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So there were two camp sites at different times? one with casings at the scene of a 45 cal,and another with none. How far apart were the two incidents from each other? which came first the camp site with the casings? This would change my view of what might have happened. Everything is assumptions , we cannot take it all with a grain of salt. Maybe there was a incident where a creature had visited one camp , scared the crap out of those folks and they shot at it to get away. They were freaked out at what they seen and bugged out. I had incident where we were camping in the northern part of Michigan. I had brought with me my M1 carbine and we started shooting it in camp, a camp that was being visited by these creatures. It was in the morning and we were shooting at this big thick tree, well unknowingly we did not know that there was a creature behind this tree. Well I packed my stuff and left the area and as I left no one had passed me on my way out. Another researcher was to meet back at the camp site with some one else. Well that researcher made it to the camp site and found the logs around our fire pit thrown about. even a large log was wedge between these two tree's. You can read the incident on BFF 1.0 or the first BFF before the changes. It is all there to read and I there are pictures. So maybe if everything lines up right with the two incidents, It might of have been done by a enraged creature. No one likes being shot and that means these creatures. This log wedge in the tree was big and heavy and there was no way of pulling it out.. But we knew then not to shoot our guns at trees.

Gum This forum would be no fun if we all agreed on everything. In fact, it's the opposing views that allow us to explore new ideas and help expand the possibilities of learning about our mysterious subject. I like to play "devils advocate" as well because it helps look at all the angles. However, Garrets story has developed holes faster than he or SC can patch them. Earlier I asked about the 45 casings because I heard Bob, in an interview, mention they were on all sides of the camp, as if "somebody was defending the camp from attackers." However, the casings were not seen in the original video, nor in any subsequent videos. Maybe he added the casings to help add color to his story? Who knows but they were not there when he made his video and he would have filmed them, had they been present... This does not balance out well; does it? A better example would be if I was also telling a story about a crazy encounter with Bigfoot and Bob claimed my story was not true because I had no proof. However, I have not made any claims about an encounter. I have just given my opinion about the veracity of Bob's story. Bob is making a claim, not giving his opinion. Two different concepts.

Well for a BF outdoors is his house. Perhaps BF wants order and hates the trash humans throw all over the place in the woods. So just as we do inside, with our food remnants, BF stacks bones in an orderly way.

In 2007, Bill Miller and myself were about 15 kilometers up Garnet Creek F.S.R. in south west British Columbia, riding in Bills 6 wheel Polaris Ranger when ahead we spotted a shoe on the side of the trail. A little further up we came across a discarded small pack and a second shoe, both of which which looked as though it had been lying around for some time? only a few paces from there were a dry creek bed passes over the old road, (Spring runoff stream, now dry) we found the spinal column and rib cage that to Bill and myself looked as though it could be human? no other part of the skeleton was around. But there was weathered and hard to read papers in the pack. We took that with us and brought the pack to the RCMP. They asked us if we found any other remains, we hadn't, and then the strange part happened. He asked if we were going back up there. We said yes, thinking a team or something would be following us, he then handed us a orange plastic bag, like the ones you use when racking leaves, and said, "Bring the remains in for us will you?". We kind of looked at each other in disbelief for a moment. And i think I said something like, "Well can you at least tell the boys at the check stops what we are doing so we don't get a hard time for having possible human remains in our truck"! He chuckled and told us not to worry about it. Well we did go back and bag the remains and brought them in. The officer said something about the pack we brought in might belong to a man who had been missing for 4 years? However we were never informed of any follow up investigation. Hardly C.S.I. That might not be the creepiest or scariest thing to happen to me in 37 years of research but it was the weirdest. Thomas Steenburg

Forgot in all this is SASCHRON actively advertised for stories. I have never had another tech show/blogtalk show on BF spam me with requests for such. Fishing expeditions frequently catch fish. Sometimes those fish are Asian carp . Sometimes they jump in your boat whether you have a line wet or not. Sometimes they knock you out. Sometimes it's just all about the ride, facts be damned. True invasives or false positives? Whatever your point of view

Don't be silly, Cisco. Obviously the RBRT* used a brass magnet to spirit them away... *Rogue Bigfoot Response Team

In our research we did look at the possible predators of elk in the PNW. Yes I have found deer killed by coyotes. The damage done by them is usually in hind leg and lower throat areas. Cougars are the most likely suspects of the known predators that do prey on elk. They usually attack the neck area. Be it at the back of the neck or the throat area. A bear may inflict this type of damage though black bears are more opportunistic and would go for the fawns and calves, plus that fits their foraging styles. These were mature cow elk in the two to five year old range. There are no confirmed wolf packs or grizzlies in this area. Though in our research we did not rule them out as possibilities. This brings us back to the evidence presented in our research which we can't ignore, regardless of the method of killing the animals. That is the disarticulation while feeding, the tooth impressions in the bones, and the stacking behavior. One thing I see that people are not realizing here is that the type of predator that fed on a kill can be and has been researched and is currently being used to identify the predators responsible or the scavengers after the fact. Using this forensic research we found that we have something not previously identified going on here. It is the bones, and the story they tell that is important here. The method of killing is just speculation.

YES, personal seeing is PERSONAL believing. Many of us that have seen them and I have now seen several, it doesn't even matter what others think, it is what it is. But, as long as people are respectful of those of us that KNOW for ourselves, it is all good. KB

Misidentification exists, granted, and it may well account for a large majority of sightings. However, I think it is much more difficult to dismiss or explain away cases of seasoned outdoorsmen (hunters, trappers, etc.) who are quite familiar with the 'other' things it could have been like bear, people, etc. and still say "this is something else". Those in particular are the cases that defy easy explanation and need to be taken very, very seriously.

So Freeman's not a hoaxer in the true meaning of the word ( Tontar style ) after all ?

Freeman was not a hoax... he wanted to make a set of feet for testing and to determine the weights based on depth of the prints he was finding and it was taken out of context...that has long been put to bed but yet some always bring it up. Heres an article on the juvenile, if you view the original you can see it. http://www.oregonbigfoot.com/bigfoot_video/freeman_bigfoot.php