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Responses to recent questions from Georgerm, 1. "CAN YOU TELL US YOUR STORY?" 2. "WERE THEY JUVENILE LOOK OUTS TO MAKE SURE THE HUNTER DIDN'T GET CLOSER TO THE DEN? DO THEY SEND OUT THE JUVENILES SINCE THEY ARE EXPENDABLE BUT IMPORTANT FOR CLAN PROTECTION?" 1) In the first instance I had sort of pin-pointed one small family group's bedding area by listening to that group's big male's gathering (or "time to hunt") call to another male that bedding with his family about a mile away. One very hot day while camped in an area, I decided to see how close I could get to what I thought was the east-side group bedding area. I back-packed in with a CD player, some recorded BF calls, a set of Walker's Hunter's Ears and a lot of water. I followed a very narrow and rough hollow to a point I figured was within three or four hundred yards of the bedding area. (I had decided beforehand that the bedding area had to be on a flat about half way up the mountain.) I sat down and waited about 30 minutes just listening. Heard nothing so I set up the CD player on a big boulder, concealed myself behind the boulder and played a BF recording. (Don't remember which one.) From up on the flat I heard something crashing through the thick cover and heading down hill toward me. The sounds stopped about three hundred yards from me where the flat area ended, and a steep slope descended to the dry creek in the hollow. The slope contained a thick stand of old-growth pine trees, a lot of black jack oaks and an under-story of winter huckleberries. I could not see much on the upper part of the slope but scanned the fairly open lower part of the ridge with binoculars. I saw nothing of interest. Although there was not even a breeze blowing, I heard the deafening sound of a large dead tree falling in the upper slope area. Nothing else was seen or heard. I had been watching and listening to a thunderstorm approaching from the south, - the other side of my camp. Since I had no rain protection for the electronic equipment, I started back toward the camp which was about 3/4 mile away. After walking briskly for several minutes I figured I was close enough to the camp to beat the rain if I played another quick call. I played the call and immediately put on the Hunter's Ears. As soon as I turned them on I heard a very deep and loud growling/snarling sound from a steep, rocky, and brush-covered rock outcrop just across the narrow hollow from me. Although I carefully scanned the slope with binoculars, I saw no brush movement and no animal. After watching a while, I barely beat the rain to my truck. Several days later I hiked back to the location in which I first played the calls and slowly started walking (sneaking) up the slope toward the flat. When I neared the top of the ridge that led directly to the high point the flat was on, I heard loud, repetitive, hooting and grunting sounds coming from the high point that were very similar to those sounds made by howler monkeys or apes when agitated. The noises were very aggressive sounding. Since I was alone and unarmed – firearms were not allowed in the area that time of year - I chose not to try to approach the animal making the sounds. The sounds continued until I left the area. During the next very hot and dry summer I found three cold-water springs that both the two groups depended on for fresh water. (Their tracks were very evident in the grit and sand around the edges of the springs, and the outline of their feet were shown as grit and sand on some of the large rocks nearby.) Every creek, branch and even the upper part of the small river that heads in that general area was dry. I decided to camp in the area for several days and try to slip onto a brush-covered rocky cliff that overlooked the largest spring closest to both of the groups’ bedding areas. I was camped about a mile from the spring. One day at noon – the temperature was 104 degrees – I started walking toward the spring. The spring was located in a creek bed at the west side base of the cliff I chose for my observation point. I was approaching the spring from the east. Across the hollow from the spring was a much larger, higher and heavily wooded ridge. As I slowly approached the crest of the lower ridge, a series of deafening roaring and bellowing sounds erupted from a higher elevation on the ridge to the west. I was so awe struck by the volume of the sounds I simply froze in my tracks. When the sounds began, I heard crashing sounds to my right. Barely turning my head, I saw two large buck deer leaving the area at full speed. Within seconds I also heard crashing sounds and rock clicking sounds coming from the spring’s location. At the same time the sounds from the opposite ridge changed to what can only be described as unbelievably loud gorilla “hooting†sounds. As soon as I turned to walk away, I heard the sounds of large green limbs or tree tops being broken, Glancing over my shoulder as I walked away, all I could see was tree tops and limbs shaking. (Not a breeze had blown all day.) When I had walked back down the side of the ridge for about fifty yards, the woods became silent again. I walked for about another hundred yards and then I sat down on a shaded boulder to drink some cold water and watch my back trail. I had a little trouble opening the water bottle because the bottle would not be still, but I did not see anything following me. (I do not know if I had interrupted the BF family members drinking at the spring, or if the group was just approaching the spring when the male spotted me. It could have been other deer I heard running up the hollow from the spring.) 2) I really think the security of the family groups is left up to the mature males, at least during the day. When the mature males are hunting and foraging at night, the juvenile males may very well take over that duty.