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Ok............two points, one towards your ufology and the other towards your comment highlighted. 1) One full year BEFORE Arnold's encounter at Mt. Rainer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_UFO_incident Read the headline on the paper............"RAAF captures FLYING SAUCER on ranch in Roswell region." Not only does this destroy your assumption that the birth of the term "flying saucer" was born with Arnold..........it also destroys your assumption that it's the start of a craze............the people's own GOVERNMENT made a claim of capturing a flying saucer. Which it later recanted as just a weather balloon. Roswell is ground zero of modern ufology, end of story. There are more conspiracy theories from that event than almost the rest of ufology combined. I personally find it funny that we now know that the Air Force was trying to develop flying wing technology seized from Germany at the end of WW2........ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horten_Ho_229 Looks kinda like a crescent doesn't it? Anyhow..........not a good analogy and not a very wise statement you made that I highlighted. Fred Beck uses the term "hairy Apes" to describe his encounter......... http://www.bigfootencounters.com/classics/beck.htm Here again, this story ran in many newspapers, it's a popular story, I knew it as a kid and it freakin says APE MEN right in the title!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! More importantly it was ran in the press in 1924!!!!! Jerry........I'm being as open minded as I possibly can be to you. As a gesture of extending an olive branch to your position? I can say without a doubt that the term Bigfoot was coined in N. California during the 1950's. I can say without a doubt that Green and Dahinden made large contributions to the myth of Bigfoot during their lifetimes. Unfortunately you dogmatically hold on to the assumption that they completely invented the modern myth of Bigfoot/Sasquatch. This has been proven to be absolutely false.......... You can fight me over terminology..........you can fight me over what this story is saying or that story is describing, that it's a misidentification or another myth all together. That's all fine and good. But when you state there was no one describing ape men in the hinterlands prior to Green or Dahinden when I can plainly show you there were? I've kicked the chair right out from under you. You have Wrabbit to thank for that one by the way........I knew they were there but he found them and linked them to this debate. That part of your argument is over..........if you doggedly stick to this line of reasoning, then you abandon logic and critical thinking. The newspaper clippings are not fictitious in any way.........and they are the final nail in the coffin. Now, with that out of the way? Some food for thought here..........with as much emphasis as you place on Green and Dahinden? I wonder if children being born today will even know about them? Or if the myth of Sasquatch will come to them from the Barackman's, Bobo's and Moneymaker's of the world here today with their own TV shows? Also, another baffling thing to me in your debate was that you completely left out the PGF as a crux moment in the myth of Sasquatch. Personally I think the Crew story would have been just another Beck story if it had not been for that film in the same area a decade later. In fact I would argue that the PGF is our Roswell.............it is the most important moment of this subject bar none. And here again...........there are more conspiracy stories that we talk about even today surrounding that film than any other single point in the myth, without a doubt. In the case of Roswell, our government's admittance to capturing a flying saucer was what put gravitas into the myth. And same goes for the PGF...........just Ape man stories by local yocals until people saw it with their own eyes. Again, I want to remind everyone that this debate was not about discussing the REALITY of Bigfoot or Sasquatch.........just the origins of the myth. I think I've flatly beaten Jerry in this debate with facts and logic (you can be the judge), but I've only beaten him in proving the myth has been around longer than John Green has. He is still a skeptic, and in the question of Sasquatch being a real animal, science is still on his side, and it's up to proponents to prove him wrong. Which we haven't done a very good job of for quite sometime. Thanks Jerry!

Do you have a doctorate in Biology your holding back from us? Let me explain my position better........... I do not have a doctorate in Biology, and my chances of getting a paper vetted by Nat Geo is about as likely as dating the whole entire Swedish bikini team. Nor do I have any money to hire Biologists, Helicopters, Veterinarians................etc. And neither does anybody else on this forum. Which is why I'm very hard core pro kill...........I can afford to own a rifle and some modest means of entering the back country. And I don't need a Doctorate to put a bead on ole fuzzy back neither. I'll leave DNA studies, habitat studies, pongid studies, etc..................ALL to the experts when they get here. We just need a body so that they will accept the invitation. But until they do? Your stuck with what you have got.