The Echo Incident

[Yuchi1]

So they're human because they walk like humans...except when they don't. Maybe *that's* when they're apes. 

 

Or, what we observed at that instance was actually a chimp, on the lam, from up the road.

[Guest]

That *has* to be it. 

[norseman]

Huh......runaway chimps in the same location as Sasquatch?

You guys have all the luck!

Edited May 19, 2014 by norseman

[southernyahoo]

Go figure indeed. The homo line gave up quadrupedal locomotion millions of years ago.....

 

Not Completely......

 

 

 

Human behavior is malleable, and if one is raised around canines, wild or domestic the behavior can be like this.

 

 

You'll note that when Oxana barks at the camera how well she mimics a dog's bark. I doubt anyone could tell the difference blind folded. Just an example how the human brain adopts behaviors that make other animals successful or gains them acceptance within a social group. You see this all the time in our youth. 

[Guest]

A couple of weirdos does not a mode of perambulation make. 

[norseman]

SY:

I linked a video here like that awhile back. And while interesting it does not change the fact that we are bipeds and have been so for a very long time.

How our pelvis and spine is aligned is in stark contrast to an ape because of our bipedalism.

We can choose to crawl around on all fours, or in some cases we must because of brain conditions or other ailments in special cases. But it is not a normal human condition.

But it is the norm with apes.

And since we are on the subject?

What other human or homo traits are lacking with Sasquatch?

1) Tool manufacture, the flaked hand axe is over a million years old.

2) Fire manipulation, is also very old and has been found with Homo Erectus.

Two quick ones that come to my head, that is not generally associated with Sasquatch....why? I think it's safe to say that is because they are not apart of the genus homo......

[southernyahoo]

 ^ at BIP,,,,Nor does a few accounts of quadrupedalism in BF. It would appear that both humans and bigfoot are capable of both modes of locomotion and may choose to change modes for different reasons, but that choice wouldn't  exclude BF from being genus homo. It's simply not exclusive to walk or run on all fours.

Edited May 19, 2014 by southernyahoo

[norseman]

There are way more ape like traits associated with squatch than homo traits........even spotting them a million years, they would still be deemed primitive.

[Guest]

Nor does a few accounts of quadrupedalism in BF.

 

It's more than a few. We have first-hand knowledge of them using a bent-over running motion as well as bipedalism and quadrupedalism. They seem to employ different modes for different purposes and/or based on their stage of development/age. 

 

There are way more ape like traits associated with squatch than homo traits........even spotting them a million years, they would still be deemed primitive.

 

Absolutely. Many ape-like behaviors and essentially no homo traits (other than superficial similarities in how they sometimes get around). 

[JDL]

This fascinates me that others draw a different conclusion.  In every encounter I've had, they've behaved like humans more than apes.

[norseman]

JDL,

In what way?

[JDL]

The way they stand when they're facing you at close distance.  The way they meet your eyes, evaluating you just as much as you are evaluating them.  The way they coordinate as they are stalking.  The way they actively employ deception as you are watching them seek and take cover. 

 

They're either apes that think and act like aboriginal people, or they are aboriginal people who happen to have massive builds and body hair like apes.

[norseman]

And there in lies the trap. We will never know what they are or how closely related they are to us without proving them to science first.

I think a lot of what your describing JDL you would feel the same way if you met Koko and she signed to you, or you watched her mother a kitten or use a spoon to feed herself. I completely understand....... But Koko is not a human.

But I will say this, they are wily creatures, not sure that is a true measuring stick of intelligence, but elusive? Absolutely.

[southernyahoo]

We've been over this many times Norse, but honestly there isn't that much room between humans and chimps to draw the line, and who decides where to draw it?, but Sasquatch definitely cuts the gap even slimmer with just it's bipedalism, but throw in the speech , and the elusiveness over the past four centuries or so and you are either dealing with a type of human that would explain that elusiveness or it gets a lot of help from us in the way of a cover up. Something that really isn't or wouldn't be considered human by all who examined it would have been proven by now. Personally I think BF is the very thing that would divide people and scientists alike on what it is to actually be human.

 

So my prediction is that BF either won't be proven because you can't possess a specimen because it's technically human and science won't accept anything else so long as it's not, or, we'll learn to accept something like DNA as proof along with good footage. 

[norseman]

I do not define the ability to be elusive with intelligence. This logic is flawed, otherwise we would not be able to find lost tribes in the amazon or New Guinea. But we do find them......and they are 100 percent human.

During the Indian wars the government found, fought, drove off or rounded up very elusive Indian tribes, such as the Apache and Nez Perce.

What saves Sasquatch from persecution is his ability to be elusive but also his utter unsophistication that in northern climates would kill humans... And Neanderthals as well.

No clothes, no fire, no stone tools. How far back do we need to go to find something resembling this creature in the hominid tree? Well before the Homo line for sure...... Some sort of giant cousin of Lucy adapted for the cold? Sure....... That also puts them at chimp level of intelligence despite bipedalism.

As we now know....... Bigger brains came after bipedalism and not before.

Something that does not need a fire for warmth or cooking and instead sleeps afield and eats it's meat and twigs raw? Is not human........ Try it yourself, and see how far you get. Humans need our tools for survival, and so did many other extinct human cousins for millions of years.

It's not human, but it is an ape and in the broader sense we are apes, and in my opinion this is where the recognition comes from married with the fact that it walks upright. But what have the done with their hands? What have they shaped and created? Where are their accomplishments? Homo Erectus gave us the hand axe!

Yes, we have been over and over this, and will continue this debate until one is proven to science.