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WSA: The term "tree manipulation" is so broad that some folks are prone to attribute all manner of natural breakage, damage and deformation of trees to BF. An example; several years ago I visited with a very well known BF "hunter" on his "prime" research property in an adjoining state. I was pretty sure there was BF on that land because I had found old BF tracks before he arrived. Over much of the old oak wetlands there were spindly sweet gum, elm and pine trees covered by honeysuckle, cross vines, green briers, etc. The weight of vines on these tall, but thin, trees had bent the tips to the ground, forming cave-like recesses under them. My host pointed out every one of those we passed as being known BF beds, although the duff under the structures had never been compacted or disturbed. Most of the time it is not hard to determine if softwood trees have been broken by snow/ice loads in our area. The snow/ice accumulates on the side exposed to the winds at the time of loading, causing nearly all of the trees to fall in the same direction when they break. Another factor causing some strange configurations of fallen trees is the severe damage done by various destructive insects. Different types of trees in a particular area that die and fall at different times and in different directions can present a puzzling "formation".. Having said that - which most woods rats already know - I can say with absolute certainty that Bigfoot does manipulate, twist, twist off live trees and sometimes moves large dead-fall trees to serve their purpose. If the twists and twisted off trees - usually softwoods but not always - are of a significant size, the evidence that a BF was responsible can be seen clearly by close inspection in nearly every case. The same can be said about large fallen trees that BF have moved for a purpose. If a living softwood trees, with a diameter of about, or greater than 4â€, are twisted and bent to the ground or left hanging, there will be clearly seen abrasions on the trunks or on major limbs that show the approximate width of the BF’s hands. The abrasions often remove the bark and expose the cambium layer. (The condition of the sap that seeps from the cambium can give a person a very good estimate of the time of the damage.) If the “twists†were done fairly recently, and heavy rains or snow have not obliterated them, there will be BF feet impressions in the ground or duff at the spot the initial force was applied. Tree twists or twist offs are nearly always meant to be territorial markers for BF as purple “No Trespassing†signs are for humans. Many of the “twists†I’ve closely inspected occur on property that had no residential housing or hunting camps on it for many years, but was purchased and developed or leased to hunters who built permanent camp houses on it. In one particular case in the western part of our state, a couple had cut a road onto several acres they had purchased and placed a “tip out†travel trailer near the center of that land. BF gave them Hades for years. During one trip over there I saw a fairly large maple tree that had been broken over and twisted. The damage to the bark on the trunk and lower limbs, and tracks in the nearby garden showed convincing evidence that more than one BF pulled the tree down. A few years ago I was called by a member (later a LEO) of a hunting club in the central part of the state. Their leased land was very hilly and steep in places. There was also a gas/oil pipeline that ran across the property. The members made an ATV trail alongside the pipeline to access a hunting stand on top of a ridge near the eastern border of their lease. At one point on the trail, it closely passed a steep cliff which had been made by dozers when the pipeline was laid. The timber on the opposite side of the trail was very thick – mostly blackjack oak with a few old grown pines – and the hillside was strewn with large rock and boulders. Some of the old pines had been killed by borers and had been felled by the wind or some other force. I was called by a member I knew well and who had experienced an encounter with a BF a few years earlier, because he wanted me to see something that would interest me, A few members, he and I drove to the cliff. They showed me a long section of a very large dead pine with part of the root system, stump and broken limbs attached. That part of the tree had been dragged from its original location and placed across the ATV trail a few nights before I arrived. That original position was about twenty five yards of the trail. The tree’s placement and its diameter effectively blocked the use of the trail by an ATV, Tracks along the drag trail clearly showed that more than two BF had moved the tree. A chain saw, two ATVs and some men finally removed the tree from the trail. That county has generated several BF reports lately and many in the past, some of which I have investigated and posted on the BFRO and other web sites. Pardon the long post; I know some member have complained about that. J

One needs only stop after your first sentence, DWA.

What does your comment have to do with tree breaks? You make the same comment in every thread and then complain about people pushing agendas and being off topic.

Well, one would first have to publish a bigfoot paper in a peer reviewed journal before one could charge peers with ignoring it or obstructing it. So, how many peer reviewed journals have bigfoot articles? And before you mention RHI, let's restrict this to the same peer reviewed journals that any biologist would submit to? Not just the single bigfoot friendly journal on the planet? You know, just to be objective and fair. Why can't the peer review process used by every other journal where discoveries are presented and accepted, even by enthusiasts on this board, be good enough for bigfoot papers? Every time there is a novel discovery dealing with the history of mankind people here get all excited. And rightfully so, that stuff is exciting. No one seems to have a problem with Nature when it publishes something that is perceived as friendly to enthusiasts, so let's not suddenly claim that Nature, for example, is not a fair example of a journal due to bias, etc. Nature seems fair enough when you like what they have to say.

Ghosts are ghosts period. As I stated before, two of my daughters and I experienced the real phenomenon twice in one night at an old empty residence I used to live in as a child. Now my father on the other hand, said as a child that he and his sisters used to walk by the local cemetery and were scared to the point of running home by the sounds of moaning emanating from the graves. My father later learned the drunks from the local bar would go to the cemetery and moan when sick. Happy Halloween!

Hello JDL, Yes, I agree. But DWA's post was off on at least two levels. Slamming all credentialed scientists, slamming the one's in the public arena who trust them and issuing a post in the usual off topic manner about the usual pet topic of his own- science and it shortcomings. And now I'm off topic as well, sorry.

^^ That is the absurdity. Every single one of those animals you mentioned are well known to science and the world at large. To suggest than an animal larger than most of those even behaves the same way and cannot even be captured on film? Ridiculous. Your post only emphasis the absurdity of the whole thing.

Possibly, but I wouldn't want to be the guy that has the job of mixing that concoction.

Well, it's not absurd due to the fact that all large north american animals have exhibited the behavior you are describing as absurd. What is absurd is that we have not been able to obtain proof. Or, if someone has, it has been effectively swept under a rug somewhere.

Don't doubt you for a second, but totally unrelated to the incident I described.

True...not proven. But not impossible. Just not probable.

Trees get dragged in to block off ATV and off road trails in general all the time. Many multi-use trails around here suddenly end up with a tree across it. It is the horse riders and pedestrians that do it who believe that motorized vehicles have no place on the trails.

DWA- what is your background in "the sciences"? Just wondering because you're referring to yourself like a scientist.

There is likely no such thing as a skunk ape. We have escaped primates. I am filmiliar with their capture and hoaxes. Funny thing about so called skunk apes. Visitors from the north see them and report them. , Locals rarely ever do. Conclusion : Not proven.

Thats what Smeja supposedly shot his squatch with....https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.25-06_Remington I would stick with Deer with that cartridge.

Maybe the reason there are so many Sasquatch reports from around graveyards is because Sasquatch is a ghost buster.

A witness on a TV show I saw years ago said he had a Bigfoot in his sights but couldn't pull the trigger because it seemed human like.

Hello DWA, Yes, but you should let it go on threads such as this where you are not going head to head with them. It only serves to unproductively draw them into the discussion. Some may call it baiting.

Actually, as a sane, responsible and productive member of society, I absolutely get to be the judge of what is absurd, though granted flexibility exists. Hipster beards, stretched ear lobes and neck tattoos? Absurd. Easily explained. You look like ISIS, no woman (or man) ever wants to kiss your Nigeria Manson drooping fail, that rose and anaconda on your neck will be there forever, should you be able to imagine any need for employment outside this decade. Gavin here feels otherwise... Bigfoot trailer park North Dakota unclassified species. Absurd. One of the largest land mammals in North America living in every state and province, coming into trailer parks, people's houses, etc, and being unknown to science is not only absurd, if that is the world you live in and you think that is reasonable, you're making Gavin look conservative. Feel free to explain why it's not absurd.

"No facts, no proof, no authority, just an opinionated outlook on the subject." Doesn't that pretty much sum up most peoples position here, enthusiast or skeptic?

Well, semantically speaking of course. But that goes for anything, anybody ever says in the history of the world. Did the Civil War ever happen? No one living has any idea it really did. Maybe some folks just dumped a bunch of war artifacts across the eastern seaboard and hoaxed the history books (OK, totally not the same, but I went overboard to make a point). The difference being, I don't arm-chair quarter back them (American Football Reference) saying they hallucinated or were hoaxed. This phenomena is alive and well in ND. Be it a social construct spanning all religions, political affiliations, and economic standings, or a real creature.

Your tactic of trying to point to every claimed encounter wouldn't work. It hasn't worked in this public forum and never will since, as you know, the reports aren't evidence. Repeatedly braying otherwise hasn't gotten sassy any closer to classification. Debating anecdotal reports will never provide proof. Proof will come with dissection. It isn't critical reading skills that are important - it's critical thinking skills. It wasn't reading fairy tales as children that was important - the important part was developing critical thinking skills and learning important life lessons. When believers will believe sassy reports but not UFO reports, Chupacabra reports, Fairy reports, Dogmen reports or Skinwalker reports critical thinking should make you wonder why not? When folks will adamantly point to First Nation tribal lore as evidence of sassy but refuse to believe in Skinwalkers critical thinking should make you question the difference. When members here won't answer whether or not they would accept being banned from this forum solely on the basis of an anonymous claim of hoaxing or whether they would object to their child being suspended from school on the basis of an anonymous report critical thinking will provide the answer as to why they won't answer and why they don't truly believe anonymous reports. When a member who claims to have read more info about sassy than anyone else here lies and states that calling 911 won't get a response if sassy is involved critical thinking will provide an answer as to why they resorted to lying. Reading fairy tales and looking under the bed just leads to monsters if you don't apply critical thinking.