scientific community is all of a sudden going to have a change of heart and invite the more polite segments of the Bigfoot community to sit at the adults table.  News flash.  They think that we are ALL crazy…whether you are attempting to approach this from a (crypto)zoological standpoint or if you are running around looking for portals with Dr J.  
 

Hunsters right.  We need someone who has the moral flexibility to pull the trigger on one of these things, but has the mental wherewithal to handle the aftermath in a responsible manner.  The scientific community isn’t going to be of any help until that body is delivered.  There’s no money or prestige in it until then.

 

Once we get the body, then we will find out which of us were right and which of us were wrong.  

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BlackRockBigfoot
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5 hours ago, Arvedis said:

The scientists who get involved in BF research end up getting out quick when they are torched online or when their opinion is put in context of BF believer advocate. Either the BF community turns on them or like Meldrum you are put in position to constantly have to dodge criticism from the academic industry. There's a reason why Meldrum has his own journal. He can control what is said. He only selectively publishes his stuff outside of what he can control.

 

The instant a credentialed individual (masters, PhD, whatever) gets a quote in print and is associated with BF, their career is in jeopardy, unless like Meldrum, you have the backing of at least 1 person in a position of academic authority to go to bat for you.

 

Another example is Dr. Mayor. She means well and is qualified but she doesn't really have the respect of the BF community or her academic peers. People are polite to her and some folks do take expedition BF seriously because they don't know it is staged baloney. Show me 1 academic peer who cares a wink about Mayor's eDNA results, which should have at least kicked up some debate. Instead, nothing but crickets.

Yeah.  No one even seemed to care enough to challenge it.

 

 

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Huntster
12 hours ago, vinchyfoot said:

Why exactly is science the enemy praytell?

 

Science isn't "the enemy". It's the religion I don't need.

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Huntster
3 hours ago, BlackRockBigfoot said:

The only way we are ever going to get the scientific establishment on board is to present them with irrefutable evidence…i.e. a body.......

 

Yup. They're the pointy heads who profess what it is after somebody provides it for them to pontificate about. Most folks might need that, but I don't. At this point, the only thing I want is to see one in real life. I really don't need somebody to tell me that they exist. I'm beyond that.

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vinchyfoot
9 hours ago, Huntster said:

 

Science isn't "the enemy". It's the religion I don't need.

 

Yet they are different things. If you want the critter recognized as real, science will have a say. Science isn't a religion, it's applied learning, maybe subject to its own internal politics, but name an industry or similar that isn't.

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vinchyfoot
18 hours ago, Arvedis said:

The scientists who get involved in BF research end up getting out quick when they are torched online or when their opinion is put in context of BF believer advocate. Either the BF community turns on them or like Meldrum you are put in position to constantly have to dodge criticism from the academic industry. There's a reason why Meldrum has his own journal. He can control what is said. He only selectively publishes his stuff outside of what he can control.

 

The instant a credentialed individual (masters, PhD, whatever) gets a quote in print and is associated with BF, their career is in jeopardy, unless like Meldrum, you have the backing of at least 1 person in a position of academic authority to go to bat for you.

 

Another example is Dr. Mayor. She means well and is qualified but she doesn't really have the respect of the BF community or her academic peers. People are polite to her and some folks do take expedition BF seriously because they don't know it is staged baloney. Show me 1 academic peer who cares a wink about Mayor's eDNA results, which should have at least kicked up some debate. Instead, nothing but crickets.

 

There is no "Bigfoot Community" theres a hodge podge of folks with interest in the subject, some are Finding Bigfoot Fanbois, some actually research, others want it to be woosish new age nonsense, and they all bicker etc, it's more of series of mud slinging sand piles than a community.

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vinchyfoot
12 hours ago, BlackRockBigfoot said:

The only way we are ever going to get the scientific establishment on board is to present them with irrefutable evidence…i.e. a body.  That’s it.  And it won’t matter who provides the body…someone  who believes that they just bagged an undiscovered ape or someone who thinks that they just shot a Zeti Reticulan.  
 

You would think that the more exposure the  subject of Bigfoot gets…that it would become a bit more reputable.  But, instead it seems to become more ridiculous the more mainstream attention it gets.  I guess that’s a byproduct of some of the more visible Bigfoot related media like Mountain Monsters.  
 

Scientists work for some sort of organization; which is either in pursuit of monetary gain or academic prestige.  The pursuit of proving the existence of Bigfoot does not seem like it offers either to those organizations.  Like everyone else, scientists are going to spend their working hours on what their bosses want.  There are obviously a few tenured exceptions like Meldrum, but they are in the vast majority.  
 

Everyone seems to have this impression that if we just don’t act TOO crazy, the scientific community is all of a sudden going to have a change of heart and invite the more polite segments of the Bigfoot community to sit at the adults table.  News flash.  They think that we are ALL crazy…whether you are attempting to approach this from a (crypto)zoological standpoint or if you are running around looking for portals with Dr J.  
 

Hunsters right.  We need someone who has the moral flexibility to pull the trigger on one of these things, but has the mental wherewithal to handle the aftermath in a responsible manner.  The scientific community isn’t going to be of any help until that body is delivered.  There’s no money or prestige in it until then.

 

Once we get the body, then we will find out which of us were right and which of us were wrong.  

 

1) Mountain Monsters is everything wrong with Bigfoot television, if that's the one with Trapper... it's nothing more than live action redneck scooby doo (Sheep squatch my ass.....)

2) Yeah you'll likely need a body, but it's not moral flexibility.... that's pc for possible murder.

9 hours ago, Huntster said:

 

Yup. They're the pointy heads who profess what it is after somebody provides it for them to pontificate about. Most folks might need that, but I don't. At this point, the only thing I want is to see one in real life. I really don't need somebody to tell me that they exist. I'm beyond that.

 

Your contempt for them is obvious but at the end of the day, tehy are still the ones who would be the ones to declare it real or not.

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hiflier
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13 hours ago, BlackRockBigfoot said:

We need someone who has the moral flexibility to pull the trigger on one of these things, but has the mental wherewithal to handle the aftermath in a responsible manner.  The scientific community isn’t going to be of any help until that body is delivered.

 

Then maybe it's time for everyone to stop tiptoeing around the pro-kill approach. We ALL know physical evidence (body/skeleton/DNA) is required. REQUIRED. Has anyone bothered to even ask what the "time-sensitive" evidence was that the Olympic Project collected back a year ago in February 2020? Doubt it. What is wrong with you folks? Looking through this entire Forum illustrates that only a tiny fraction of it concerns true research and discovery discussion. The rest is guns, knives and gear in order to give one a sense that they're really into actual scientific discovery. Is anyone set up to actually take a DNA sample from a footprint? I doubt that, too. Does anyone have a lab to take a possible sample to? Probably not. Just what are you folks doing about scientific discover except copping out with the tired old mantra of only wanting to see one for oneself?

 

There is a level of reality here about this creature and it's future which, IMHO is nothing but talk. It takes a body or some other physical evidence. Period. That footprint? Yep, it's cool, now we can hang on the edge of our respective seats for the next one. More audio? Sure, why not. How about a little eyeshine? Yep, that's good, gets mentioned all the time. But real scientific discovery? Nope, not for decades, even though the path to discovery is well known by all, as well as those who came before us. Don't get me wrong, people do try, but only trying the same things over and over, and discussing gear instead of scientific methodology erodes one's credibility and calls into question true intent. Personally, I think things here could be tightened up a bit as far as focus goes....or simply just keep on skipping th serious discovery part altogether and honestly admit the atmosphere of how things truly are here.

 

Or....to repeat....stop tiptoeing around the pro-kill philosophy, or a DNA collection program, and get serious. Neither of which is at the forefront of this Forum other than the nod, or some kind or honorable mention just to cover one's bases. Vinchyfoot said it best, there's no real community beyond its fragmented condition regarding what folks think passes for research.

 

Just tossing my two rocks into the camp. Nothing personal here beyond general observation of how seriously or non-seriously this community embraces or has become desensitized to the importance and magnitude of the discovery issue. What I see is not encouraging.

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Arvedis
2 hours ago, vinchyfoot said:

There is no "Bigfoot Community" theres a hodge podge of folks with interest in the subject, some are Finding Bigfoot Fanbois, some actually research, others want it to be woosish new age nonsense, and they all bicker etc, it's more of series of mud slinging sand piles than a community.

 

That's not an accurate observation. Every community is a hodgepdge of personalities, every neighborhood, every collection of people. In squatchery, people do come and go and there is certainly a steady stream of noobs on social media. That has always been the case. But what everyone has in common is the search for answers. To me, that makes it a community.

 

I'm Finding Bigfoot's worst critic and if given the opportunity, I would look Matt Moneymaker in the eye and ask him "How much crack did you inhale before each taping of the show?". Red Bull, right. That dude is the biggest joke of the biggest of jokes in Bigfoot history.

 

But, I keep my opinions to myself most of the time. There are good people working hard in the field. Will they get anywhere, who knows. So long as sincere interest is there I don't mind what their beliefs are. The fraudsters need to be called out by knowledgeable folks at the very least.

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Wooly Booger
25 minutes ago, Arvedis said:

 

 

25 minutes ago, Arvedis said:

I'm Finding Bigfoot's worst critic and if given the opportunity, I would look Matt Moneymaker in the eye and ask him "How much crack did you inhale before each taping of the show?". Red Bull, right. That dude is the biggest joke of the biggest of jokes in Bigfoot history.

In the meanwhile, Matt is shaking his Moneymaker all the way to the bank. 

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Arvedis

^ it's true, Matt is a talented businessman, with a massive fleece of Wally Hersom. I don't know about anyone else but if I was spinning my wheels and sitting on millions like Wally, I think I could find better business partners than Matt.

 

This pattern of fleecing is common in Silicon Valley. We have a saying, "doesn't matter how much you made off that deal, you're still the same #@&+*!+"

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hiflier
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59 minutes ago, Arvedis said:

.....people do come and go......

 

Not a good sign.

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