The Echo Incident

[Painthorse]

Nobody in the TBRC saw them, and they didn't see us (nor did they see the animal, as far as we've been told). As I've said before, they were ~80 yards away with a lot of dense forest between them and Daryl. We assume they were both on the trail and left in the truck together.

Thank you for answering and your patience in doing so.

[Guest]

I'm surprised people are even willing to discuss their business on here, without getting totally frustrated and just walking away....

I would ask they anyone asking a question please read the statement and the preceding posts. There's beginning to be some repetition in the questions.

WRT kill/no kill and safe hunting techniques, I don't consider my roll here to debate such things. The k/nk debate is a waste of time as there's nothing anyone can say that will change anyone's mind. I won't second guess what happened in the few seconds Daryl had to decide what to do since nobody here was there at the time and it's unlikely anyone reading this has ever seen the area where the event took place. Our statement and my comments here have already demonstrated that neither anyone in the TBRC nor the two people on the trail were in danger.

Also, bipto said they waited until things had been cleared up with the family, not cleaned up.

Yes.

[Painthorse]

I hate to beat a dead horse, but...Would attempting to harvest a BF be viewed as hunting? I know in Washington it's against the law to hunt with a shotgun that carries more than a few slugs. I have no idea what OK game laws are, but doubt that using a 9-shot tactical shotgun would be alright. Not that it matters to me, because going after a Sasquatch is unprecedented, but I just wouldn't talk about it. And choice of weapon seems odd. A tac. shotgun is more of a home defense/house clearing weapon. If he had a regular hunting style 12 gauge, I doubt he misses. My brother has a similar weapon to Colyer's in his F&W truck, along with an AR-15, but it's more for dispatching, or extremely close range combat. Choice of weapon, IMO, cost them a kill that day. It's a d*mn shame. I haven't heard too many shooting stories, but I'd imagine it was probably the closest shot ever taken. I, like Parn, use a

.44 as my side arm(Ruger SuperBlackhawk) when I bow-hunt, and would think that a weapon like that would be a better suited for a close range shot on a BF, mainly because it is easy to carry, and you wouldn't have to go back to grab a rifle, and isn't cumbersome like lugging one around on your shoulder through the woods. Like was touched on earlier in the post...If your intent is to kill a BF, be prepared.

Maybe the possibility is open that the weapon that was being carried was for protection only, not to kill a b/f but the opportunity presented itself and the shots were taken. Due to the fact that the property owner said that there were bear and large cats in the area, maybe it was his weapon of his choice as is the .44 is the weapon of choice for you and Parn. I think it's the individuals choice of what each is more confident in carrying for protection. Other than that all we are doing is assuming why what other people do and for what reason.

Just my .02

[Guest]

Edit- Then there was the guy in the creek bed that ran back to cabin, nephew and girlfriend retreated back. So the sasquatch ran to the creek bed. Based on that, the road that the nephew and neice fled back on ought to go over the creek bed right?

The road and the creek cross a number of times at various points.

So the sasquatch went in the other direction, maybe? If it was a bigfoot, best I can tell. Which would have took it back by the cabin.

We're quite certain the animal went south. There's no reason to believe anything else.

IANAL but I suspect the sheriff, although not citing Colyer, must have pointed out relevant laws and penalties relating to discharge of firearms in OK ( not all of which concern hunting), and the nephew's agreement not to press charges was an important factor.

Is that correct Bipto?

I'm not privy to the specifics of conversations anyone had, but I can say we were forthcoming, called them first, and worked with the family to ensure the incident was resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

Bipto, I may have missed it, but did Daryl describe the reaction of the creature when fired upon? It's movements have been described as fluid and quiet but was it nearly still when he shot, then ran off during the remaining shots? I'm trying to imagine what a guy in a gullie suit would do in that situation, in his right mind he would drop to the ground and start hollering "dont shoot".

As far as I know, it just kept going.

Did anyone see the "wood ape" other than Colyer? Diaz was following 50 to 60 feet behind. Colyer was rounding a bend on a "path" or "road" when he saw the creature. Did this bend preclude Diaz from seeing the sasquatch? Colyer and Diaz were moving to investigate a sound they had heard before. On this BFF thread they were investigating a "knocking" sound, a term associated with Bigfoot activity. On the TBRC website, they were investigating a "banging".

Daryl was the only one who saw it. Alex was still behind the bend in the road and could no see the clearing. Same sound, different words. It was more of a banging sound. I shall endeavor to be more consistent.

* Did they hear it moving through the woods away from them? Did they hear the massive creature move through the wooded area before the shot? Did Lawrence hear any large animal moving through the woods at this time?

Already answered, except to add Travis didn't hear the animal either.

* Was it definitely established that the iced tea was left there by Branson's nephew's girlfriend?

Yes

* At Honobia, Branson alleged he had no idea that TBRC personnel on his property might try to kill a sasquatch. Is that true?

I don't know what he knew.

* When TBRC went back to conclude its Operation Endurance, did it agree not to try to collect a Bigfoot?

No.

* Since Branson and others believe Bigfoot are "people", can TBRC be certain Colyer was attempting to kill an ape/Bigfoot, not a human/sasquatch?

Depends on your definition of "people".

* Were any Bigfoot footprints found at the scene of the event?

As the statement says, members of Echo could follow its trail through the woods, though there were not any tracks to cast.

* Was the "wood ape" in a heavily shaded area, with the shade obscuring a clean view?

It was on the edge of the clearing, but it was daylight and Daryl had a clear view of the animal.

* If the wood ape was seen moving away at an angle to Colyer, and it possessed long head hair, how certain is Colyer that the creature had a conical shaped head?

Glad to see you dropped the quotes around wood ape. WRT to the head, Daryl could clearly see it was conical.

* Did he smell the "wood ape" at any time?

Yes.

* What explanation does Colyer offer for taking the shot and not bringing down his target?

None. He believes the buckshot hit it, but it appears the slugs did not.

Edited October 30, 2011 by bipto

[Guest]

I don't disagree, Paint...As far as a self-defense weapon, that would definitely suffice. I don't think that was the case, however. If I recall everything correctly he went back to retrieve said weapon, and their intent was to kill a BF, which I am perfectly fine with. The results speak for themselves, though. Bad choice, if hunting was the reason for choosing said weapon. And the burst method wasn't exactly the right choice either. I'm totally arm-chairing my opinion, but all I'm saying is be better prepared if you are actually attempting to hunt a BF, and practice better decision making skills. People can say adrenaline, situation, etc, but I've stood twenty feet from a screaming cougar, and 75 yds from a BF, and truth be told, the emotions feel no different. You still have to keep some sort of composure, and use good decision making skills, otherwise you don't belong in the woods with a weapon. I'm not saying D.C was out of control at all, but rushing a shot has cost everyone an animal at one point, or another.

[Guest Jodie]

Well what is done is done, I hate it that you couldn't find the bigfoot. My thought is the nephew might have been mistaken for the bigfoot, for whatever reason, that the banging/knocking was the car doors. But if they heard or partially tracked it heading south, then that eliminates the nephew in my mind.

[Guest]

Hopefully they get another shot at it in the future.

[Guest]

Wadr = With all due respect.

Thanks SweetSusiq.

Thank you, I did not know that.Wow, I learn something new everyday..

[Guest]

I hate it that you couldn't find the bigfoot. My thought is the nephew might have been mistaken for the bigfoot, for whatever reason, that the banging/knocking was the car doors.

Simply impossible. Daryl knows what people look like and how they're different than sasquatch, they were nowhere near him, and the sound they were investigating was consistent with others the team heard before and after. I understand your concern, but I'm saying what you describe could not have been the case.

Edited October 30, 2011 by bipto

[Guest]

Please allow me to take off my "moderator hat" for a moment, and just make a comment as a regular member...?

(in other words this isnt an "official" statement by a member of staff)

Deep sigh... yet another derailed thread.. as it turns into yet another "kill -vs- no kill", and a debate on "safe hunting procedures"....

I'm surprised sometimes that people are even willing to discuss their business on here, without getting totally frustrated and just walking away....

I give up trying to make sense of it...

i'm finding that out rather quickly, I feel bad for the guy, he came one here trying to answer questions and all they do is throw him under the bus.then the questions,

what color socks did have on,did he eat a full breakfast,how fast does a European sparrow fly, and the the hits just keep on comin'

[Guest]

I don't disagree, Paint...As far as a self-defense weapon, that would definitely suffice. I don't think that was the case, however. If I recall everything correctly he went back to retrieve said weapon, and their intent was to kill a BF, which I am perfectly fine with. The results speak for themselves, though. Bad choice, if hunting was the reason for choosing said weapon. And the burst method wasn't exactly the right choice either. I'm totally arm-chairing my opinion, but all I'm saying is be better prepared if you are actually attempting to hunt a BF, and practice better decision making skills. People can say adrenaline, situation, etc, but I've stood twenty feet from a screaming cougar, and 75 yds from a BF, and truth be told, the emotions feel no different. You still have to keep some sort of composure, and use good decision making skills, otherwise you don't belong in the woods with a weapon. I'm not saying D.C was out of control at all, but rushing a shot has cost everyone an animal at one point, or another.

I agree with Art1972 that too much is being made concerning the weapon/shooting aspects of this encounter.

Let me just say that after due diligence in researching my own selection of firearm, and spending time talking with other hunters, (both of known animal and bigfoot), my weapon of choice is a sawed-off 12 gauge shotgun. With all of the brush and trees in my research area, I don't expect to get a long range shot of a bigfoot creature with a scoped rifle.

With the over population of wild hogs in my area, it just seems a better self defense weapon, too.

I am sure Mr. Colyer probably thought the same way, if his purpose was to shoot and kill a bigfoot creature.

[Guest]

I hate to beat a dead horse, but...Would attempting to harvest a BF be viewed as hunting? I know in Washington it's against the law to hunt with a shotgun that carries more than a few slugs. I have no idea what OK game laws are, but doubt that using a 9-shot tactical shotgun would be alright. Not that it matters to me, because going after a Sasquatch is unprecedented, but I just wouldn't talk about it. And choice of weapon seems odd. A tac. shotgun is more of a home defense/house clearing weapon. If he had a regular hunting style 12 gauge, I doubt he misses. My brother has a similar weapon to Colyer's in his F&W truck, along with an AR-15, but it's more for dispatching, or extremely close range combat. Choice of weapon, IMO, cost them a kill that day. It's a d*mn shame. I haven't heard too many shooting stories, but I'd imagine it was probably the closest shot ever taken. I, like Parn, use a

.44 as my side arm(Ruger SuperBlackhawk) when I bow-hunt, and would think that a weapon like that would be a better suited for a close range shot on a BF, mainly because it is easy to carry, and you wouldn't have to go back to grab a rifle, and isn't cumbersome like lugging one around on your shoulder through the woods. Like was touched on earlier in the post...If your intent is to kill a BF, be prepared.

I guess you don't know a thing about ballistics,because if you did, you would not be saying that a 44 mag hand gun is a better weapon than a 12 guage with slugs.sorry bud,but

physics will prove you wrong every time.

[Guest]

I guess you don't know a thing about ballistics,because if you did, you would not be saying that a 44 mag hand gun is a better weapon than a 12 guage with slugs.sorry bud,but

physics will prove you wrong every time.

Ballistics? I don't remember ever talking about ballistics. I stated that it would be easier to carry in the brush, if close-range shooting was the concern. Didn't he state that he had to 'grab' the weapon? I assumed that that meant he wasn't carrying it at the time...That's all! I shot my first buck with .00 buckshot, and dropped it deader than a doornail. I have no doubt about the lethality of a shotgun with slugs, and .00 buck. None! It's the actual gun that I'd question. A 12 gauge has more variances than most weapons. I have a Winchester Defender, and a Browning Gold Hunter with a 28" barrel. Would you think that both of those '12 gauges' shoot the same? If he had a standard 12 gauge, I doubt we are having this conversation. I just don't understand the logic behind having a shorter barreled weapon. And as far as someone telling me a sawed off shotgun is the right gun...C'mon! Sure, they both are, if you plan on being 10 feet from a Squatch. The purpose of a shorter barrel is for a wider spread of the projectiles for close-range shots. Short-range is a pretty vague statement. I don't really consider 100 feet as close-range. That spread is huge from that range. And as far as the slug goes...Pretty inaccurate with a shorter barrel. Someone could hit a target from a hundred yards with a normal length barrel, but would still be a h*ll of a shot. I'd like to see that same shot with D.C's 1100.

I'm not sure if you're a salesman for Remington, but...Keep on fighting the good fight, brutha! If he chose the right weapon, there'd be a dead Squatch at the business end of the shot. Results trump semantics every time!

But just so we're clear..I don't think the shot would be any easier with a .44, nor do I think it is more suited for a kill shot. I just think it's better for close range because of the ease of being able to move through bush with it, and how effective it is from 'close range'. Plus, if you're carrying a pistol, you could still lug around a more suitable rifle for the shot. I have a .338 Win mag, a .300 Win short-mag, and a .444 Marlin. All of which I would have no problem taking a shot at a BF with. I'd even let one fly with my Matthews. I just wouldn't carry a short barreled shotty in the woods. Just because I am not prepared to copy and paste ballistics from a website, doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.

I hope D.C gets another shot. Like I said, I don't have any problems with him personally. From what I've seen of the guy, I like him. I wish him the best with his research. I just think he should get a different gun if he plans on shooting a BF.

[GuyInIndiana]

The way I picture is that it's possible the couple may have witnessed the Bf....if they did I wonder why it was not mentioned? Maybe they dropped the tea when they saw the BF and not because of the shots or a combination of both lol.

The rational explanation is that THEY were shot at, and Colyer misidentified "the creature" and went into a panic mode with that kind of shooting. The facts speak differently than the claims.

The nephew is lucky he's still alive.

[Guest]

You obviously don't understand the facts or are very comfortable making up your own.