Guest Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 did you perchance sit down with everyone after the fact and discus what went wrong with this scenario so it wouldn't happen again? We've had a lot of conversation about pretty much every aspect of the encounter.
Guest Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Shotguns are a terrible weapon when used with in its limits, the mixed load is devastating... The shotgun is a close quarters weapon when loaded this way, home defense, camp defense, and personal defense is the role it is intended for...[/size][/font] Agreed.
Guest Jodie Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 I'll take your word on that TR and Surveyor, you all would know much more about that than I would. However, we still have someone shooting in an area that isn't secured from outsiders coming in, or so it seems from what I read. Does no one have a problem with this? I'm sure that was what was worked out with the family but was the issue of the guns not discussed with the property owners before hand?
Guest StankApe Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) I maybe wrong but if I read the incident right the shooter took the shot at 75 yards with what i am assuming a mixed load of 3" high base 12 gauge 00 Buck and slugs in combination... The probable reason for missing the target is the distance involved... The buckshot load at 00 or #1 is a big heavy load of larger pellets which be bigger the gauge the less the number of pellets there are at like 7 or 8... As the round is fired the spread on the buckshot increases as the second aspect of gravity takes place... So at 75 yards the pattern is so great as to minimize the effect of maybe just 1 pellet hitting what is shot at... Add with gravity pulling the pellets down you have almost a guaranteed miss if not adjusted for elevation and for windage if the target is moving... A slug is the same as the Buckshot but much heavier and if used in a smooth bore all the above come into factor even more with the lack of rifling... So with the distance and movement of the subject and the round used in this incident the odds of hitting the subject by a common shooter is very unlikely... And in getting a kill shot is astronomical with the variables that were present... Shotguns are a terrible weapon when used with in its limits, the mixed load is devastating... The shotgun is a close quarters weapon when loaded this way, home defense, camp defense, and personal defense is the role it is intended for... I agree 75 yards is asking a whole lot of most shotguns owned by civilians (well affordable anyway) I have fired tactical shotguns when i was in the army(for fun) that were owned by a Sgt Major and those things were pretty solid at 50 yards in a rapid fire (holy crap!) type of scenario.(well, we fired them rapidly, but our hearts weren't in our throats either so there's that) Much longer than that and it starts to get sketchy. I'm sure some of those fancy Italian shotguns with the proper load could be accurate up to 100 yards in a "combat/reactive" firing scenario. That's a heck of a lot different than sitting in a supported position at a range with all the time in the world to breathe and fire. P.S. not to say one can't hit a deer at 100 yards or more with a shotgun with the proper technique , but having a Rambo moment with a shotgun firing multiple shots as described.... it's not very likely to be too accurate. Edited October 28, 2011 by StankApe
Guest Jodie Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Well as incredulous as I might seem to be about the whole thing, kudo's for you for commenting on it Bipto. Live and learn, glad it ended with no serious consequences.
Guest TooRisky Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 I'll take your word on that TR and Surveyor, you all would know much more about that than I would. However, we still have someone shooting in an area that isn't secured from outsiders coming in, or so it seems from what I read. Does no one have a problem with this? I'm sure that was what was worked out with the family but was the issue of the guns not discussed with the property owners before hand? Highlight just described every National Forest in America where shooting is allowed at the shooters discretion...
Guest Jodie Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Well you do have a point TR, but this was private property. However, it seems like it isn't likely to ever happen to this group again based on what Bipto said.
Guest BFSleuth Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 From my reading of the account it sounds like he had a 4 shot magazine (based on the model of the gun), first shot was loaded as 000 buckshot, with 3 slug rounds behind it. "The slugs Colyer fired were all found embedded in trees near where he saw the animal." This does not specify whether they found any of the buckshot, so it may be the BF was hit with the buckshot round and was GONE before 3 rounds of slugs could be fired. Remember, he was firing into about a 10' diameter "window" between thick trees and undergrowth. He was also firing into its back left shoulder as he never saw its face. Buckshot hitting a thick hided animal with massive musculature in its upper back may be like us getting hit by a pellet gun in the shoulder. It hurts a lot, but isn't near a mortal wound and you could travel a ways without much bleeding. This was a shot at about 30 yards, so the shot would have started to scatter. There are eight 0.36" diameter pellets in a typical 000 buckshot load. Without a choke at 40 yards the total "spread" is about 150 cm (about 59 inches). At 30 yards this would be about 44 inches. The spread isn't even, either, more random. The BF may have only been hit with a few spread out buckshot and reacted very fast and was long gone from the 10' diameter window in the trees before the 2nd shot with the slug was fired. On a side note if I were Colyer I'd think twice about going back in those woods. Their memory may be long.
Guest MJ151 Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Here is a little trick for finding blood. Aside from using flashlights that highlight blood, you can take a spray bottle and fill it with hydrogen peroxide. If there is a question about a spec being blood, a quick mist of the h2o2 will let you know pretty quick. It will bubble when it comes into contact with blood. It can help you pick up a trail you have lost or to find a trail in the first place. Works pretty well, give it a try next time you cut your self.
Guest Jodie Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 That's a handy little trick to know!! Thanks
Guest Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) I can tell you there was much thought put into the weapon and ammunition choice. The other commenters have it right. A few years ago a young gorilla escaped his enclosure at the Dallas zoo. The police were called in and the gorilla was killed with a police shotgun. I've heard of similar scenarios involving bears, even polar bear. I was thinking of accuracy and power at a distance. On second thought however, I realize that it's true "much thought [was] put into the weapon and ammunition choice" and it was a good decision. A high powered rifle might result in a fatality when the Bigfoot hunter thinks he sees a Bigfoot a hundred yards off, silhouetted over on the other hillside under a shade tree, and as he excitedly thinks of the great, paradigm changing discovery he is about to pull off, shoots a hunter in a ghillie suit. Yes, I can now understand the need to have a weapon that will protect yourself and also make it necessary you correctly identify your target. But I agree with Parn. This is still dangerous. And I guess the Texas group doesn't believe it's possible Bigfoot is a feral human or a human of any kind. Edited October 29, 2011 by jerrywayne
Guest parnassus Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 I agree 75 yards is asking a whole lot of most shotguns owned by civilians (well affordable anyway) I have fired tactical shotguns when i was in the army(for fun) that were owned by a Sgt Major and those things were pretty solid at 50 yards in a rapid fire (holy crap!) type of scenario.(well, we fired them rapidly, but our hearts weren't in our throats either so there's that) Much longer than that and it starts to get sketchy. I'm sure some of those fancy Italian shotguns with the proper load could be accurate up to 100 yards in a "combat/reactive" firing scenario. That's a heck of a lot different than sitting in a supported position at a range with all the time in the world to breathe and fire. P.S. not to say one can't hit a deer at 100 yards or more with a shotgun with the proper technique , but having a Rambo moment with a shotgun firing multiple shots as described.... it's not very likely to be too accurate. A couple of other details: There was another team member who was off somewhere out of sight to the side, correct? the reported distance from Colyer to biped was only 25 to 30 yards, correct? And the tea was 50 yards down the trail from Colyer or from the target?
Guest Jodie Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 Yep Parn, that's what the story says. The creature was 25-30 yards away, the person behind him was 60 feet away, there was someone following the creek bed where the creature ran. Not sure where the tea was at at this point. So what are you thinking about the tea?
Guest Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) I'll take your word on that TR and Surveyor, you all would know much more about that than I would. However, we still have someone shooting in an area that isn't secured from outsiders coming in, or so it seems from what I read. Does no one have a problem with this? I'm sure that was what was worked out with the family but was the issue of the guns not discussed with the property owners before hand? during hunting season people are out hunting on pubic lands and there is no security. the hunter takes his shot making sure there is no other hunter in the line of sight. some one could be in the area and not be in harms way. also buckshot and slugs are used in many areas because they do not travel as far as rifles do. as far as a plan, it's a living animal,you can not dictate on it is going to do, so plans for hunting are more like an idea what you would like to happen. Some people in here are monday morning play calling with this. You have moments to decide on what to do in a situation like that, and anybody that knows about hunting knows it's easy to make a wrong call, and if they say they never did, well you better break out a shovel because the bs is going to get pretty deep. i Edited October 29, 2011 by zigoapex
Guest Jodie Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 Well you maybe right Zig, I'm just used to thinking out all of the ramifications of things, like a chess game. Maybe it wasn't a concern at the time before this happened because of what you and the other hunters say is the norm in a situation ( as if hunting sasquatch could ever be considered normal). I'll have to take everyone's word on that. However, I appreciate that Bipto is being forthright and speaking up. I think we can all learn something from what might have been a really bad situation.
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