The Echo Incident

[Guest]

To empty the magazine of a 9 shot 12 gauge is 'blind' shooting, but in all fairness, this is a military tactic, and if I'm not mistaken, many TBRC members are X-military, including Colyer.

Let me take my buddies (he's a dealer) Browning BAR out Deer hunting, and empty a clip on Bambi.......not good or safe hunting my friend.

We DON'T need X-military folks out in the woods ready to shoot the place up, empty mags & clips......it's a recipe for disaster.

Tex, I know for a fact that all military men/shooters _do _not_ _empty_ their guns when shooting at a desired animal target. My son is active duty military, and he was taught from a young age how to handle a gun, and he learned hunting rules from his dad. However, He did inherit my families odd talent for being good shots.

So all military members are not "hot shoot em' up" type of shooters, and remember, we have members here who have been and are military members, and from what I've read they are excellent hunters with good judgement.. This is just my thoughts about our members from reading their posts over the years.

Edited November 1, 2011 by SweetSusiq

[Bigtex]

Many of my family members are military, combat veterans, and my Grandfather a well known General......so there's no slight to anybody military.....WE LOVE YOU ALL! However, the tactics & outcome are pure military - that's pretty obvious, and dangerous to the general public. The article said HE emptied his magazine, and thank god he missed.

Also, I am not talking about 'all military shooters', only one guy:)

Edited November 1, 2011 by Bigtex

[Guest NEernElitist]

We have an extensive protocol in place to handle that kind of event, but I'd rather not get into it in public.

Good to know. The stories are intriguing...any BIPCasts in our future covering this topic? Will there be an official press-release issued on this? Sorry if I've already missed those talking points.

[Guest parnassus]

I'm not sure who "we" are, but Daryl is quite clear about what he saw. *You* have no real evidence because you have not seen one.

Approximately, but also covered in brown hair, much more massive, and with a pointy head. Also, in this case, it was seen clearly, with minimal obstruction, and in broad daylight.

Yes, it is. It's very far from where people lurk. See my previous posts about the location. More than hour from the highway, treacherous truck-eating road, multiple locked gates, dead end. It's the perfect habitat for a reclusive primate.

No, the odds aren't that, but you don't have all the facts.

Logical fallacy. Again, prove to *you* it's real, then kill one. Daryl knows they're real and knows what he shot at.

Nobody's perfect, but in this case, we interviewed him very shortly afterward and have other evidence to support his account (tracks, broken branch, etc.).

Again, the dearth of evidence doesn't matter when you see one for yourself.

Glad you like the show, glad you like the forums, hope you're OK with my opinons.

I disagree with almost everything you've written here.

There are vast areas of wilderness in the US, especially in the West, but Texas alone is second only to Alaska for the amount of forested land it contains:

http://www.physorg.com/news157268101.html

There are millions of acres of forest in our country where people seldom go. I know because I've been in many of them. Those areas where people do go don't see large numbers of them and they're not evenly distributed all over the land. They're typically present during certain times of the year and follow known paths (either hiking trails or staying close to roads). Even in Oklahoma, there are places so remote you'd swear you'd travelled back in time. Just because we know about a place and just because people have been to it in the past doesn't mean it's still not remote and essentially void of human activity.

You point of view is not uncommon, but it's also not born out by my own experience and the experiences of other I'm am acquainted with.

That's true, I am the group's official spokesman.

B

Thanks.

Would you agree that pretty much all of the US was logged over by the end of the 19th century, that most of the areas you now cite as forest or wilderness were essentially barren of sizeable trees, and there were no hunting laws, there were powerful firearms and trophy hunters as well as commercial hunters and subsistance hunters, and there were good cameras and photographers and that animals of all sorts and sizes were killed willy nilly?and only in recent years that conservation efforts have resulted in a rebound to what we see today? And yet we have no Bigfoot body parts or trophies or photographs from that period when it was open season on everything and animals had their cover sawed down and hauled away?

[Guest NEernElitist]

Excellent points. In my line of work I am always reminded that bucolic views of trains steaming through woodlands are not accurate representations of how the land has always looked. Much of our forests were clear cut at some point in the past 300 years, especially as railroads moved in. Not all but a fair portion.

I suppose you could argue that these ultimately violent encounters were infrequent and remote enough to make an accurate report impractical. Information was much harder to come by, even 20 years ago.

[Guest]

I am from, live, and research in Texas, but stay the hell away from those TBRC guys. They were much better when Craig was around. In my opinion, you shouldn't be shooting at this creature unless threatened, over their head first, and certainly not the blind shooting this Colyer dude was doing with others (human) around, and unaccounted for. If the story is true, what is that BF gonna do to the next guy who shows his camo'd out self? These things are the ultimate masters of their envirnment, and shooting at them will only **** them off.......not a good idea at all, and good luck to the next human they run across.

My thoughts exactly! Us puny humans would not stand much of a chance even with a powerful weapon unless the shooter could get it up in place in time for emptying his ammo at the attacking BF, if he/she should have time to do that. They are masters of their environments, and could stalk us humans with little effort and take us down if they wished to do so.

I must give congrats to Colyer though, and his TBRC team, for having the encounter. Colyer in the lead, with someone 60-80' feet back, another person down in the creek bed in a possible target escape route, is pure military tactic, and well played. It's just the way it ended that I have a problem with, and VERY unsafe outdoorsmanship.

Whoever shoots one of these creatures for the 'money or fame', or whatever reason, better be ready for some unbelievable public backlash. You will NOT go down as the person who discovered Bigfoot, but the person who murdered him.

I have seen one, like 100's if not 1,000's over the years......we/I know it's out there, and in certain government circles, they know it's there too.

They did a great job with their setup. I understand how things can happen in the heat of the moment, especially a monumental discovery such as the proof of a BF species, which the body would have been.

I can't help but laugh at the full jar of iced tea left sitting along the path where the shooting occurred. I drink tea constantly, and I believe that I would have dropped my tea also hearing a barrage of bullets nearby.. The miracle is that no tea was spilled!

Edited November 1, 2011 by masterbarber

[Guest parnassus]

I think we are in danger of going OT on the wilderness issue, so after a response to my last post let's terminate that.

Bipto

Did the nephew and girl sign an NDA?

Thanks

p

Edited November 1, 2011 by parnassus

[Guest]

Arizona, or anyone, How do I find these recordings from Operation Endurance?Thanks so much !

Edited November 1, 2011 by SweetSusiq

[Guest FuriousGeorge]

Kudos to Bipto for an engaging, fascinating thread. Your patience is much appreciated.

Indeed

I can't say it enough how I appreciate Bipto keeping a cool head and answering everything thrown his way.

Parnassus was correct when he basically said that the nature of this topic is in uncharted waters and there have been attempts to get it off topic and/or shut down. The staff is trying hard to keep it rolling with as little interference as possible. As a Mod suggested, please keep it on topic by discussing the events alone. There have been a couple of bumps so far, but basically it is moving along. Please, let's keep it going. Thank you.

[Guest]

...any BIPCasts in our future covering this topic? Will there be an official press-release issued on this? Sorry if I've already missed those talking points.

No, probably no Bipcast in the immediate future. Also, no press release until we have something worthy to announce in that way.

I also suppose I don't like the idea of killing to conserve. Seems counter-intuitive.

You can't conserve that which does not exist. Until you prove that they're there, nothing special will be done to make sure they're protected. Counter-intuitive perhaps, but sixty years of concerted effort to establish them in other ways has proven fruitless.

Did the nephew and girl sign an NDA?

No, not at all.

[Guest]

I will do my best to remain on topic as well, and yes thank you Bipto for relating the details to us.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Tautriadelta

[Hairy Man]

B

Thanks.

Would you agree that pretty much all of the US was logged over by the end of the 19th century, that most of the areas you now cite as forest or wilderness were essentially barren of sizeable trees, and there were no hunting laws, there were powerful firearms and trophy hunters as well as commercial hunters and subsistance hunters, and there were good cameras and photographers and that animals of all sorts and sizes were killed willy nilly?and only in recent years that conservation efforts have resulted in a rebound to what we see today? And yet we have no Bigfoot body parts or trophies or photographs from that period when it was open season on everything and animals had their cover sawed down and hauled away?

Well I'm not B and I don't want to get this off topic too much, but.... no I wouldn't agree at all that "pretty much all of the US was logged over by the end of the 19th century." The beginning concepts of land management agencies (US Forest Service, for example) began in 1876 with Forest Preserves created soon after. The Preserves were based on the forested areas - if all those forests was gone, what were the Preserves protecting? We still have vast chunks of land outside of wilderness that have never been logged (roadless areas, wild and scenic areas, etc.). Did you forget about old growth forests? Giant Sequoia groves? I also don't agree that wildernesses weren't logged because they didn't have sizeable trees - they have very sizeable trees but getting them out was always an issue.

As for no hunting laws, according to the history of the California Fish and Game "The first California fish and game act was passed in 1852 by the California State Legislature and signed into law by Governor John Bigler. The Game Act placed closed seasons on 12 counties for quails, partridges, mallards and wood duck, elk, deer, and antelope. Two years later in 1854, the Legislature extended the act to include all counties of California. In 1860, protection controls were extended for trout. In 1870, the Legislature, with the support of Governor Henry Huntly Haight, created the Board of Fish Commissioners. In 1871 the state appointed the first Game Wardens to handle wildlife law enforcement, making the Enforcement Division of the Department of Fish and Game the very first State Law Enforcement Agency enacted in California for over 124 years of service."

So there were laws in place in the 19th century.

[Guest]

Arizona, or anyone, How do I find these recordings from Operation Endurance?Thanks so much !

You hear them by listening to The Bigfoot Show episode 26 here:

http://www.bigfootproject.com/bfs/bfs_026_rss.mp3

We're going to publish an overview of Operation Endurance at a later date and the sounds will be included there, as well.

Thanks, HairyMan, for stepping in. You can speak to all that much better than I.

[Hairy Man]

No problem bipto! We'll be listening to the Show tonight.

One question - is the TBRC still welcome to continue researching on the land? If yes, does that include the carrying and use of guns?

[southernyahoo]

Bipto, the echo team was the fifth of ten teams to visit the site of operation endurance, What effect did the shooting have on the activity being reported? Did the remaining teams report similar activity as prior to Daryl taking his shots?