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I found it much easier to accept the opinion that they're hominids. A different human species, like Neanderthal, Denisovans, feral humans, etc. Once I did, everything "opened up", including DNA evidence. I just can't accept extra terrestrial origin until some proof of interstellar or inter-dimensional travel is revealed.

Yeah, not Joe Rogan the theorist, but Joe Rogan the media platform that the corporate media refuses to provide? Can you imagine a corporate media model giving Bob Gymlan hours of time on their platform? Did they give Roger Patterson any coverage beyond a couple minutes of "reporting" accompanied with thev standard accusations of hoaxing, corruption, and grifting needed to condemn the film?

Neanderthal differs from human in this 220 base region by one mutation, chimp by 10 mutations. So chimp is definitely distantly related, but Neanderthal and my samples (with one mutation each) are closely related to the modern reference sequence.

Good snow trackway in Bluff creek!

It isn't. Just forced to answer a bully. I was attacked by someone. You can see what I said and what his response was. Imagine the civility if the poster could have just asked, "Why is that?". What does it say when he attributed all kinds of things to me personally. When someone is a bully, I don't take that lying down esp when someone attributes something to me I never said. Ask yourself Why would someone be so defensive about some internet guy where a poster would feel the need to insult a person (me) whom they know nothing about. They don't know me personally. I have never expressed a political view (and know it is forbidden on the BFF anyway) but this guy has some kind of crystal ball to know my views and feelings on a lot of things. All he needs is someone to say, "You lost me at Rogan" and then he knows all. Rogan is not important to me. Answering a bully is. Interesting the Bully decides to imagine where I am coming from, but I can post an actual video of what Rogan actually said, and excuses are made for what Rogan actually said. Me <--- Here is what I imagine you stand for Rogan <--- Please Joe can I pretend you didn't say that and make excuses for why you did I hope we can get to a point where someone can say their view and that is OK be it view, we agree with or not. Attacks and attributing things to a poster really shouldn't have a place on the BFF. I can't believe there is anyone on the BFF who would defend the behavior. I'll see you guys on the other threads.

I don't know the answers to any of those questions. I don't watch his shows. I only watch YouTube excerpts, and few of those, actually. I only know that years ago, he openly scoffed at the mere mention of Bigfoot. Now, he has Bigfoot "researchers" and believers on his show and treats them fairly well. I'll admit that might be purely a business decision, since sasquatchery is big business in the carnival world. Maybe he figured out that Bigfoot advocates attract money?

What Hunster said. To add to that I'll opine that five years ago Rogan wouldn't have even considered bob gymlan as a guest. Be great if Bill Munns was on the Joe Rogan podcast wouldn't it?

You are RIGHT ON! My recent eDNA findings indicate that BF is very close to human (one mutation away in 220 bases), and previous studies probably did not dig deep enough to realize that, instead just concluding "human." See my recent post with attached PDF slides on a presentation I made in October. Annotated PPT slides can be found on the FB Group "Coalition for Critical Thinking in Bigfoot Research."

Came across this interesting John Hawks post He was impressed!

https://www.livescience.com/archaeology/new-big-headed-archaic-humans-discovered-who-is-homo-juluensis https://www.sciencealert.com/large-head-people-mysterious-new-form-of-ancient-human-emerges https://www.jpost.com/science/science-around-the-world/article-831441

IMKER: No work, files, or images by M.K.Davis were used in this effort or the paper subsequently published. He and his efforts did not influence the project in any way, shape or form. And there is nothing about astrophotography that contributes any analytical value to the PGF study. Worship him if you like, but I have yet to see any real merit to his efforts and I've never used any of his efforts or material in any way to advance our knowledge of the PGF. The only time I reference his efforts is when I'm cleaning up a mess his flawed efforts caused.

Interpolated frames are always problematic for factual analysis because the computer doing the interpolation is working from an algorithmic protocol which generalizes how to calculate changes of position, but the specifics of the image may cause the computer to miscalculate (anatomically), especially on Patty, when some of her features are at the grain level of the film, and grain patterns can vary, so the computer is interpolating changes in grain pattern, not changes of true anatomy. I've taken two identical frames of Patty, but copied in two independent instances, and by overlapping them, and cycling back and forth from one scan to the other, I can create the appearance of facial movement, even in the same frame (which of course has no natural movement. The apparent false movement is the fluctuation of the grain pattern. Any proper analysis of Patty requires a consideration of how close the studied feature is to the grain pattern. Generally the smaller the feature, the greater the likelyhood of grain noise being the source, not true image detail. I've seen other researchers neglect this variable, and produce flawed analysis, so as a general rule, when I see something about her anatomy that is curious or questionable, I look for verification of the same feature in other frames. The more it shows in other frames, the more likely it is real, and not grain noise.

I have a weird skinned deer story. I am still baffled about it several years later. My dad, who lives in the country, called me up one early summer morning. He said he had a puzzle I need to help him put together. He can't get around much and needed my help. This was the sight when I got there. He said he went out to his boat in the boat shed early that morning. He always looks out into the back yard and down to the tree line for deer. He saw nothing. After a while working in his boat, he went back into the house and looked in the back yard again, no deer. He went into his house, sat down at the computer and began a game of solitaire. He looked out of the window and saw what appeared to be a dead deer laying the about 50 yards from the house. When I arrived, He said "see anything strange?". I said no. He said go down there and take a good look. On my way down to the deer a see the line if disturbed dew on the grass, which, is a trail my dad mad to the deer through dew. I notice another trail of disturbed dew covered grass from the south east leading to and away from the deer. They were not made by my dad. It did not look like anything being dragged. It was as if the deer was carried and it had fairly dry fur not like it would be had it been dragged through the dew. It looked fairly normal when I first laid eyes on it. It was a very fresh kill. As I got closer, something looked off. The whole right side of the deer was facing up and it appeared to be miss its hind quarters. When I rolled it over, I couldn't make sense of what I was seeing. Its neck was laying backward on its shoulder blades, its right shoulder, front leg and rib cage where intact as was the back strap loins. It's left leg down to its lower hocks, ribcage, loins and shoulder were missing, as was the entire left hind leg hoof, skin and all. The left front leg was twisted at the joint above the hocks and there were tendons extending out from them. The lower leg of the hock was intact in the skin, hoof and all. The skin for the right rear ham was present, with the lower leg and hoof attached with the joint twisted and tendons hanging out. The the hams themselves, as well as the lower left leg skin and the pelvic bone and part of the spine were gone. The skin looked as if it were pulled apart from the side of the deer. No knife cuts were found. I decided to do some detective work and follow the trail made in the disturbed dew grass. There was one leading to it and one leading away slightly to the side of the other. I backtracked it down to an old cat road that lead to the bottom of our property through the rainforest brush and big fir timber about 2 hundred yards to the bottom. It was hard compacted clay and moss, so no tracks could be seen, however, if something was dragged, it would have left a mark. On the way down, I found pieces of intestine about 6 inches long stuck on some brush about 4 feet high in three different places, which that in its self is weird, but it let me know I was on the correct trail. When I got to the bottom there was deer hair every where. Pieces of skin laying here and there. The missing pelvic and spine area as well as the hams, left front ribcage with the shoulder and loin attached and left rear leg were not present. The heart, liver, kidneys and lungs were missing. The intestines were pulled out of place in long lengths. The paunch was pulled apart and splotches of the contents strewn about. I have no explanation for what I saw. It certainly fits a possible sasquatch scenario, one that it killed the deer and left my dad a gift or something. I prefer to think that a simpler explanation is a correct one, though I don't have one. We left a camera on that dead deer to see if anything came back for it. After 3 days, the neighbors dog began chewing on it and the turkey vultures finished it up. Usually, raccoons, oppossums. bobcats and even bears will come into something like that, but not this time. This is the same property that we had many past encounters on. One encounter was my brother saying he saw what looked like a man in a bear suit floating through the brush.

Why is this so important to you? What Joe Rogan believes? Or disbelieves? How many unbelievers host talk shows or news reports about any cryptid subject? Most! The real question here? Is what do you think about Bob Gymlan and his theory? He could be talking to Joe Rogan or Phil Donahue.🤷‍♂️

I’ve always been impressed with Joe Rogan’s ability to reconsider a position he holds.

I'm not surprised that Rogan seems to be coming around on this subject. I've seen him being dismissive of it in the past. However I've also seen him talk about communicating with "mechanical elves" while tripping on DMT. If I recall correctly this was hypothesized as possible interdimensional communication. Also perhaps an opened gate in perception. Anyway, there was a great guest, mycologist Paul Stamets. He brings up a great concept at the end of this clip. "Reality is not limited to the perception we have traditionally used." The first time I heard this I thought "this is a major reason we can't figure out bigfoot." 11:20 below. Cheers.

For your consideration: Highlights: (WARNING: F words everywhere) 0:17 100% the PGF subject is Bob Hieronimus 0:19 They have a receipt for the suit the purchased for the PGF 1:18 Hard core Bigfoot believers are cult members 2:38 Bob Hieronimus side by side is a perfect match "Case Closed" <--- clearly showing his critical thinking skills. 3:10 If something looks back it's always fake. It all looks fake to Joe R. 3:16 "I don't know what that is" <--- Joe Rogan not having a clue it is Bob H in the Morris suit. He either doesn't know or pretends not to know. Most of us know it's Bob H. in the Morris suit on demo so bad it never was shown. 3:20 "There is a whole paper trail of an ape suit they bought" <--- Really? And so on and so on. Joe Rogan does make some general good points about Giganto but that's about it. (I cannot post other YouTube vids I have watched on Joe Rogan on the Subject of Bigfoot believers as the demeaning things he says are pretty foul.)

A) We sadly live in an era of Champion-ism That is, I hold up someone to be my Champion. The person will link themselves to that Champion. Regardless of the behavior or things said by that Champion, if you dare to Question their Champion or disagree then they feel, "you are attacking me"! The most unpardonable sin you can commit is objectively pointing out with facts, quotes, video, or their Champion's exact words something they did or said. That really makes the person blow their stack. In their mind, you attacked their champion! How dare you. Now I have to demean you. That is the way it is. B) Now I'll briefly address Mr. Rogan: Since this is a BFF the issue with Mr. Rogan isn't anything other than his position or things he has said about Bigfoot in general. On any issues he will say one thing one week (UFOs, Nutrition, Ghosts, Politics, or whatever) and the complete opposite the next week. Doesn't matter. He is a performing seal. It doesn't matter what tune he plays or even if it is in tune, it only matters that he keeps honking his horn. So, what about Rogan and bigfoot. Here are just some of the things he has said about it on various YouTube videos on his Joe Rogan experience (constantly packed and laced with an F words every 5 seconds): He goes on about how "Bob Heironimus was proven to be Bigfoot". "They have the suit; they have the receipt for the suit". A video of Bob Side by side with patty "proves he has the bigfoot walk" He looks at a pic of the Morris suit with Bob H wearing it and states, "I don't know what that is" He said horrible and demeaning things about those who try to go out and looking for bigfoot. What he said was so foul and inappropriate it cannot be posted here. Also, Gotta love how he said they were all "White Guys" See, the issue isn't someone's background in politics, sports, or whatever. The issue with Mr. Rogan is What his opinion is. He thinks he is smarter than he is. He is holding the microphone, so he thinks his shallow observations are correct. No one is there to offer any other "But Joe, what about Heironimus changing story. Joe, Morris never had any receipt of any suit. In fact, look at his catalog pics from the era, his available suit looks nothing like Patty" in the discussion. To Joe's credit, he does know a lot more about the Bigfoot topic than the average person on some of the issues of Bigfoot, the people, the PGF, and so on. But, when you don't know the holes in Bob Heironimus story or the Morris BS suit saga, it shows you are either willfully uniformed or just uniformed on deeper thinking and understanding. That might very well be a reason why someone might reject Joe Rogan ad the messenger about this topic. If Rogan didn't have a clue what the Bob H in the Morris suit was, what kind of depth can the man - who has an opinion of everything- even claim on the issue of BIGFOOT or the PGF. C) Meanwhile I will await a response by NorCalWitness on his nonsense post about me from before. It won't come naturally, and if it does it will be nothing but his/her Justification of what they said. In fact, probably instead of sticking to that post I actually made, there might even be an attempt to that THIS post and things I just said in some retroactive way in it to go back in time and justify what was said. Imagine. All I posted was, "You lost me at Joe Rogan" Look at that response. Speaks volumes. D) In summary, Rogan is an entertainer. The are some many examples of his being all over the place I won't even list them here. The issue is what he said about bigfoot. And to those who follow the topic and believe in Bigfoot has said some utterly foul things about you. Foul. To the Joe Rogan fan and Bigfoot Believer, look into it. Enjoy what he really thinks about you.

Your loss.

I got out for the day with MagniAesir on a deer hunting/sasquatch seeking adventure. It was a fine fall day, with sunshine most of the day, after the morning overcast and mist dissipated, but no critters of any kind were spotted. We did encounter snowy trails at the higher elevations in the valleys off the east side of Harrison Lake, where we saw some older deer and canid tracks, but nothing fresh at all.

"They've found a new Alpha" Sasquatch seen leading a troop of escaped monkeys as they carry out its dirty work!

No disagreement. One of the problems we face today is that in the past, the expectation was bigfoot was some sort of North American "gorilla", the DNA should reflect that, and anything not supporting that paradigm was contaminated and not worth the cost of completing testing. According to the lore of our interest some number of samples were started, then testing ceased, data discarded, and samples destroyed when the preliminary results didn't match expectations. I very much wish we still had those to retest with today's methods and technology by people more willing to spend the money to find the answer whether it fit their preconceived notions or not. Wishing does not make it so but maybe wishing will stop us from repeating the mistakes of the past. That said, people seemingly are pushing forward with testing of newer samples yet the puzzle remains unsolved. A potential implication is that maybe those older samples really were junk, really didn't include a solution. If so, maybe the puzzle is even harder than we think. Sometimes I wonder if the folks going down the woo rabbit holes, folks I often roll my eyes at, aren't closer to right than I am. Not a good feeling.

" it’s all just a educated guess." Primate cousin of humanity, giant form of known relic human ancestor. Heck I've even wondered about escaped pre civil war slaves. IDK. What I do know is right off the top of my head I can remember three stories of hunters shooting one and then standing over the body fearful of being accused of murder because of how human it looked like. And then burying it. Nobody ever stood over the body of a monkey and believed they might be accused of murder. Who knows maybe the stories are all BS. But what are the odds of nobody ever getting a shot off at one of them ? If not , then you veer off into some kind of bulletproof supernatural/interdimensional being ETA If one actually goes out to shoot one. One must be prepared for the possibility that they are human. And if so , most people won't believe you shot bigfoot. Better make sure you bring a shovel.

Mutations do not separate by "electrostatic charges", rather they appear in separate sequences and are detected and categorized by base position and original and final base, e.g. C1048T, which says that at reference position 1048 a C base was changed to a T base. BTW my 2024 Texas Bigfoot Conference slides (PowerPoint), with my comments, can be viewed/downloaded on the FB group "Coalition for Critical Thinking in Bigfoot Research." The file is too big to upload here. However, the PDF version, without comments, is uploaded HERE. Also, I submitted a paper with much more explanation to RHI: isu.edu\RHI, a free access online journal edited by Jeff Meldrum. TexasBigfoot Conference 2024-10-26.pdf

I totally agree that results, if not samples, should be saved in raw data form. I have recently presented my eDNA results at the Texas Bigfoot Conference, and the slides are available to view on the FB Group Critical Thinking in Bigfoot Research. I am about to submit these results in more detail in a paper in Relict Hominoid Inquiry, Jeff Meldrum's online journal at: www.isu.edu\RHI.

Sasquatches are 100% what they are and what I think they are has zero % effect on that, however, my personal view is flesh and blood with wooish capabilities that are consistent with an earthly creature, even if we haven't studied these capabilities in other earthly creatures. They may be unique to the species.

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to all, and may you be blessed in 2025! Here are some cool pics to end the year, looks like a Sotol snack break and all neatly discarded in one pile, plus some interesting prints that were nearby, 2 larger prints and probably the same individual, plus one track has a juviefoot print on the bigger one, the little guy was bringing up the rear in true Hairyman form.....I am wrapping up, with ribbon, a Bigfoot action figure for the lil hairy tot and leave it at the gift tree:) Cheers!

I am guessing April or May as the snow was melting. I too go out in late spring. The snow is heavy and holds weight. And something could be out of its winter den prowling around looking for spring vegetation or whatever.

Correct. I am gonna use this for getting into back country in winter.

Studebaker Champion Inline 6

Starting weasel project!

Here is an interesting clip:

The “bully” in question is in his mind defending the clip he posted IMO. I come to this conclusion, because I have found myself cross with him as well. It was a tree break video he posted awhile back. Some people get emotionally attached to content they share. And as a forum we walk a fine line between encouraging people to share content. But at the same time accepting that people will debate or even ridicule said content. I think in this case? It would be best to split this thread in half and make a Joe Rogan thread to talk about Joe Rogan and keep the original thread about Bob Gymlan.

When someone says something on video it proves that person did say actually what they said. This applies to the famous and non-famous alike. For some, the rules are different for Joe Rogan. They can explain why. I can't. I treat all these people equally. If someone made a statement, then they made a statement. We can like or dislike the person making the statement but what was said is what was said. When we are lucky enough to have it one video, we get the exact words and even the tone offered. It has the advantage of being proof. I showed a video of what Rogan said exactly. If someone is a Rogan fan or not, the video is for all to see. People can choose to watch it or not. If they do there will be no denying what he said. Unless he changed his position, that is his position. To be fair to him or any other person, you only attribute to a person they things the person actually said. If Rogan has changed his position, I am asking for anyone to show us. Show us because it's only fair to update a person's position to what they presently believe vs chaining them to any past belief IF it is no longer their belief. Until someone shows Rogan has changed his views, his past stated views stand. Why wouldn't they. If Rogan no longer believes what he said, then show us. <--- That is too demanding for some to handle.

As usual, no.

I think you sum it up well. Until I see hard evidence he has changed his views it's my guess he hasn't changed. He moderates his public tone because as you point out it's good business. It's typical of many public figures and others. I'll bet the Q's I asked (which views has he changed?) will go several pages on this BFF thread. However, no one will post any evidence any view has actually changed from the video I posted. They will just try to imply a softening public tone means he changed. He hasn't. This is a man who- if he changed his views on anything- wouldn't be shy about it.

I took the Jeep out last weekend to do a review and field test of the winch. I came across a tree that had fallen across the trail. At first, I thought it was just a typical deadfall tree. But it was odd in that the tree broke off at about 7-8' above the ground, and the tree fell perfectly perpendicular across the trail. I examined the base of the tree and could make out a couple of potential depressions of where if a Bigfoot was standing, it would leave such impressions while pushing over the tree. Obviously, nothing conclusive, but since becoming a Believer, I now notice things that I never did before and am more open to alternative explanations of events. Impressions were way more impressive in real life, lol. Video of the whole review and better overall look at the downed tree area at 10:25...

A lesson we all can benefit from. Especially, yours truly.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/arctic-fox-traveled-norway-canada-76-days-180972558/

You are right.

Cromag You illustrate a point they made on the Podcast Astonishing Legends: They said serious people like Jeff Meldrum and others have to be so very careful. They want to engage with people in the 'Bigfoot world'. The Meldrum types have to be cautious not just of people who are using some bad science but making crazy or fringe claims. They don't want to be lumped in with the crazy claims or the crazy person. I'd say Bigfoot stealing crosses sounds a bit crazy to me. We need serious people with strong credentials doing the Bigfoot work. Lacking that, the vacuum of good experts is filled by well-meaning people who are not the best to represent the Bigfoot view. Some are an outright embarrassment. ( See the Bigfoot Massacre Theory of the PGF- Yikes!) (I would encourage anyone to listen to the 7 episodes from Astonishing Legends the PGF on YouTube. They even have one entire episode as an interview Bill Munns)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sasquatchchronicles.com/squatch-guard-maximum-strength-defense-sprays/%3famp=1 Link at bottom leads to website purchase page, rather tragically.

Whether Sasquatches exist or not, the Zana story is extremely applicable. First, the people of the Zhina region believed that Zana was an almas. It doesn't matter if you or I agree that almasties exist or not, whether Zana was an almas, human, or zebra, or what the Russian government thought about the whole affair, if they even bothered to think about it. The whole affair centers on the belief of the locals who knew her. Secondly, in this incredibly rare case, science was successfully able to identify Zana's taxonomy some 135 years after her death in not one, but two peer reviewed DNA analyses. Zana was a Homo sapien. Period. Thirdly, and equally as remarkable, these DNA analyses either could not or did not delve into her physical traits that were reported, such has her hairiness and unusual height. Why? Fourthly, Zana proved that a feral homo sapien can be mistaken for a mythical wild person..........which is exactly what she was! A feral human. Fifthly, in today's United States (and probably in today's Abkhazia, too), if you kill a hairy, tall, bipedal creature in order to ascertain *what* he/she is "for sure", only to discover that he/she is a hairy, tall homo sapien (in the view of others, NOT you), I humbly submit that you're headed for a very ugly court hearing, at the very least, and a bit of free, sub-desirable lodging at the very worse........if not a rope. Lastly, even if you kill an unknown species, my own opinion is that the government will never let it see the light of media exposure. Yeah, that opinion will promote lots of opposing opinion, but I'd love to meet anybody, anytime, at any one of the threads on this forum discussing government coverup of the existence of Sasquatches, especially on Ft. Lewis, WA lands.There is no way, no how, no kidding, that Sasquatches have been regularly roaming around an active Army post for a century without the Army figuring it out. Period. No freaking way.

I hadn't ever heard a story of bear spraying a sasquatch before, either, and I'm none too sure of the wisdom in it, although one might conclude it saved this lady's life. And the idea that if it had seriously wanted her for whatever reason we wouldn't be hearing this account seems valid. So what would this event signify? Just messing with the she-dwarf? Or perhaps something more sinister, like its working its way up to taking lone hikers? Akin to serial killers starting out on smaller animals. Hunster, in regards to your venomous snake question, I've often thought that snakebites could account for at least some of the four and three toed prints that are found on occasion, in that if bit on a toe, a distinct possibility in light of ..well...their big feet, its not unlikely that it may lose that toe, or two, to the necrotic nature of the venom. Thanks for posting this, Norseman!

^^ I agree that vetting stories will not resolve the issue. Unfortunately, it will take a type specimen on a dissecting table before people say, "there is an unknown hominid/ape in North America, its real, and its spectacular!"

One would think that if we had all those different samples submitted down through the years, that we would surely be seeing groups forming from similar results/characteristics, and maybe some would indeed prove to be actually contaminated by the humans that collected them, but I'd bet baboons to bushbabies, that a good number of those discarded were in fact genuine unknown hominids, and of those there are bound to be clusters indicating either distinct species or populations that breed only amongst themselves, as well as forming a gradient in regards to how closely related to us they are.

One things that's important to understand is the USG Is not a unified monolith sharing intelligence and information openly among the various entities and agencies. It's the reason there is no unified finger print database. DOD will want a set and then the FBI will want their own set and then if you take a job with DOE they way want their own set. They'll each take a set but won't share. It's odd but it's how they operate. Is their likely some back corner somewhere where information about bigfoot has been cataloged and filed away? Sure, I'm willing to bet. But that doesn't mean that the USG in terms of the various members of the entities acting in all areas know or care about it even if it's pertinent information. Personally, I could see there being efforts to maintain control of information in regards to something like this only because the phenomenon isn't under control or easily explainable. In the book "the locals" there's mention of goings on like this which I find to be fascinating. I'm really just spewing a stream of consciousness but this question came up for me recently and these were my thoughts.

Took the grandkids on a 4x4 trip today!

We took most capable rig this year at IOX!