Jump to content

Leaderboard

  1. norseman

    norseman

    Steering Committee


    • Points

      610

    • Content Count

      12,911


  2. Huntster

    Huntster

    Sésquac


    • Points

      519

    • Content Count

      19,079


  3. Incorrigible1

    Incorrigible1

    Steering Committee


    • Points

      445

    • Content Count

      10,754


  4. PBeaton

    PBeaton

    Members


    • Points

      371

    • Content Count

      8,052



Popular Content

Showing content with the highest reputation since 05/27/2018 in all areas

  1. 9 points
    I missed this earlier. And I will give credit where credit is due. Dmaker is speaking the truth. As for the rest of it? I dont play Dungeons and Dragons. I dont hang out on Dungeons and Dragons forums and tell them how dumb they are wasting their lives playing it. And I dont belong to a anti Dungeons and Dragons forum where we talk about Dungeons and Dragons players and how dumb they are to waste their time playing the game..... Why? Because its an even dumber waste of time....... And I will say this. Anytime your in the back country for any reason? Its not role play.... No matter if I’m scouting for Elk tracks or Bigfoot tracks? The trails are just as narrow, the cliffs are just as tall, and the rivers are just as wide. I dont care if your scouting for pink unicorns and leprachauns? One slip may be the end. No joke. Its no game. I’ve had horses roll over me and crack ribs, Mules upside down in creeks, bucked off, hypothermia at 10,000 feet in the Bighorns of Idaho in late October. This isnt a “game” for pot smoking, cheetos munching, kids rolling fantasy dice in their parents basement. Bgfoot may be a myth. I dont know for myself. But the rest of it? Is stark reality. I dont even know if you dont live in western north America? If you really even comprehend it. And no that one summer trip to Yellowstone doesnt count. And I guess thats why I bristle at the notion that this is just a role playing game. It may be for some? Sitting around the campfire at some state park campsite in Ohio and tell spooky Bigfoot stories while eating smores, do some wood knocks and whoops, listen to forest sounds and get freaked out together and convince each other that Coyote howl isnt really a Coyote at all...... yah I get the comparison. Thats not me. Try rolling out of your bed roll at 2am in the morning 50 miles from the trail head because the Stock are going ape shit on the highline. You know Griz are in the area as well as Blacks, Wolves, Cougars......because you have seen their tracks, or them. Your out there in your long johns with a rifle and a flashlight...... by yourself. I dont care how skeptical you are..... in the back of your mind? Bigfoot may just be a myth to you sleeping in your warm bed. But out there in the vast wilderness, in the pitch black, when you know something is out there? He haunts the recesses of your mind. He does mine. And I dont have any problem admitting it. When I crawl out of that tent I am ready to face anything with a metallic taste in my dry mouth. I can control my fear but I will not lie and tell you its not there. Its always there. Maybe its because of some ancient artifact in my DNA. Maybe its the experience I had as a child. Maybe its because I too ate smores and listened to stories around the campfire as a kid. Illogical or not? Its there. I would be lying otherwise. And I bet you my bottom dollar? That these scofftic JREFers? Deep down, way down inside, in the pitch black on that camping trip when a heavy branch snaps close to camp? Its there as well. Its visceral. And its probably why they hang around here..... Its like a morbid fascination that they just cannot tear themselves away from. Or maybe its just because they like to make fun of us weak minded folks that cannot 86 it like they can!
  2. 8 points
    I’m just back from 2 months or so out West. A month of that spent on Cedar Mesa in SE Utah, wandering down rarely traveled side canyons and up over mesas. It’s not exactly prime Sasquatch habitat but it was a trip afield and my eyes were always out for the anomalous. I saw no signs of our big footed quarry, not surprisingly, nor much sign of less cryptid critters, no rattlers, no cougar tracks, though I did see bobcat and coyote prints, and heard the latter sometimes at night. Bighorn sheep were seen a few times down those seldom visited canyons and Pronghorn and Mule deer up top but pleasantly, no indication of human presence. None of the ubiquitous bud lite cans and no trails, not even footprints, just wilderness **** near the way it was a thousand years ago. On setting out from coastal Maine, my intention was to camp somewhere each night along the way as travelers used to—finding a spot that looked good where one wouldn’t be harassed or attacked by marauding bands of any sort of law, out or otherwise and that was not atop asphalt or concrete. I knew this would be easier once I crossed the Mississippi but I didn't suspect Iowa and Nebraska would be so difficult to hide in. it sure is along the I-80 corridor. With the exception of being awoken one morning by tribal police down a heavily rutted and water-holed two-track just South of Lake Erie on the border of the Cattaraugus reservation (They were concerned I was dumping tires or some such.) and the asphalt that 2 of my tires were parked on outside of Moab, Ut, I managed that for 45 nights or so. It was a trip filled with amazing vistas and long eye stretches not to be had in the thickly forested geography of home. Many nights spent perched along canyon rims looking 1000’ down to the wash or river below and not another soul incarnate for miles around, just the ghosts of the ancestors and the mute yet intelligent silence of stone. Segments of that stone had interesting glyphs pecked into it, somewhat representative of a familiar figure. At the end of my journey, after a sojourn in SLC, UT and along with a fellow conspirator we made the trip out to Skinwalker Ranch, a place I’d heard of but not really known much about. After a wee bit of research we decided to check it out. It is still gated and surveilled by cameras with large no trespassing signs at the entrance to the property. It is also guarded by savage skinwalkers in the form of Owls ( we watched a Great Horned for 10 minutes as it hunted the pasture from telephone pole tops) and dogs, one of which attacked the front tire of the vehicle we were in then assumed such a friendly demeanor so as to lure us out of the car and most assuredly claw our hearts out. We weren’t fooled, though later that night we did return to feed him a blueberry muffin:) Skinwalker ridge, above the ranch was our chosen vantage point and is probably accessible had we been in the Rover but we weren’t at the time so we settled for walking across the sagebrush pasture to the South under cover of darkness. After covering maybe a third of the way, my companion began feeling a sense of dread over not what was ahead but what was behind and suggested we leave. I know to trust that intuition and put up no resistance, so back we headed through the scrub and over the barbed wire into town and a somewhat less dangerous venue--Taco Time for fried empenadas…And that’s about all folks.
  3. 7 points
    More likely, given the behavior you've shown here, they simply say what you want to hear so they don't face your ridicule. MIB
  4. 6 points
    True, but that might be primarily because of the military role they expected the apes to play. Dogs have been weaponized since before recorded human history and they remain in use for multiple roles. We’ve used chimps as human-like guinea pigs in the space race and other scientific experiments. Dolphins are in use currently in several naval roles. Frankly, I don’t see a role for apes or sasquatches that humans can’t do better primarily due to reliability. Dogs and dolphins want to please. Even humans are iffy on that account. Mature apes and sasquatches would as soon blow you off as a bear would, especially males. Even R&R time with the local women doesn’t seem to improve their attitudes and cooperation. They’re like our own Incorrigible1: completely incorrigible..........especially with the local women..........
  5. 6 points
    Two weeks elk archery hunting no luck but still a great time. Skamania County WA, right in the heart of BF country. Squirrels made some great knocks with those big fir cones. My partner ran into a big black bear that was chowing down on huckleberries. He left the area because all he was carrying was a bow. Took his revolver with him after that. I followed a cougar this morning that was tracking a deer last night. Hope he got it so he wasn't looking for something else for dinner.
  6. 6 points
    Isn't that the whole purpose of this thread? Trying to step up to the plate? Despite the cat calls? Lets get some things straight people. 1) This is a Bigfoot Forum. We discuss things pertaining to Bigfoot...yes? 2) Hiflier has the right as a tax payer to petition his government and his academia who recieves government funding to answer questions he has asked. No matter how ridiculous any person deems them to be. 3) Hiflier does not deserve to be called a “nutjob” or any other names on our forum, just because he is trying to share his findings with us, or defend himself from the caterwauling. 4) If you dont like Hiflier or what he is doing? Don't participate in his thread. Go start your own thread about “Dumb footies asking dumb questions to science” or “I got first place at the science fair in junior high, I am awesome!” Or whatever turns your crank..... 5) Please, please put scofftics on ignore if they bother you. They are trolling you! If it was up to them.....this forum would die a quick death because the Smithsonian says nothing is out there. We are just a bunch of dumb rubes....and they must continue to tell themselves this to inflate their egos. 6) Just because we do not have dead body doesnt mean we cannot analyze and pursue the evidence we do have. I personally do not hold much hope. But I think its great someone is..... Some scientists such as Krantz, Bindernagel, Meldrum and Mionczynski believed the PGF showed a real animal. Maybe there are others....and maybe that scares some people.
  7. 5 points
    Its pretty well-known that many organisms have two aspects to better exploit the environment. The two aspects are 'robust' and 'gracile'. Some examples: ravens and crows, wolves and coyotes, rats and mice. Its well understood that humans are the gracile form of our species. Its a theory that our robust form is extinct. I can tell you that the two individuals I encountered were quite purposeful and obviously self-aware. Who knows if they are our actual robust form (one theory holds that Neanderthals are our robust form); I can't say anything about that.
  8. 5 points
    Haven't been here in ages, but this thread has been entertaining to say the least. Due entirely to my contrarian nature - to the OP - I'll make a few observations. First, I don't think they're migratory or perpetually wandering. Any canny man living in wild country that gets cold knows to set aside food supplies gathered in Summer and Fall. They also know to range and hunt far from their winter quarters - leaving the nearby game alone - as it's hard to hunt in the winter, and the closer game is to your winter quarters - the easier your life will be. Meaning - I think they're largely territorial - they may make a three or four day loop hunting - hitting some areas only once every three to four days - however large that territory would be - it would depend on terrain. Their Summer hunting areas will probably be just a bit different than their Winter quarters - maybe they'll hunt in the next valley over - even at higher elevations - and leave the game alone in the next valley over where they have Winter quarters. Normally, I'd never postulate one way or the other on whether these things are some kind of apes or something else - but I know they're not apes. No guessing, I know. Which would be why they're so adept at avoiding those whom they wish to avoid. They're smart. They have tactical excellence. They're finely attuned to their environment. They also have the ability to hide in plain sight. And have the patience of Job. They don't panic. The ape-believing crowd will go ape-**** at that concept - but none of them ever got a really close-up look at their faces. And it's not just me. Native Americans often refer to them as forest people, or forest men, or wild men - and through the ages in multiple cultures - they're often called variations of a wild man. The popular belief in these things being apes - is pushed by scientists - who by their own fabricated "science" and faulty history of man - they cannot allow for any type of cave man to still exist. They dug their hole, deep, and now they're stuck in it. I'd further suggest that if a person sees one, or if that one is making a racket - you're already flanked by others you don't see and aren't aware of - and you should really keep checking your six o'clock position. And while they may be spotted singly most often - I am firmly convinced that they live in family groups, or clans - and they can and do work with others from neighboring families or clans. Which also assists in maintaining a healthy breeding population - which must be really significant. We humans 'own' the day - they've apparently adapted and certainly 'own' the night.
  9. 5 points
    Welllll ... as of September 9th, still existed. How 'bout "know"? It's a good, and fitting, word. MIB
  10. 5 points
    I don't recall where I got this .. well, I do, it was a member of a group I used to camp with, but I don't recall where he got it. MIB
  11. 5 points
    Great questions James. I've been a wildlife biologist for 30 years. The one thing that can be stated with a very high degree of confidence is that nature takes perverse pleasure in making fools of human understanding. With that in mind, every species archetype requires a specific number of individuals for a healthy population. The more complex the organism, the greater number of individuals are needed to avoid species collapse at the genetic level. The smaller the gene pool, the harder long-term survival becomes. There are a large number of factors that have to be considered when calculating the minimum viable population for a species. In humans, the MVP can be as low as 15 individuals or as high as 4000 individuals depending on the variables used, conditions considered and potential morbidity and fecundity rates. We simply don't have enough information regarding bigfoot to make any realistic guesses as to whether the species is growing, stable or in collapse. What they eat will depend on what they are and that hasn't been answered yet. There is a lot of anecdotal information that indicates it's a largish mammal. Popular conjecture is that it is a primate. A strict vegetarian mammal requires a long gut to break down the plant materials consumed. In primates, this normally results in a pot belly physique. Lowland Gorillas are a good example. As protein intake increases, the body shape changes and gets slimmer in the middle. Most reports indicate bigfoot has a high protein diet based on general body description. Another indication of a high protein diet is intelligence. Bigfoot is reported to be very intelligent. If true, then protein is likely present in their diet. There are a number of primate studies that conclude that primates with diets containing 20-50% protein exhibit higher intelligence than strict vegetarian primates. Lowland Gorillas vs. Chimpanzees. You also have to consider brain size. Elephants are fairly intelligent for being herbivores, but their brains are 11-13 pounds compared to humans that have 3 pound brains. However, these musings are all guesses based on what "should" happen. It's inductive reasoning and suffers a few ad ignorantiam fallacies, but fun to consider. That brings us to how much a bigfoot eats. That depends on diet, metabolism, activity, and standard environmental conditions. That requires subjects for study and they seem to be difficult to locate reliably. Until someone figures out how to observe bigfoot for days at a time without them knowing, speculation will be the only information you will find. The same goes for where they sleep. It might be in caves, ground nests, up in trees, in abandoned mines, abandoned structures, or gullies. There is no consensus on this subject, but bigfoot seems to be as opportunistic about its sleeping arrangements. It if is as intelligent as the pundits believe, then it will take whatever the most advantageous accommodations are at the time.
  12. 5 points
    Folks, I don't know about you but this SSR effort is just hands-down a monumental achievement. The concept and subsequent execution of such a task has not been only about classifying the source data- it has also been about working out the bugs in the program and system along the way to which GIGANTOR (and the name SHOULD BE in all caps ) can take the credit as he patiently took in all of the notifications of glitches in the SSR and worked through them in order to have the data perform as desired. BobbyO, who worked diligently in every spare moment he could muster, and RedBone who has been nothing short of a juggernaut who has been unstoppable on getting report after report pigeon holed into the dataset. We owe these people a immense tip of the hat and I personally thank them for what they have done though my thanks falls way short of what they deserve, Thank you guys for staying with your goals when I fell behind, and for doing it all so incredibly well.
  13. 5 points
    I went backpacking into the Siskiyou Wilderness (in northern CA) the first week of July. Spent 3 nights in the mid-section of the wilderness; backpacked from end of northern portion of the GO-road (Boundary Trailhead) down to Elk Valley. This trail is north of the Blue Creek drainage. Elk Valley is where we camped and is the beginning of Blue Creek. After exiting, we drove to the northern end of the Siskiyou Wilderness and spent another 3 nights. One night at Sanger Lake and then we backpacked into Youngs Valley. Youngs Valley is where Clear Creek starts and drains south. We saw plenty of deer on the meadows. We did not see or hear any bear or bigfoot. The wild berries were not out yet. We did find what appeared to be 2 footprints on the Boundary Trail on the way back. They looked like old footprints that were imprinted when the terrain was wet and muddy. One print is human size but could be a double print from a bear or just random formation. The other print is small (like from a toddler) and gives the appearance of showing the toes pushing the mud out. They were not very good and I am not claiming they are from BF but I took pictures anyway in order to document. I doubt that children will walk barefoot where we were. The map below shows where the footprints were found relative to TH entrance and other key places in Siskiyous (like PGF site and Louse camp). First photo is a view of Youngs Valley. Second photo is a view of Blue Creek drainage on the backpack along the ridgeline. Third photo is of what appears to be a small footprint Fourth photo is of what appears to be a footprint
  14. 5 points
    norseman, I'm Native...I consider sasquatch to be a real animal. I've also talked to quite a few Natives who believe they are real, an I've talked to Natives who claimed to have seen one, as well as talking to a few Natives who told me of other Natives who have seen them. I spoke with one Native guy who didn't like talkin' about his sightin', it simply bothered him. He was out huntin' one mornin', heard somethin' movin' on the hill parallel to him, in the mornin' mist he found himself lookin' at a sasquatch carrying a large stick. He seen it clear as, no mistakes, he froze, it froze, he stepped, it stepped, it scared the s out of him so he turned an left, not lookin' back. Only reason he told me was because of my sister-in-law knowin' him well, she told him I was honest in my interest in the subject. I know a Native Elder, a Chief, who told me of knowing Charlie Mack an his brothers, he told me of a sightin' in a creek where the elders were campin' durin' a huntin' trip. Talked to another Native who told me of his friend or relative(it's been a bit), who was countin' salmon, they float down the rivers, he saw one on all fours on the shore, it was lookin at him as he looked at it while he floated downstream. The guy showed me how the guy showed him how it was movin', which was like bein' in the middle of a push up, an then you start walkin away on all fours kinda low, arse up, hands an toes. Talked to another Native, a carver, asked him if he'd heard stories, said he had a friend seen one jump out of a tree, wasn't much to the story, besides his friend bein' freaked out. Reckon there's a few more I could recall. An for the record...I've talked to a few white folks who also consider them to be real animals. I always smile thinkin' of a elderly couple near Whiskey Creek if I recall, one of the local store owners had mentioned they had claimed a sightin'. So I went an said hi, the gentleman said he an his wife were drivin' home, seen a grey or brown big upright somethin' walk across the highway. I recall the wife slappin' his arm, said it was the other colour(brown or grey) as her husband was colour blind. I can't recall the colour she'd confirmed, one or the other. I asked her if she recalled what she saw, she said, big, upright, hairy, said it all happened quick. They mentioned it like you'd mention a neighbours dog barkin' all night, like it just happened is all. I can't confirm their sightin's...but I can state I know Natives who consider these animals to be real based on their own sightin's. An...like I said...this Native considers sasquatch/bigfoot a real thing...a as yet unclassified primate. Pat...
  15. 5 points
    I was just informed that grizzly and black bear have not been tested for hearing. I guess that no one is brave enough to try to get a grizzly to wear the headphones.
  16. 5 points
    I half-way think it would be best if the Forum appended these disclaimers to the Rules. (At least it might somewhat render even more unnecessary the redundant comments from the trollers): 1. YES, we know to date there has been no widely accepted confirmation of a BF bone, tissue or body part. 2. YES, we know that any photographic and/or film, and/or video depiction purporting to show a BF doesn't confirm the species. 3. YES, we know some people hoax BF evidence, including tracks. 4. YES, we realize that no matter how many people report an encounter with a BF, those never will confirm the species. 5. YES, we have access to a calendar, and we know how many years have elapsed since the P/G film was made. 6. YES, we know to date there is no widely accepted analysis of a unique DNA sequence tending to confirm the species. 7. YES, we know our telling others about our own encounters will not confirm the species. 8. AND if you are not willing to let these axioms go unsaid, and you still find it necessary to repeat them at every opportunity, we will ignore you as you do not contribute anything substantive or new to the discussion.
  17. 4 points
    Unless I'm missing something, it could never be positive for sasquatch. There is no baseline to match it against. It could only come out as an undocumented primate.
  18. 4 points
    This is a poor attitude, his line of thinking on an UNONOWN subject is different than yours so he should refrain from posting?
  19. 4 points
    I’m sure this has been done before, but hopefully this is not a nuisance! I’ve collected a few things over the years and of course I look like I’m going on safari for even a short outing. This is my current field gear. First, the wagon: A “new to me” Jeep Commander. 2” lift, Treadwright Wardens. Pretty capable for fire roads and plenty of storage. Next is my “Camera Kit”. Includes: Main camera Nikon D3200. 300mm lens, 50mm lens, cheap kit lens. Sony voice recorder. Backup long zoom camera. Flash. Quad Proof (water, dust, etc) HD video camera. Next is my “Surveillance Kit” Includes: Two game cams Two Cube cams Coleman action cam (2 spare batteries) USB phone/device charger Various charging cables FRS radios SD Card book (about 10 16-32gb cards) Sony voice recorder All of these take power, so batteries: ...and more power. Homemade solar generator using a Rigid storage box. Triple outlet in the front with USB charging ports and remote control for the 800W inverter. Battery is a 100AH gel/closed cell. Two solar panels, 40W each that can charge the main battery or a cell phone/camera in about 40 minutes. (Photo will not upload) Last is the area lighting. 3, 30W LED landscape floodlights. They will light up a football field sized area like day and will run for about 90 minutes on the solar generator. Again, this can be remotely lit (like from inside a tent). Of course...firearms. Home built AR15 w/77gr Barnes Tac-X. G20 with 220 grain hard cast and laser/light combo. Tikka T3 in .270 with 140 gr superformance. Solar generator... Not pictured: DNA sample kit: Includes 2”x 2” ziploc baggies for hair samples. Sterile sampling utensils: Tweezers Forceps scalpel Pliers Surgical masks Sterile gloves Sterile paper bags Sharpieand 1”x2” labels Casting kit: 1 gallon bags with premeasured plaster (not really plaster, I don’t remember the name of it...came i a 20lb bag) Bump helmet with action cam mount Ghillie suit So the question is: What situation am I not prepared for? My primary goal is definitive video, followed by definitive still photography and if possible and safe, to harvest a body. I do have an extensive first aid kit (packet by my wife who used to be an ER nurse). I have camping gear as well as clothing obviously as well as a packed 72hr bugout bag in the vehicle at all times. I carry a Maxpedition Jumbo with a filter straw, trauma kit, water, mainstay survival rations, folding saw and a packable bag (to harvest a body part if necessary) and I always, ALWAYS have a pair of good gloves, Gerber multitool, G20 and general purpose knife on me when more than 50ft from camp.
  20. 4 points
    I have had a terrible suspicion that much cancer might be treatable or preventable but cancer treatment is such a huge industry that there is not a lot of incentive to do anything about it. Infusing poisons into human bodies and hoping that poison kills the cancer before the human dies seems pretty much as barbaric as bleeding for a treatment. When even more expensive gene manipulation therapy replaces chemo we might start to see real results.
  21. 4 points
    Hello Folks, I finally decided to publish my first book that is a first person collection of my early field experiences that had a profound effect on my way of thinking about who and what these elusive subjects of the forest are. I'm not offering proof of their existence, just sharing some of my material with interested folks. I have been blessed with many close encounters and I feel it is the result of my respectful attitude towards them and the fact that I do not intend any harm upon them. The book's title is how I personally feel about them. The preview link to it is listed below: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1719996768?ref_=pe_870760_150889320
  22. 4 points
    haha ! Let's "see", so far sounds like he can do it all pretty much...build a suit, replicate the trackway depth, an walk over similar terrain without lookin'...haha ! I can't help wonderin' the excuses he'd come up with when asked to prove all this.
  23. 4 points
    Want to mention some facts about BF's movements as they relate to the South/Southeastern states. Typically, when it's normal weather, they will leave their bedding area about an hour before dark, and move as slow as molasses, stopping dead still every few yards looking forward and listening. Numerous witnesses have watched them from elevated hunting stands and say that they remain so motionless in open woods with some under story brush and small trees that they just seem to disappear from view. I personally believe they depend as much on their ears as they do on their eyes for detecting movement of people or other animals. When it gets dark or very close to it, and they intend to join others to hunt, they will start, or respond to the "gathering calls" of others of their kind. Basically clock time to them is immaterial, its the time darkness falls which determines their movements in the evening. Their movements during the day time hours - and days of the week - may be related to one or many other factors they have no control over. One of the most common conditions that causes them to move more frequently during the day is the very hot summers and drought years that have plagued the South/ Southeast many times in recent years. It is a dead certainty that during such periods the individuals and family groups establish bedding areas within just a few minutes walking distance of fresh water, when possible, a cold water spring will be their first choice. Many times the animals have had to move as individuals and family groups because of the commencement of the clear cutting or controlled burns of large tracts of land on private lands or in the National Forests. (Timber companies actually own the land and harvest the timber off of huge tracts inside National Forests.) Such work typically is done Monday through Friday, and Bigfoot families will not remain in those areas, although individuals (most likely males) may slip in to watch the action from cover and from a distance. For some reason, they are known to be interested and curious about the work of humans; from their construction of homes in remote areas, cutting and moving timber, or watching people on tractors making food plots for deer and turkey. A friend of mine called me by cell phone one day about three years ago to tell me that he was using a tractor, disk and seed spreader along a river in central AR. He said he was being watched from one part of an adjoining pine thicket by a female Bigfoot "with the prettiest red, shiny hair I've ever seen!" He said the animal would partially hide each time he turned the tractor in her direction, so he pulled his cap down low and slightly bowed his head so he could hide his eyes a little and watched her until he finished the small food plot. He has seen more Bigfoot than I, and spent WAY more time than I in those river bottoms.
  24. 4 points
    I admire your youthful outlook Nathan! My 67 years have taught me great tolerance for what seems immutable and for the thoughtful views of those who see things differently. I do not ignore a few members here, those I term "scofftics", because I fear debate but because they bore me (as do the usual responses to their predictable posts). Retirement gives me the option, by and large, of avoiding things and people that bore me to tears, and there are so many interesting things in this universe.
  25. 4 points
    All of which are no substitute for a firearm......
This leaderboard is set to New York/GMT-04:00
×