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I submitted a paper to RHI last November, but it's still in peer review. In the meantime, here is a YouTube video of my presentation at the Kiamichi Mountains Bigfoot Conference in May: The first few slides, omitted here, were about DNA and the microphone was not on and so were not recorded. Nothing new in them that you probably don't already know.

Agree. Agree BUT .. Agree BUT !!!! ... I think the quality and detail of information on the non-forum platforms is somewhat lacking. Or maybe you could say the signal to noise ratio is lower. So while forums may be perceived as old fogey stuff they're still where to go for better quality. The others are fine if you're primarily there for entertainment but if you are trying to do research .. nah.

I just looked back at all of the posts I made this year. There are nearly zero posts in any actual bigfoot discussion. I do read most of the threads, but rarely react. It may seem as though I've lost interest, but I haven't. I just don't participate in the discussions. About 90% of my posts are about BFRO or John Green incidents. 9% are stupid memes in the tar pit, and maybe 1 % are a reply to any actual discussion. My thing here is the SSR. I have a bunch of BFRO reports to classify, but I have very little time in Spring and Summer, so they remain unclassified. It's a Winter project for me... I did just share some new audio though. I recorded some interesting sounds in Oklahoma. As far as Noobs go... I find that it's best to wait it out when a new member comes along that really tries to engage in discussion. Too often they showed up just to be a disruptor.

One of the things about many noobs that frustrates me is they don't do their research before posting, they throw stuff up that has been rehashed countless times as if it has to be new and startling to others merely because it is new and startling to them. There's a significant component of narcissism and entitlement there. I'm old, tired, and short-fused when it comes to that level of disrespect .. and it may be that a lot of long established members are in the same boat choosing to disengage rather than react to it.

I tried guys, even had researcher of the year contests with $3000 prizes, advertised on google, reprinted research papers with permission, etc and it kinda of worked. But new members wouldn't stick around, they showed up for the buzz and then leave. I agree that the problem is a lack of new discoveries. Even hoaxes would get the forum busy, remember Biscardi?

I have been watching forums die a slow death for years. I.e. The old jet boating forum Mean chicken is gone. Along with it all of its extensive knowledge. The younger crowd doesn’t do forums for some reason. They stick with social media. And then cry about censorship, etc. I just don’t get it. I find forums like these much easier to navigate and interact with.

Several years ago, when I was active on the JREF/International Skeptics Forum, I ended up betting that Sasquatch would be scientifically proven by X date, which was a couple of years in the future. In the negotiations, I was able to talk them into giving me odds of 50,000 to 1, so I put up $50. That X date came and went and I paid $50 to a charity of his choice. It was fun and added something to the back and forth banter that I dealt with on that site. I wasn't ever going to collect $2.5 million if science finally proved they exist, but I was willing to put my money up for the cause.

This is a drawing of my first encounter. Late 70's, so no cell phones. I have explained it before, but thought a drawing of it would help. I will post the drawing and then post an explanation a little later.

I was a pretty prolific member for a while. I still check in semi-regularly, but don’t feel the desire to post much anymore. For me, it’s the overwhelming negativity on a topic that is supposed to be enjoyable. The overall Bigfoot community is growing larger every day, but it’s also becoming more fragmented every day as well. Even this thread, which is about why is the forum dying, is filled with complaints about pretty much everything under the Sasquatch sun. TV shows, YouTube, rehashed topics, etc. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes, but there is a constant complaining that permeates the Bigfoot community that often turns into outright hostility when what are relatively minor differences arise. People who believe or have an interest in Bigfoot should have a great deal in common, but instead those minor differences of opinion cause a lot of discord. Don’t like Mountain Monsters or Expedition Bigfoot? Don’t watch it. However, shows like that plant a seed of interest in a new generation, insuring that there is a fresh crop of enthusiasts who will hopefully carry on the search. TV executives don’t really make shows geared towards real life Bigfoot researchers. Maybe just be glad that the subject has enough mainstream acceptance to make its way onto television in any form? Tired of a topic that (for you) has been beaten to death? Scroll past it. Are you a flesh and blood proponent irritated by the Woo? Are you a Woo supporter who hates the Apers? Well, at the end of the day you both have more on common with one another than you would have with a skeptic. Not to mention that we are dealing with almost zero proven facts about the phenomenon, so you both have a good chance at being somewhat correct. A lot of the members here want a more active forum, with more active participants. You can’t have that with multiple filters put into place. Anyway, I would like to see the forum become more active again. But, to do that you need new members who stick around. They need to enjoy the place to do that. Maybe start there?

For me? The problem with new members is that many of them are trolls. You never know if they are asking a question in good faith, or are setting up a gotcha moment. So I would say I have become somewhat jaded with new members unfortunately. Back to the forum in general. I do not possess the tech saavy to run this forum. But as long as Gigantor sticks around for the tech stuff? I pledge to keep the lights on one way or another. Just like the jet boating forum Mean Chicken, this forum is a repository of knowledge that I do not want to see extinguished.

I was also encouraged by this episode of Expedition Bigfoot. These samples may be the first of their kind for Bigfoot. I will be glued to the screen when Season 7 begins. Christina Burns is the DNA Profiling Facility Manager at the International Forensic Research Institute of Florida International University. She should be well qualified to do the DNA sequencing. Her human-like preliminary results are what I found in aquatic eDNA, which, however, is less definitive than a blood sample and more extensive sequencing. https://case.fiu.edu/about/directory/profiles/burns-christina.html

Speaking as myself, not a mod, not representing forum management, I don't care about the number of posts, I care about the quality / quantity of new information. I get sick and tired of rehashing the same old stuff. What is needed is not more talk, more posts, what is needed is something new to talk about, something worthy of renewed engagement, renewed attention. MIB

Interest in many things comes in waves, ebbs and flows. Is it possible your time of joining the forum coincided with one of the peaks? I know this to be true of my own. Thinking of a parallel .. no athlete runs 4 minute miles 7 days a week. It is true of our interest here. I think the period we are in now with less interest, less bright shiny things to draw our attention, is more representative of bigfootery over the long haul. There is also a change of medium when it comes to information exchange. There are TONS of small bigfoot groups on facebook. Lot of people trying to monetize their interest which I think distracts from the larger communities like this one. There is not much to do but get out there and do your own thing in the woods.

True. But the Smela case followed Backdoc's suggested scenario almost to a T, only failing because Smeja and his partner failed to take and distribute pics immediately. Which is the precise reason cited by Smeja as to why they left the scene immediately. This should be no surprise, especially in the current litigious society, and especially with a creature that might very well be a feral human or human subspecies.

Real or Fake? Is it a biological life-form? Or a rubber dummy stuffed with pig guts? I can say with complete conviction that it doesn't matter. Why? No physical evidence. And that video has made the rounds on social media. It did not matter.

It is now proven that government didn't need to silence Patterson and Gimlin. All they needed to do was place tighter controls on access to the Bluff Creek area. BTW, the area is closed all winter long, when tracks in the snow can tell their tale. Every year. You really don't have to "cover it up". All you have to do is officially ignore it and occasionally make a silly joke to make believers look stupid. Your scenario is fine, and if it went that way, it would essentially out the squelches. But, like I wrote, that's essentially what happened with Smeja, but without the videos and body parts, but of course, that's because he figured he'd be arrested...................and he was right................... I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

and I was told this forum was dying. great thread. thanks all.

If anyone goes they should come see me in Newport! I am still healing up from surgery.

Probably the appraised auction value like with antiques because of all the fossils we have here we call members, speaking for myself in the antiquarian sense too

Ive watched your videos with you and your wife doing research together. Quite frankly with a Discovery camera crew? You guys are every bit as good as any other TV show out there. And maybe thats the secret to the BFF? It needs a media front to funnel people back to the forum. And same goes for the WV crew and Lane County crew. Also a shout out to everyone that posts in the Field Trip section. Looking at pictures and video of beautiful mountains and forests and possibly evidence is always a highlight for me personally.

I haven’t posted in ages and rarely comment, but I am watching. Willing to bet there’s a lot of others on here doing the same. Casual lurkers make up sizable chunks of any forum

Thank you for sharing. No matter what that impolite poster said.

I feel like this person(s) has 10 more sock puppet accounts loaded in his gun.

Well, I did do an online business lookup of the Bigfoot Forums which revealed that this site is worth over $1,000,000!!! Amazing how fast those $20 contributions to the cause add up. Also amazing? How wrong online business lookup sites can be.

Any audio, video or photos posted here are stolen by internet keyboard warriors. Posting is a choice. Keep in mind that this forum is an internet message board, not a research site. I think that newbies visit expecting instant answers. There are a lot of smart people on the BFF and there is no expectation to post daily, weekly, monthly or longer. Just keep checking back. There will always be haters. Trolls self destruct on the BFF, some sooner, some later.

Do you think contributing to this forum is making posts about hoaxes, circle jerks and insulting researchers? And this question also goes to our members that liked his post? Or where do we draw the line with “Troll derangement syndrome” as Foxhill put it? Why do you do it? Why can’t you be amicable?

@norseman Cool. I'm down in that country (north of the border) for the first time in my life this week - the last part of BC I haven't spent time in. A few days of work in Cranbrook and Fernie, about 100 miles north of Kalispell. Man, it is beautiful down here.

For the record, Reddit is a dump, designed to elicit one word replies and ruled by leftist statist trolls who would as soon set you on fire as entertain your opinion if you don't strictly follow the populist zeitgeist. R/Bigfoot is thus a cesspool of short attention span theater with constant repeating deluge of AI garbage, repeated photo posts and people who can't be bothered to Google something. It's fine that it exists, it keeps that kind of idiot off here.

I agree many online communities can be described this way. it's certainly true of open source software development communities. But if we look at bigfootforums.com as a 'brand' that people hold a certain impression toward, we can look at the site's direct competitors for members -- say, r/bigfoot -- and see if ChatGPT gives us the same or similar description of that online community (prompt and response pasted below). Of course, this is ChatGPT and its pulling mainly from reddit for its response; there's certainly bias here -- actually, it reads like an advertisement for r/bigfoot. I'm not saying one brand's impression is better than another. Brands (including online communities) should be positioned differently to stand out as unique and attract certain customers or members (e.g., Ford vs Toyota vs Tesla). Go to X if you want this kind of experience; go to Y if you want that kind of experience. I guess my point is that bigfootforums can fix stuff internally (server crashes, search capabilities) but the external image might also need to be considered. This would depend on what image BFF wants to have among its competitors... and what kinds of members it wants to attract and retain. "Come to BFF if you want some good ole American in-your-face confrontation and arrogance. Go to r/bigfoot if you want European civility and kindness... and then kindly **** off." That's just as an example of course. Back in my marketing research days there was a story about Coca-Cola many people would paraphrase. It went something like, "The CEO of Coke once said that you can take away all of the company's facilities, equipment, people, and other assets. Just leave me the brand name and I'll be just fine." ------------------------ ChatGPT on r/bigfoot Prompt: Can you give me a description on current attitudes and perceptions people hold toward the r/bigfoot subreddit as an online community? Response: The r/bigfoot subreddit is a vibrant and inclusive online community dedicated to discussions about Bigfoot and related phenomena. Established in December 2009, the subreddit has grown to become one of the most active platforms for Bigfoot enthusiasts, researchers, and skeptics alike. Community Atmosphere and User Experiences Members of r/bigfoot appreciate the community's openness to a wide range of perspectives. The subreddit encourages civil discourse, allowing both believers and skeptics to share their views. A recent post highlights this inclusive environment, stating: "Believers and skeptics alike are welcome here, and friendly discussion is highly encouraged." reddit.com This approach fosters a respectful and engaging atmosphere where users can discuss various aspects of Bigfoot lore and research. Moderation and Governance The subreddit maintains a clear set of rules to ensure constructive discussions. The primary rule emphasizes civility:reddit.com "Please keep all discussion civil. First infraction you will get a warning. Another incident will result in a ban." reddit.com This policy helps maintain a welcoming environment for both new and long-standing members. Content and Discussions r/bigfoot hosts a diverse array of content, including personal encounter stories, analysis of audio and video evidence, discussions on folklore, and debates on the authenticity of various claims. For instance, users often engage in critical evaluations of purported Bigfoot sightings, discussing factors that may contribute to misidentification. One user questioned the tendency to label certain evidence as fake, prompting a thoughtful discussion on the criteria used to assess authenticity. lirias.kuleuven.be+1reddit.com+1reddit.com Additionally, the subreddit features lighter content, such as Bigfoot-themed art and humor, contributing to a well-rounded community experience. Overall Perception Overall, r/bigfoot is perceived as a supportive and engaging community that balances open-mindedness with critical analysis. Its inclusive nature and emphasis on respectful dialogue make it a valuable space for anyone interested in exploring the mysteries surrounding Bigfoot.

In a previous life I worked in market research, mainly conducting attitude surveys regarding brand names in various product/service categories. So when I think about changing interest levels in bigfootforums.com, I wonder about the site's brand image. In the absence of a full-blown marketing study, I just asked ChatGPT to tell me. (response pasted below, screenshot attached). Looks like there *might* be a few issues that deter new members from joining and/or sticking around. It's helpful to keep in mind that if a new (or even a long-time) member feels slighted here, they could go over to Reddit and bad-mouth bigfootforums.com. -- that one slighted member has turned off possibly hundreds of prospective members. ------------------------- ChatGPT prompt & response Prompt: Can you give me a description on current attitudes and perceptions people hold toward bigfootforums.com as an online community? Response: As of mid-2025, BigfootForums.com appears to be inactive or offline, with users reporting difficulties accessing the site since mid-2024. reddit.com Community Atmosphere and User Experiences Historically, the forum was known for its stringent registration process, requiring new members to post an introduction and limiting them to one post per day until reaching a certain threshold. This approach, while intended to deter trolls, was often described as convoluted and discouraging for newcomers. Long-time participants observed that the forum tended to be dominated by a small group of regulars who were often skeptical of outsiders. This led to perceptions of the community being grumpy, combative, and resistant to differing viewpoints. Moderation and Governance The forum's moderation was perceived as heavy-handed by some users. There were instances of users being banned without clear explanations, leading to frustration and, in one case, a user threatening legal action over their banning. thelaw.com Content and Discussions Despite these challenges, the forum hosted in-depth discussions on various Bigfoot-related topics, such as audio recordings and field studies. However, the overall tone of the community may not have been conducive to open and inclusive dialogue. Current Status Given the reported inaccessibility of the site since mid-2024, it is unclear whether BigfootForums.com will resume operations. For those seeking alternative platforms to discuss Bigfoot and related phenomena, communities like the r/bigfoot subreddit may offer a more inclusive environment.

Guilty as charged. For me it probably does come down to my feeling that I have expressed my opinions as frequently as I have wanted, and absorbed a huge body of opinions and facts to the point of satiation. For that I am grateful to the BFF and all who keep this thing up and running…Norseman, Gigantor, et al. Thank you! I wouldn’t say that I have moved on, exactly. It is more about freeing up bandwidth for more/other interests. Speaking of…OT shameless plug for my son’s band: The Mountain Grass Unit Jam Grass and BF just seems to pair nicely. They are right now rolling from Gainesville, FL to Sanford. Told them to keep their eyes peeled in the Ocala NF, don’t you know?

reddit is run by fascist dictator moderators who ban anyone they don't agree with politically. given that most conservatives are banned, and given that most hunters are conservative, they have priced themself right out of most of the encounters.

I don't have a smartphone; I think it would be harder to use this format on a phone. Does anyone even learn to type anymore? I agree, oldies like us used to like to have discussions at length, for days or more. I mostly blame social media, which has damaged attention spans and increased sources of information. Another reason could be progression of knowledge; people learn answers to personal questions and move on.

I love to see how my (admittedly very incomplete) data for just over 1200 reported encounters in the mid-Atlantic to northeastern United States and eastern Canada lines up with other data. I have more reports for this area than the than the BFRO because I've included historical encounters, encounters reported in books, and encounters from numerous other websites which are not (publicly) reflected in the BFRO website. I don't know if they privately incorporate these reports, but if they are a data-based research organization, it would make sense to use all the data available. 2. Other Notable States: * Pennsylvania 130 reports (BFRO) 368 reports (Trogluddite's data) * New York: 121 reports (BFRO) 262 reports * Maine: Not in Top 10 92 reports Temporal Trends 1. Seasonal Distribution: Summer accounts for approximately 34% of sightings, making it the peak season. I have 30% of sightings in the summer Fall follows with around 27% of sightings. And 30% of sightings in the fall Winter and spring have fewer reports, possibly due to reduced human outdoor activity. Winter has 17% and spring has 14% of all encounters. I would say that its likely that both Bigfoot and humans reduce their outdoor activity in the winter. That spring is the lowest % of sightings surprises me given that humans likely want to get outside again. However, Bigfoot may be even more secretive than usual IF that's when their offspring are born. The missing 9% of encounters are due to the fact that many so-called research groups and/or online reports lack basic facts. 2. Yearly Trends: TrogGPT is much less smarter than ChatGPT, so I'll just note some highlights * One can find 86 descriptions of what could be encounters with Bigfoot before 1900 in the limited geographical area I focus on * Not unexpectedly, there are less than 100 reports of "escaped gorillas" or wild men from 1900 to 1950 * The decade with the most reported encounters (not necessarily reported contemporaneously with the encounter) was the 2000s with 344 Lunar Cycle Correlation I find this data very difficult to trust. For example, some data sets use a default date, such as the first of the month, if no specific date is given. In other cases, witnesses have forgotten when exactly an encounter occurred; while some can describe the situation accurately, many can't. Additionally, weather conditions, terrain, and the local environment all help determine actual moonlight one can see, so a witness's statement that "there was very little moonlight" doesn't necessarily tell us what the lunar cycle information accurately. Out of just over 1200 reports, a concrete date was only reported in (or could be extracted from) 328 reports and of these only 183 occurred between dusk and dawn. (There is a reason I include lunar cycle data for daytime encounters if a concrete date is available.) * 41% of nighttime encounters occur when lunar illumination is less than 25% (i.e., first and last six days of a lunar cycle) * 23% of nighttime encounters occur during the peak of lunar illumination (i.e., before and after the full moon) I won't keep going. What I find interesting is that different datasets relying on different encounter reports still produce relatively consistent results. NorCal, I salute you for finding an innovative way to crack data - it would be interesting if this could be applied to the SSR. I also curse you (jokingly) for reminding us that computers are on their way to making us all a Captain Dunsel.

This caught my attention, since my topic post w/ graph showed an observable downward trend. Looking back on my data, code, and graph, I discovered I had mistook the date field as the submission date, when in fact what the Kaggle author called 'timestamp' is actually the reported sighting date. I should have caught this. The submission date is not available in the dataset I had used. The trends that AI pulled from Reddit are based on what the Redditor called an updated dataset relative to the one I used. This updated version has a submission date and a messy sighting year field (e.g., 2022, 2014-ish, 2001-2002, 1987 and 1994, 2011, etc.). The updated version also cuts off at 2021. There are other differences between the datasets, but here's what I found in terms of AI's response: Yes, there was a spike in 2012, though these were largely Class B sightings. My guess is that this comes from heightened awareness from Finding Bigfoot, which premiered in 2011. The downward trend resumed its course after the spike in 2012. Yes, there was an upward trend but it reversed around 2005. Here's my updated graph with correct labeling (LEFT) and a graph I created from the 'updated' data linked by the Redditor (RIGHT). Note that i had fewer records to graph (on the left), as I removed any records missing a date/year value (due to the witness unable to recall the encounter date). The graph on the right, since it's using the actual submission date (rather than the encounter date), had far fewer missing values (roughly 1000 more records to graph). BFRO launched in mid-late 1990s, and this is reflected in the near-zero submissions prior to then (righthand graph).

Exactly. At this point I am ( again ) convinced that Bigfoot is not some species of undiscovered Ape. But some type of large human subspecies.

^^^ Made up stories can have elements of truth. But part truth is still not the truth. My hotel receipt or speeding camera picture in my rental car is convincing I was in Chicago on some date and time. It doesn't mean I saw Elvis alive while I was there if I made such a claim. People tell untruths sometimes innocently and sometimes for some other motivation. The problem comes for someone who NEED that person or needs to believe them. It's just like how Greg Long needs Heironimus so he overlooks the changing suit, stories, timelines and so on. They can't walk away when these witness' stories don't add up. They should, but they don't. In this case of the Bob Lezar thing, some NEED him. In the event the storyteller is exposed by massive holes in their story, those who need him will say, "Wow, the government was SO powerful they convinced him to lie for them!" For them, that government can even somehow remove him for yearbooks. I wish this didn't have to spin into a UFO forum. Just so you know, Mike Farrell's UFO show in the 1980's tells me Aliens like ice cream; especially strawberry. Got to be true, right

To: "the Government knows" crowd This is for those who think the Government knows about Bigfoot and is keeping it quiet I have a Question: Scenario: A person is hunting a carrying a cell phone. They shoot Bigfoot and kill it. (Choose any reason you wish. Mistaken Identify, an act of self-defense or whatever). 1) They take pics of it and video with the cell phone. 2) They post the selfies on Facebook and various social media. 3) They call the cops and others 4) The cops show up. At this point (a) everyone on social media is sharing the pics and vids (b) those who show up are regular cops and game warden types who just minutes before were worrying about someone having an updated fishing license or littering. At no time do these 'cops' know they are somehow supposed to know they are supposed to help the government keep Bigfoot quiet. 5) While these local cops sort things out, the videos and pics on social media continue like wildfire. 6) These guys fill out a report and call DNR type people as well as a coroner. Who knows, maybe even the state university to see if there is some primates expect who can come down. My Question: What actions could the "Government" take to put the horse back in the barn in this example? I am suggesting any effort- even if such a government wanted to silence the story- is too late. There really isn't anything in my story problem that is unrealistic. In fact, I think I am even making any steps the government would need to do to silence the story to be much easier than it actually would be. Please tell me how the Government keeps things quiet in this scenario.

As a hunter, and a bow hunter as well? I would back off and give it some space for a few hours and then I would track it. The dart will be a bright color and it might be possible to place a AirTag or other tracking device to help locate it. In a forest environment the dart is either going to fall out. Or the creature may pull it out, or the brush and limbs may pull it out as it walks. I was a hounds-man 20 years ago. We used to track our dogs with Marshall collars and a Yaggi antenna. I bet that technology is better and smaller now. I have not kept abreast in that field and would have to research further. I think they use satellites now instead of radio telemetry. Anyhow I still say shoot the first one with a gun and be done with it. But being a member of these forums I understand that most researchers are just not willing to do that. So option B is we still need a chunk of the animal, real physical evidence. So how do we do that with minimal harm to the target species? Anyhow I am talking out loud right now. But I may buy a crossbow and start playing and testing with the idea. It doesn’t have to be the latest greatest crossbow. Just an old style recurve would be plenty powerful enough to get a one inch sample core from the creature. It reminds me of a bow hunting trip we were on in northern Washington. We never saw an Elk but we were killing Grouse for dinner with our judo points. We had this bull moose come through and we of course didn’t have a tag. It’s a once in a lifetime draw. So my buddy loads a judo point and we called it in and he smacked it right in the heart lung area. It ran off and we collected his arrow. Just an aluminum arrow with a big rubber tip. Didn’t hurt the Moose at all. But probably wouldn’t have impressed a game warden. But we basically called in and shot a bull moose. It was a sense of accomplishment. Any bow hunting is….very challenging. Anyhow it gave me the idea and so I started researching the idea and found they do use this in biology.

Hello- My name is Bobby, currently living outside of Dallas, TX. Born and raised here in TX and i have also travelled to a majority of the lower 48 states, whether it be for work or pleasure. my entire adult life i havent had much interest in cryptids or Sasquatch/bigfoot until a few months ago.. I had a sighting in 2009 when I was driving back to school in Huntsville, TX. It was a sunday night around 10pm, i was driving south down I-45 just passed Madisonville. Both sides of the Highway are covered in thick pine trees once you get to the edge of the Sam Houston National park. I was cruising around 65mph on the right lane when i seen a very large bi-pedal creature, walk across the 2 lane highway in 2 steps. I estimate he was around 7-8 feet tall and covered in black hair except his face. He was holding what looked like a racoon in his left hand as he was walking from west to east, I was travelling south. the entire sighting lasted about 5 seconds. I was 21 years old when this happened, I am 39 now. I havent shared this moment or incident with a single person, not even my wife.. this was something i just tucked away in my mind. I didnt sleep at all that night and just kept telling myself i was seeing a deer.

What is their position of the US Forrest Service...? The short answer is this: They support things that are proven like wolves and bears. Things that are unproven are just unproven. They can't be expected to have an official position on the subject or any subject that remains unproven. For instance, I doubt they have an official position on ESP or ghosts. I say 'unproven' because that is the general consensus of science. It seems- due to the discovery of Lucy and others- science has moved from 'Bigfoot can't exist' to 'Bigfoot might exist but so far is unproven'. If I went hunting and shot Bigfoot those government forces (US Forrest and so on) would go where the facts take them. 'They' would say Bigfoot exists as soon as they saw the body. They might be a local sheriff, some DNR guy, some US Forrest guy in a fire spotting tower, and 100 reporters who happen upon the story. Someone in government making an April fool's joke about bigfoot doesn't change any position. I really don't think NORAD is trying to support or harm Christmas based on the Santa Tracker on Christmas eve. There are some on the BFF and elsewhere who see the Government as some evil all powerful conspiracy about Bigfoot and about anything else they can image. If you ask those type of people, they will attribute things to the government that take you down quite a bunny trail. This even assumes something and big as the government made up of many layers and employees are all going to move in unison under one group think direction. Not likely. Don't believe me? See how fast they are to down vote me for posting this post. Even during the moon landing times, we had different factions who argued about the very mode we would take to even get to the moon. That is a simple unified goal fully funded and yet the various opinions and growing pains were evident. Those who say the government knows all about Bigfoot being out there and, here is the key, they are keeping it hidden are ones who NEED to have this be the case. They require a certain view of Government who probably that has even more deeper intentions even beyond Bigfoot. Sorry, I can't see it that way at least as it relates to Bigfoot. The answer is Government, or the US Forrest Service probably have people who work in it that believe in Bigfoot and some that don't. Beyond that, they are concerned about Budgets, hunting season, litterbugs and Yogi bear stealing picnic baskets.

Hello all! Would anyone like a ticket to the Metaline Falls Bigfoot Festival? I've decided that it's just too far for me to drive. Message me. K

Great backstory. Unfortunately, I'm a terrible aficionado of art, so when I first saw your drawing I thought you encountered a Bigfoot face down in a creek somewhere.....

Sorry Bipedalist, nothing on that area from me. The late Peter Byrne frequented those haunts, but he's gone with all his knowledge and intuition. He invited me to his house for a mid-week look-a-round in about 2008. I learned he was much more than a writer. Two of his associates still frequent the hills in that area, and to the north. I've worked the Alsea valley and to the south, but mostly the area between Mt. Hood and Mt. Jefferson, and the Gifford Pinchot between Mt. St. Helens and Mt. Adams. Once in the forest SSW of Estacada I had Ray Crow and two of his foreign guests along. We found a fresh slide very similar to the one described and drawn by Doug! It had a "butt print," skid marks, hand holds, and foot imprints when it stopped it's slide. Then it ran with long steps down a logging road shoulder, crossed the road and jumped into tall trees from an embankment. Ray and his guests took a lot of time to detail the event and he reported it in "The Track Record." My recollection of the event is logged on one of the computers the FBI "seized" { through no fault of my own, so I can't give the Forum drawings, etc.} Maybe someone can look it up in the "Track Record." We probably scared the Bigfoot while it was picking huckleberries and we approached on a hairpin curve. I still go up there and wander. Found an academic paper on chimpanzees using rock on trees to communicate. I want to look a little more of that up and I will share on the Forum. Regards, and as Peter used to end, Joe here

Thanks for the report Doug and I could visualize your climb along the elk trail and what an interesting find. Here in southwest Oregon the upper regions of Elk River near the town of Port Orford look the same as the attached picture of the area that you were in called upper Mill Creek Park.

Doug, thanks for the drawing and the backstory. I recall a pic somewhere of what was thought to be a butt print in mud and I think one or two hand prints next to it.

I just don't have anything to contribute. My opinion of Sasquatches has evolved from catch one to leave them alone, but that's just me. Others can chase them to their hearts content, because I'm pretty confident that the Sasquatches will make the monkey out of the chaser. I have a lot of interest in the SSR as a curiosity resource (like the BFRO), and I have great interest in the promise of DNA research. The recent posts about the Expedition Bigfoot blood DNA has piqued my interest, but I don't watch the shows themselves. I wait for somebody to get excited about something, then look into it. I was an early participant of BFF 1.0. The characteristics of forum posters hasn't changed much since the 1990's with the exception of real scientists lurking and even participating at low levels. This is huge, and I'm encouraged because of it. The rest is the same; lots of new participants are hecklers, some just have a passing interest, and few have the patience to learn anything new. That's just life. I don't expect much more. It's hard for me to believe that these creatures aren't in danger of impending extinction with the huge increase in human population in their critical range and the shrinking amount of good trace evidence popping up. More good evidence will increase forum participation. Less good evidence will cause less forum interest, even among folks who know that these creatures are out there.

One of you guys need to post a photo of one from your private collection . You want a buzz ? That's how you get members visiting and opening accounts . I have seen posts that they say I will never post my photos and that's fine but this forum will die like so many others have on the web.