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So.... There are no Bigfoot because there is no evidence and all evidence must have an alternate explanation because there is no Bigfoot?

I believe you're referring to two (2) separate incidents as my understanding is the vehicle was shot up during a night event and the "whatever" was shot subsequently during a daylight operation. Personally, I do not condemn the pro-kill advocates but know they are travelling the wrong path however, to each his/her own. Also, remember these events took place when the buzz was that Dr. Ketchum was on the cusp of ground-breaking news and the #!@* dude had allegedly shot a BF, so the impetus was to race and be there first with a body. Desperate people do desperate things.

They don't grow as fast if you unplug them at night.

Because, IMHO, any one study might be flawed. (Ketchum.) However, if you have Sykes, Disotell, and a couple others independently coming to the same conclusion, the odds of a single lab using faulty equipment or faulty procedures drops considerably. It's a matter of chi-squared, plain and simple: repeatability supports validity. That's how lab science works. It does not prove the thing you found is rightly called "bigfoot" but it does predict there is something real, something beyond experimental error, in play. It might not sell to the general public who may not be as familiar with the principles involved but legitimate scientists will definitely start paying attention in greater numbers. MIB

You can read all about the live-fire incident in the NAWAC's study Area X in that thread. In short, it was reported a BF was sighted in daylight and a shot was taken. As bad luck would have it, there were also some unexpected visitors who were just arriving at that time, and they were in the general vicinity to the incident. When this was realized by the NAWAC members, a great deal of confusion and concern for safety naturally occurred. As a result, the efffort to follow-up on the shot was compromised. A blood drop on a rock was found some while later (don't recall how much later), and a sample of it was taken, but it had been exposed too long and the lab report was, if I recall correctly, "inconclusive." I happen to agree with the pro-kill stance of both the NAWAC and Norseman's Project G., for the reasons both they and he put forward. Before any of the species we know of today (both rare and common) were accepted by science, at least one specimen of the species was killed and collected. If it could be done by photos and DNA studies, it would be fair to argue for that in the alternative. We know that has proven to be a futile effort. Even the quality of the PG film hasn't swayed those who need convincing. That one must die so that all the others may have a better chance to live is a seemingly callous contradiction, but...it is nonetheless the way science, biology and human nature operate.

I would be interested to hear these clips that are said to sound like frogs voices or the researchers voices as described in the original post. This chatter or possible language is not a made up phenomenon { though some may be faking stuff or even unknowingly recording them selves at a distance }, I have personally heard { and recorded } these sounds in the field. I use to think it was a bunch of garbage tossed into stories to make them fun or exciting as Terry suggested above but this simply is not the case. There is a considerable amount of this type of audio that is not public and only shared among private groups.

Not to pick upon anyone in particular, however using Norseman's contention he would reach for the rifle first and camera second which is to presume he's actively hunting with a firearm, consider the following from a forensic/legal perspective: 1) How does anyone know exactly what it is they're hunting? 2) What proof do they possess to support any contentions of what these things are? IMO, basically, if you cannot validate these items, you are engaging in a shoot first, ask questions later proposition, from a forensic and legal perspective. I'm aware of two separate incidents where "something" was shot and blood samples recovered with DNA analysis allegedly being conducted. The latest such event supposedly was perpetrated by individuals affiliated with what was the TBRC organization but I understand they have subsequently changed the name of their group to something with Wood Ape in the title. A subject was allegedly shot somewhere in the Kiamichi mountians in SE Oklahoma with blood samples recovered and supposedly sent in for DNA analysis, etc.. Has anyone heard of what the results of this analysis yielded? 1) Was it some unknown species? 2) Was it a bear or some other known fauna? 3) Was it human? The point is simply, before you load up the elephant gun and head off to the woods to shoot one, shouldn't you have a firm grasp of what an elephant actually looks like?

Wow, BC Witness, I didn't think about an owl. Do owls make a flash and send out a steady light for a few seconds? Hell, if the owl do that, I will be very happy with that explanation. Flash owls! Do they do that? It was like a pop that caught my eye and then it hung out for a few seconds and went away. If that was an owl, wow, that would be a good explanation. I heard an owl later that night when I went out again. It was in that same direction. The only thing that would make me think that it wasn't an owl is that I didn't have a flashlight or anything shining on it. Do they just have eye glow? GuyinIndiana - your question is valid. The engineer in our house has been known to say, "You think everything is Bigfoot." But here is why I think that after 5 days of thinking about it and talking about it. 1) We are on private property in the country and it would be a very bold move for someone to be on our side of the hill when the nearest person in that direction is about two miles away, farmland inbetween. 2) But there have been snowmobile tracks recently sited in the area. However, if it was a snowmobile, they would have been down the steepest part of the hill landing in trees. 3) If it were raccoon hunters, I would have heard their hound dogs 4) There was no traffic on the road 5) I wasn't shining a light on the hill 6) Light from the house was lower than the hill 7) It wasn't a helicopter or a small plane, I used to work at a private airport It was down our side of the hill. 9) Our nearest neighbors are at least 1/3 of a mile down the road in the other direction 10) There was nothing to reflect the light such as a pole or wire or satellite dish, just trees and brush 11) It's a flap here for BF activity, some of which has been documented very close to our house by researchers 12) Not to mention all of my personal experiences these past months >>Thinking "every possible way" "you're a dream to me" song playing now by the Cranberries<< 13) Too many coincidences with me hanging out being free, dancing or singing or enjoying the outdoors where we live, being mindful that the BF have been here, wondering if they still are, sort of asking for it to show up, but then blowing it off not caring, listening to tunes instead of surrounding, just enjoying the scenery, happy that it was over 20 degrees. Appreciating our place here, living the dream, thinking of nothing but how great it is, and POW! What the h was that? I didn't ask for it, but I guess I did maybe. 14) Thinking about it for 5 days, asking for information to help verify All I can say is that stuff keeps happening here. Every time I get complacent and think that it was whatever, and maybe it's gone, something else happens. I swear I'm not going nuts. Thank God I have the engineer to keep my grounded. Sure, every time I wake him up when something happens, or I come inside when he's in the kitchen and tell him what happened, it sounds fantastical. But when it keeps happening, that's what I end up thinking it is when I can't find another explanation. Sometimes I think that I spend too much time trying to find other explanations. I'm kind of over that now. The dang things are here. That part I know and there are others in this area that are serious and have documented it with resesarchers a year before I saw one and even knew that it was here. I just thought that sure, it may be real, but maybe in the great northwest, but Ohio? Then come to find out after I saw it, that other serious people saw it a mile from where I did? Then to hear it with my brother in law! Thank God I was not the only one that heard that. It's such a great moment when you find out that you're not the only one. Then our friend sees it in our backyard watching us when we are camping out? Then I have autumn comes and rocks or whatever hits the house, in what I feel is a reaction to me. Then, and continuing tree knocks that are not deer? Maybe it's the distant neighbors. Or maybe its an owl. Hey, I'll be the first to come back to you all and tell you if I have a conversation with the neighbors and find out if they were out Memorial Day weekend making SSQ calls at 0130 in the 35 degree weather. What we heard, did not sound human. The first one sounded exactly like my bro in law who is good at calling them. So we were intrigued, but then he called it again and what we heard back literally blew me out of my camp chair. I have lived here for 14 years and spent a lot of time outside. I know my night sounds. What we heard literally had me on the ground laughing because it was the greatest moment to be verified by someone that was straight up and still doesn't talk about it much to this day, unless I prod him. Then to spend the summer wondering about it. And have the fall experiences get deep thick and black. Then to make peace with it and occasionally I'll hear a knock that I know isn't deer. I mention it, but Thursday night, that was a major deal. I had no trouble seeing that 400' away. The distance may be in question. It could be 500' or less than 400. I posted the picture, so you see that's where I was. I was at that same place tonight. I stood there and thought about what happened, and I am more sure today that with all the BF stuff going on around here, that, more chances than not, that's my best explanation. Seriously, unless owl give off a bright light, almost flashed to get my attention, I think it's a BF. They are here, it's already documented. I was in the right frame of mind, free and light connecting with nature, not wasted or whatever. That's just how it happens. I'm not looking for it, and something happens. This, to me, just feels like the same. It was my second reaction. My first was WTH was that? After I went down the initial list in my mind, and laughed at my conclusion. WOW! I think that I just saw eye something. Unless owls can do that, because I heard one in that same place later that night. Or it was a BF because they KEEP SHOWING UP HERE! Or maybe it's all in my imagination. But the best part is that, I'm not the only one! And I didn't find out that until after I saw it. So that's part of the reason I think it was a SSQ. P.S. I used to live in Indiana for 4 years in college. Love the Hoosier state!