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My only additonal thought is just a general observation about all internet discussions, and not just as it interects with the late NAWAC thread. Al Gore's invention can enable us all to speak before we think, and induces an ever-acccelerating need to be the first to put his marker down on a conclusion. Necessarily, we are all doing that on imperfect information. The predicted result is that we can come to hasty and unfounded conclusions, even though the intent is only to discuss. Sometimes this predicted result does not happen, and there is a definitive conclusion that can reasonably be drawn from the limited information (Case in point, the "Primate Hand" thread, where photos alone pretty conclusively showed it was not) but many, many times, the information is less definitive by nature (Brown Thermal anyone?) or there may be key pieces of information missing.....as was the case, apparently, in the NAWAC thread. What you get in those cases is a bunch of warring factions, each lobbying for their favorite conclusion, and all without the crucial information required. It goes nowhere fast when that happens. In a field like this, where so much is uncertain, our conclusions might should more often reflect that uncertainty. More often that not, the prudent response to information we are provided here might best be, "Hmmm....I sure would like to know more about this."

Where does he get that idea from...(sarcasm) Sometimes I wish I had just kept my encounters to my self , but the need to connect with like folks was important to me. I have this inner drive to learn the truths of things...other people not so much though and as they say "ignorance is bliss" holds some value I feel.

And it's my opinion and observation that you have a thinly veiled agenda to discredit any and all pro kill organizations because you disagree with the mission on moral grounds. And you have been at it for a long time. I have nothing personal against someone who does not feel it is moral to collect a type specimen. No matter how misguided I feel that stance is. But I do have something against slander based on political motives. And for the record I'am pro kill and active, and you have not observed me, so am I lumped in with the rest of the "inept"?

Norse, I respectfully disagree as my observations (and, thus conclusions) are based upon first-hand interaction with the bunch in NW Louisiana (the ones currently on cable), a couple of guys in the Kiamichi's, and close observation (and, interaction with past & present members) of a bunch based out of Stilwell, Oklahoma. All pro-kill and all (IMO) as inept as NAWAC.

OK, cool.

Kinda cool but fiction. A member on a survivalist board managed to backtrack the story to the kid who originally wrote it as a school assignment for a creative writing class. I don't think the kid was local to the area but they clearly did their homework. I've been to the location many times. A few details are off. It's not an ice cream joint, it's a place called Becky's which is locally famous for some amazing pie. The travel times are a little off for the conditions ... in winter, driving it fast enough to get from the summit to Becky's in 45 minutes would be a death ride. For whatever it's worth, IMHO it is definitely bigfoot country, just not in winter as described. The reports from that area are June through August. MIB

Dmaker's point is that none of the evidence is evidence, because it is falsifiable (with exception of anecdotes) and therefore not proof. I find it circular, because proof is a cogency of evidence that compells acceptance of the mind of a truth or fact. With all evidence assigned a zero value, some people will never get there until they are told by a panel of scientists to accept they are real.