Is The Skookum Cast Still Considered To Be A Potential Bigfoot Lay?

[Guest LAL]

Oh, and just to clarify which direction those elk tracks were going, this is what an elk hoof looks like:

[kitakaze]

So the elk placed it's feet outside of the impression, just like this:

The whole feet in impression argument is now out.

[Guest LAL]

Got anything new, kitakaze?

I'm enjoying the video - again. It answers all sorts of questions such as the length of the forearm, the position, the behavior - even how far the reach to the fruit would have been. I'm surprised at how much was thought of at the time at the site. Much more informative than just another look at one of the copies with a cow elk hovering over it, IMHO.

[Guest parnassus]

So to sum up, from the video and this thread, LAL, there is not a shred of objective evidence that this imprint in a mud puddle was made by a giant primate...only the wishful thinking of the hardest core Bigfoot believers trying to make a good television show? No footprints or handprints or hair or DNA or evidence of ingress or egress. Not to mention the fact that there is no reason to believe that primates lie down in freezing mud. And they were never able to publish this in a peer reviewed journal.

While there is objective evidence of elk in this mud puddle, DNA, hoofprints, hair, and this conforms to the classic behavior of elk. Not to mention the apparent fit of the imprint to the body of an elk. Your denial is that you simply won't accept the known fact that elk don't have to stand on their front feet to get out of a lay.

I think you can see why impartial reviewers would see the supposed primate as the "levitator" (? wearing a whole body hairnet).

[Guest LAL]

Frankly, I wonder if DY would have been so quick to use his ichnologist's skills on a painted copy if he'd seen the video with the close-ups of the actual impression first. There are possible foot and fingerprints and one (one is a number, right?) hair identified as primate.

So what if there was filming for a TV show? Does this mean the impression was deliberately misidentified or faked?

Y'know I really wasn't all that convinced but after seeing the video several times and reading all these skeptical arguments (again) I think I am now. If others want to see elk (or casting artifacts or guys in a suit) that's their right. Free country.

[Guest]

only the wishful thinking of the hardest core Bigfoot believers trying to make a good television show?

Careful, one of those "hardest core Bigfoot believers" is a forum member.

No footprints or handprints or hair or DNA or evidence of ingress or egress. Not to mention the fact that there is no reason to believe that primates lie down in freezing mud

But plenty of morphology evidence as explained by Dr Meldrum, Dr Schaller, Dr Swindler, et al.

. And they were never able to publish this in a peer reviewed journal.

Argument from authority variant.

this conforms to the classic behavior of elk. Not to mention the apparent fit of the imprint to the body of an elk.

Not according to the gamekeepers and other experts consulted, including Dr Schaller, who is both a primate AND ungulate expert. Also not according to the results of experiments with elk parts conducted by Rick Noll, et al.

Once again, you are in error where facts are concerned.

[Guest LAL]

Careful, one of those "hardest core Bigfoot believers" is a forum member.

I'm counting two.

[Guest StankApe]

I don't think even Courtney Love can be listed as potential Bigfoot lay anymore!!!

sorry guys..... I couldn't resist!

Edited October 21, 2011 by StankApe

[Guest LAL]

Here's the scan (from Jeff's book, of course):

[Guest RedRatSnake]

StankApe LMAO

Tim ~

[Guest]

-----------------

I also have in the data, the words of Brian Smith in Washington who wrote to me out of the blue in 2008, telling me the the Skookum Cast

was contrived - by Derek Randles and Rick Noll who were at the time under extreme pressure from Moneymaker to produce something for the

Discovery film crew....the elk wallow to them looked promising.

Brian Smith upon learning of the fraud, went to Meldrum and told him. So Jeff was fully aware all along of the hoax possibility yet

he went ahead with the BFRO's publicity train and his own portrayal in his 2004 book, "Legend Meets Science."

Brian Smith, I did not know before this email exchange in 2008 but he worked with Jeff closely on the NAAP project and

also was party to Jeff's finding BF tracks in the Blue mountains of Walla Walla, Washington yet he dropped Smith when told.

I asked Derek about it, he was cordial at first, then blew his top. All I did was

ask and it got ugly. The photographs that were taken the day before the alleged finding of the skookum cast was

apparently the reason for the blowup between Noll and Randles - so I was told. Meldrum dropped Smith like a hot rock -

You can take what you like from it, I can produce

those emails, but why? The damage has been done - the principles continue to deny deny deny.

Bobbie Short 10/18/11

postscript: I think of all this rehash, what bothers me the most is that critics, bloggers and newomers don't bother to think for themselves.

They simply believe (seemingly without question) credentialed men or others with name recognition and do no deep investigations couple with it helps to

have been around when all this went down. The DECEPTION by seniors in this field, and those with the bully pulpit access is mind boggling and very real !!!

I've seen it first hand. There is no wonder this research has been bogged down for 44 years, no question in my mind that research has been

deliberately misled. For all the zoologists and biologists and newspapermen who inspected the skookum cast, they called NO elk experts, not one.

You can read elk expert Dr. Anton Roblewski's assessment in Perez's newsletter or here:

http://www.bigfooten...ookum_hokum.htm

Utter BS! Derek and I had a falling out over the picture of the mannequin in Ripely's BION. That is old news and was written about on the web. Brian has never said anything of the kind and was never left in the cold by Jeff. Bobbie should be ashamed of herself for following suit with the likes of Perez. I guess some people just like to stir the pot, since they can't cook worth beans. Wasson said it best when defining the types this subject attracts.

For everyone else who wonders what I can hang my hat on... it's called a hook on the wall.

[Guest RedRatSnake]

I guess some people just like to stir the pot, since they can't cook worth beans.

When the pot is only stocked with Bigfoot and not have any other ingredients, It's going to Stink ~

Tim

[Guest]

I think that if sierra and/or Bobbie Short has even a shred of evidence to support his claims they should pony up. They're accusing a credentialed scientist AND forum member of deliberate fraud.

[Guest]

As someone who even in his non-BFF moderating life, tries to resolve conflicts where possible, I have a suggestion that will end this argument for good !

Can't we all just agree to what's obvious here?

A Bigfoot stumbling around in the dark, lured by the smell of delicious moldering apples, tripped over a bedded down Elk, resulting in an embarrassing kerfuffle of flailing Elk and Bigfoot appendages - resulting in a "lay" with characteristics of both creatures.....

Now.. can I lock the thread, and all will promise not to ever start another one ????

(please?)

Just kidding... thought i'd try to lighten the mood a bit is all...

Art

[Guest LAL]

DDA, welcome to the dinner table conversation.

Can you give us the details of what seems to be your picture that was posted on this thread. If it's an elk lay as it appears to be how did the animal get out of the impression without leaving hoof prints in the middle?

Art, please don't close the thread. I'll go get my mop and bucket.

ETA: If it's not elk what is it?

Edited October 21, 2011 by LAL