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Norseman, the damned things exist. I've been face-to-face with an eight and a half foot tall male wondering whether or not it was going to take my head off first, or my friend's, or my brother's. But telling you that's not good enough. Now, I wasn't a scientist then, but I am now. A bonafide state-licensed, professional chemical engineer. I'm also a West Point Graduate, served on the faculty there, commanded troops, and served on high level staffs. I could go on. But I'll tell you. None of that's good enough. There'll always be some fool more interested in analyzing how I might have been honestly mistaken than in what I actually saw. The fool will eventually demand proof that I wasn't mistaken. Well I can't see one for him and I don't have a body, so he walks away convinced I'm mistaken despite my reputation and credentials. Why should I bother? Eventually the fool may see one for himself, stop bothering me, and share my frustration when he reports his experience. And eventually someone will drag in a body and that will be both the end and the beginning of it. In the meantime, after you get past proving to yourself they exist, I'll be here for you.

But I thought skeptics worked on facts........tangible stuff. What I'm reading above is that your gut instinct tells you the whole subject is fake. Which is fine your certainly entitled to your opinion. But what I don't like to read is when skeptics talk about there not being any good footage out there of an alleged Sasquatch........that it's just all blurry non sense that could just as easily be a charred stump as a Sasquatch. Which is nonsense. But a hoax? Well that's tougher isn't it? My opinion on any media concerning Sasquatch is that we cannot ever rule out a hoax. It has two arms, two legs, walks bipedal and could always be a person in a monkey suit. Another point that I think is important is that when I see footage of Oliver or a Gorilla walking around on two legs..........they look kinda B movie to me as well. Apes don't walk on two legs normally and when they do they look odd to me............and I think that could be a deep seated bias in the human mind. But who is reputable that is out there currently looking for one? I think part of the problem is is that if your apart of the "community" then your footage is "suspect". Which this reputation is certainly well deserved with our past history and the amount of shysters that have been involved in the subject. Which is unfortunate. Here is an example to illustrate my point: http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/memorial_day_bigfoot_video_a_closer_look/ And somewhere in the audio, as the subject comes into view is this: “looks like a white boy to me,†a statement made without a doubt by the late Fred Bradshaw, an avid Bigfooter from Elma, Washington. Having known Fred Bradshaw since 1995, his voice is easily recognizable. Isn’t it convenient, or too convenient, that a Bigfooter would be present when a camping couple just happens to film a Bigfoot? I think the believer side of the coin does one heck of alot more investigation into this phenom, than skeptics do. The problem with that is that you have a believer talking to a believer. So when we watch Finding Bigfoot? There isn't very many accounts that are thrown out. In the case of Todd Standing specifically, Finding Bigfoot did go and talk with him and he told him the area was too dangerous to take them into. That sent up red flags and justifiably so. So I guess that is one case that they were skeptical. With FB/FB I would say these guys do not go out and investigate alleged footage of Sasquatch. They don't look over the scene or talk to witnesses. (I could be wrong). They simply look at footage and make a determination...........certainly not good scientific work. But by the same token skeptics come off as holier than thou.....they are scientific in their approach. So is it fair to hold a you tube channel of believers to the same standard as the skeptics? Shouldn't this make skeptics all the more persistent in their inquiry? I guess skeptics are waiting for some footage to tickle their fancy before becoming more involved..........I'm just rather skeptical that there is something out there in the future that is going to accomplish this. But I wish skeptics would get more involved, if for nothing else to help explain why people see what they see if there is nothing out there to see or photograph or cast tracks from.

That was my thread. But as a skeptic if you take an interest in Sasquatch then you need to hold yourself to the same expectations as the believers. It's not enough to simply take pot shots from the sidelines........you have to get in the game. And to give credit where credit is due, many skeptics do exactly that, but others do not. “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.†― Theodore Roosevelt

I doubt many of us joined this forum to engage with skeptics. And none of us have an obligation to meet any skeptic's demands. I came here to share what I've experienced with other witnesses and to learn from others who have had encounters. It's a complete bore to constantly be harrangued by people who want to drag you into the "Do they or don't they exist?" debate. It impedes advanced discussion. Skeptics have nothing of value to offer me, behave as if they are entitled to demand information that they will then discount out of hand, and too often are prone to derision. Case in point: Norseman, you see my attitude as a cop out. This pre-supposes that I have an obligation to answer any inane question any skeptic may ask, and there's a new crop of them asking the same questions every week. Bull! I had a classmate at the Academy who would come to me the night before his math final every semester. He had a habit of sleeping through math and I had a habit of trying to bring him up to speed on the entire semester instead of preparing for my own final (no value to me because he was in the slow program and I was in the accelerated one). In our third year, just before taps he caught me in the hallway and asked how to solve a problem in his book. So I took a look at it and said: "Ok, first you take the integral..." He then interrupted me and asked "How do I take the intergral?" Which was from his previous semester. I knew he'd have me up all night tutoring him and I'd finally had enough. I closed his book, handed it back to him, said "Dan, I can't help you", walked away, got a good, untroubled night's sleep, and was fresh for my own final. Dan managed to pass and became more responsible for his own education instead of using me asa crutch.

Sorry but I see this as a cop out. While I certainly feel sympathetic to people whom are ridiculed for nothing more than experiencing something that they may have not asked to experience? When the going gets tough the tough get going. I see it all the time, and as a mild proponent (I've seen compelling tracks, but no Squatch) it's the most frustrating thing for me to accept. The anti kill mindset which is the vast majority is very hard for me to accept as well and dove tails directly into this discussion. Maybe I have a alpha personality, but if I saw a no ******** Squatch.........and somebody called me "mistaken" or a "kook" or a "impressionable person". I would want to take concrete evidence and shove it straight down their gullet. But that's me. As it is, my own personal experience was compelling enough for me to go out into the woods with a rifle to take a honest stab at it. So for the person that has actually seen one and tells me that they don't need to prove it to anyone..........or the skeptics have drummed them under ground? Guffaw. The more I hang out in the Bigfoot community the more I come to realize just how self defeating we are. We make it easy for the skeptics, and I really don't have an answer for it. And many of these people I consider to be my friends. If you think your going to get that "aha" footage, or picture or audio that is going to convince skeptics? I think you have a rude awakening headed your way........sorry. If your doing it for your own satisfaction? So be it.

So how much are the Jr. Rhettman badges? Is there a fan-club and membership fee? Feeling very left out here, lol! j/k

BS. It's simple negative reinforcement in most cases. You experience something extraordinary, share it, and get shot down by folks who are certain that you're somehow mistaken. After a while you keep it to yourself for the most part and only share with those who are sincerely interested. Debating skeptics, IMO, is nothing more than a waste of time. At some point you simply decide that they're no longer deserving of your time and effort.