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The problem is you are offering a story. We are knee deep in stories. Bear in mind I'm not personally asking anyone to show me anything. I'm requesting a certain segment of the question who are claiming a kind of special dispensation by having to kind of contacts they claim have and take it out of story telling and rendering something solid to science since everything else has failed. Surely that can't be asking too much. Long post warning! Not sure exactly where to go with this because I'm not exactly sure in which camp I reside. I asked Cliff Barackman what his definition of a habituator was. He collected himself and said, "a long term witness." I was trying to figure out if that's what I was. There was a discussion about collecting evidence, and that's when I decided to get an audio recorder. I was witness to lots of stuff in 2013 that freaked me out and I came here to try and find answers. I got a big education about the science, the woo, the believers and the doubters. I learned that there are rival groups, and posers. I had just found out that there were sightings close to me, and that bigfoots lived in Ohio? What? Others saw what I saw nearby. Then I went into a tailspin, much of which is documented here and in the tar pit. Music was my only escape and I irritated a lot of people by posting links to the music that could say more than I could at the time. After feeling burned out here, I closed my circle, and have my "core" crew helping me and advising me. I have the most respected people that are so dear to me now. The Woo part tugged at my soul because I felt through my experiences that there was a gray area there with these beings, that was beyond science, but the science is what kept me grounded and sane. So I started collecting sound on my Sony px333 recorder. It was wild listening to our property at night. Then I heard some weird stuff. I was always happy when a knock hit and it got recorded. Usually, the knock didn't sound as well on tape as it did live. I live in a valley surrounded 360 by, hills in the biggest blocks of Holmes County, Ohio. I backed off of the forums here, as the obsession about what it was, took up too much of my life and I felt overexposed, by my own trust. It's always easy to hide anonymously behind a post, but I wasn't shy about saying who I was and where I lived. I just felt free to put it all out there. Well, you know what happens to people that say they have seen a bigfoot. I don't need the **** attention, I need the **** answers. I heard strange footfalls approach my recorder on the second night that I put it out. To me, the newbie second time recording sounded like BIG HEAVY SLOW DELIBERATE steps coming toward the recorder. I'm pretty sure that I posted that sound here. I was just learning how to download it and use Audacity. Freaked me out hearing it on tape! Being new, I had to guess that it was deer, but I think not, and believe that more now, especially having since recorded many deer moving through. The point is, that I have shared knocks, and sounds that I have recorded, and it doesn't make a hill of beans difference. Like an investigator friend just told me, "Everything you are trying to do, has already been done." I shared my recordings with the best in the business, and to go with the good science guys, it's interesting, but unless it's unlike anything that anyone has ever heard, it's just a knock or something else that may not be a bigfoot. The only thing that matters, is having fun and being out there when it happens, if it ever does. Shadowborn is right in my opinion. If the Locals are around, I believe that they are comfortable with those that they know. Interaction usually happens when it's just me out here late at night when they may be roaming by. My greatest wish in the world is that my husband experiences something, but he's on sensible successful people's hours, and he works as an independent contractor from home. He is very disciplined. I like to stay up all night and watch the sun rise, then sleep for two days. We do not have children, just us having fun now for 23 years married. For better or worse, the bigfoot stuff hit me, and us 21 years into our union. He has been AWESOME! He tells me that, "not everything is a bigfoot" and "did you see the creature hit the tree with the big log?" He keeps me grounded, but I'm like, uh uh, stuff is going on. In 2013 I woke him up every time something did. He's just happy that things have calmed down and I'm not talking about selling the house. We have met a lot of great new people, have them camp here, and go to Ohio conferences. Our lives have changed because of my sighting. We're still having fun though, and my husband is building us a camper with lots of windows and we're going roaming like we did in our 20s. FUN! No recorders, just fun. If big friends show up, then I'll know more than I do now. Each experience is another clue. Then again, it just makes you think about more questions and you think about how vast the universe is with all its energy. I'm just here, playing tunes and enjoying nature. My idea of what is nature, had expanded now. Going into my 4th season aware of it, I'm going old school with no recorders. Taking the pressure off and just having fun like we always used to do. If you have experienced possible bigfoot encounters, you never forget it. After that comes the, "could it have been...do I have the fever?" Then something else happens, and you have no doubt. But you go back and forth a million times. It's like an onion. The more answers you look for, only result in more questions. I had to tune out a lot of noise, and listen to my own voice. I'm not on facebook, gave up Twitter, and haven't been back to the BFF for some time. The love and friendship and family that surrounded me, were, and are, awesome. I have learned a lot. I am grateful for a lot, most especially their slack. Thank you to the BFF for helping start this journey. Your kindness, frankness, and ideas / theories were so helpful. I want to help anyone that needs it or wants to know, if I can. Here's the deal. People that have stuff happening at home, on their property, learn to close it down, and only share things with the trusted and experienced. How can you say that anyone has had my experience? I have no idea what someone else is experiencing on their property. How can that possibly be the same? Maybe we could compare notes and could find similarities. That's always cool. It's always cool to talk to someone that has had similar experiences. I am no investigator. I'll listen and for me, I'll know it's true by the way they react and the look in their eyes. "Doctor calls me crazy, some says I am, some says I ain't." New Minglewood Blues, Grateful Dead (sorry couldn't resist, timing was perfect) But how can you prove any of it? Except for Roger and Bob, and the great prints, it's a hard thing to do for a newbie in her back yard. How can I document what has changed here? "It goes to show, that you never know." Recently, I was grateful to sit next to Thom Powell at a special dinner. He filled in, and confirmed for me, a line of thinking that I had been pondering. Disclaimer, I don't even go down the UFO path because I can't handle that, I have enough to think about with bf. I don't know what's going on underground. Just focused on what is here. I think Thom is on to the idea that they have telepathy. I have had some strange things that happened, that could be attributed to that. I look at it from a logical, scientific point of view from my German half, then the Irish half takes over, and I feel it in my gut. Thom is over trying to record it. He's moving on to the next thought about what they are and how they operate. I agree with him. We know they're there, just why do they do what they do? Whatever, it's a lot to explain to people that want evidence. I tried for over a year to record. I wanted that evidence. I chased it. I wanted everyone to hear and experience what I had in 2013. I begged people to camp out here when it was going on. People I know and love thought at the time that I had lost my mind one day on a back road May 14, 2013. Maybe I did lose my mind that day, and everything else that has happened since, has been a dream or whatever. And you want people like me, if I am in fact a habituator - not sure that I am, to tell you what I think about stuff and not expect me to be shy about getting shot down? At least in the tar pit I can swear for intensity. It's like training a puppy to come, then swatting it with a newspaper that he didn't come sooner. Good dog, whack. I don't know what is / was going on. I have my ideas. Everything dropped off here for activity in 2014 and 15 with a few exceptions. I wanted it to go away. Someone wise here on the BFF told me that I should speak to them, make my stand, because I was telling my husband for two weeks that we have to sell the house because it's not fun here anymore. I told "them" to stop scaring me, and that the word here was "Peace." They live as they wish, and so will we, with mutual respect. Maybe it is just what I needed to do for my own piece in quiet hours. "I'll do what I have to do to stay here in Johnny's Garden." And "Ill listen to my singing call" "And tell my brothers what I saw" Stephen Stills That seemed to work and everything died down. It slowed down so much that after I got over the stress of it all, was happy for the peace, I got thinking about it with some distance. There's a lot to think about. We have been here for 17 years, moved here from Cleveland. Our house is very old. The Indian artifacts found on this property and the neighbors, are many. We just learned from a reliable local source, that "The Knoll" less than a mile from here may be an Indian burial mound. Some educated people are interested in it. So we're just here now, where many others were before us. Coming from the city, we were at peace here, such a good feeling here, and it is our property, 18 acres, surrounded by hundreds and hundreds. My foolishness thinking that I owned this and and it was ours, came crashing down when I found that the Locals were here many many years before us. Let it be. No pressure. No recorders. A leap of faith. With risks. Not trying to prove it. Just want to live in peace. So I don't record the knock and send it to someone. Been there, done that. Got some good stuff though, but things have been quiet. I'm "Just moving right along" as Michael Stanley sings. What else is there? I think I can find it without recorders. I was getting into a repeating loop with the recordings. It was going nowhere. Talking about this stuff with anyone other than trusted people, can sometimes be a drag. What good comes from it? You don't want people to think that your nuts, or fantasizing about something, or needing attention, or having a mid-life crisis. I have a wonderful husband and great great support group of friends and investigators. I love them. I loved my life before bigfoot showed up. Now that I have had some distance, I do miss the action, as it were. I gave up the recorder this past week, and heard a power knock that night from an area where I hadn't heard a **** thing in 2015. It would have recorded. I may have made a mistake, or I may have made the connection. I have heard enough knocks here to feel VERY confident about that one. I was so excited for days, still am. I think that's the way to go. Just let it flow, no recordings, no pressure, be cool, don't be stupid, and if they're around, and you are interesting enough, and you have an open mind, and you are in a peaceful state, without a lot of clutter in your head, and no distractions...maybe you will hear or experience something. One thing I can say for sure, is when you least expect it! Maybe it's just best that I chill out, and listen, and enjoy like we always used to do, before all this happened. That's where I I have learned what is helpful in this situation, and what is not. I'm like Star Trek's VGer. I require the information. If I can pass some along too, then it works. You have to be smart about it. Maybe this is dumb telling you all this, but hey, you helped me, and eventually checked out the BFF, and saw this question. So I am unloading a couple years in one long post. There are good people involved with this phenomenon for reasons other than promoting true research and good theory. I have found it useful to stick with my core of experts who know me, and welcome me to speak freely. They give me a lot of great perspectives and approaches. Not recording is of concern to two of my core investigators, and welcome to two others. The unanimous thought is that I should do what feels right for me. I trust my gut. I test high for pattern recognition. As I approach season #4 of SSQ, thinking about where I'm at with it. It's going to be with no recorders, just free, like it has been for hundreds and thousands of years in this valley. I'm just a witness to it for our little time here. Saying all that, to get to your point about sharing things, I want to give back to this community that helped me when I was just learning about things. I agreed to help on a couple of media projects as a favor to the investigators who helped me. It takes guts to put the story out there, and if it wasn't for the people near here that posted their account on BFRO, and those investigators who answered my call, I would have still been wondering what the I saw that day. Sorry if this sounds self serving, all I can say is how it was / is for me. What other people experience, or believe, is theirs. This is mine. There is a lot of Idiot Wind out there, so I don't blame you for thinking whatever you think. There is no wrong answer except for hoaxers and lairs. Their idiot wind, as Bob Dylan sings, messes a lot of stuff up. Let me be one to buck the perception that habituators don't share, (yeah I didn't do that on this post). I would love to get answers, if you have a thought about it. I'll tell you what I know, if you tell me what you know. Together we should be able to figure something out, no? To move the ball forward, I will offer this theory I am embracing for the 2016 season, which is leaving the recorder behind. I'm taking pressure off the whole place. That's how it was when it all started. I'm just going to enjoy our place and not worry about the Boogie Man. Easier said than done. That first night without recorders, guess what happened? YEP, a power knock from the back field. I hadn't heard anything there at all in 2015. Coincidence or confirmation? Just back off and let it happen. In my opinion, if you try and play games with it, you will come up short. I also am entertaining the telepathy idea. See Minerva Monsters film. One of the witnesses had an interesting experience throwing a ball back and forth. I have had my own experiences. Maybe it can be explained like your dog that watches you and "knows" what you are thinking? The whole bigfoot thing is one big freaky jumbled up mess. Science is the foundation. There is a gray area after the visible science rainbow fades, where the unseen part is. That's what I want to figure out now. How does that all work. I have a clue, and an idea. That's what I'm going after this season. It doesn't involve recording them. I think it's within. It's personal to every person. No two experiences are alike. Hanging out with people that are interested, or who have had similar experiences, is very important to me now. Well, maybe not as important as it used to be since I closed it in with my core trusted close people. Where I am at this season, is that I know it exists, I'm past that. I'm past trying to catch it on tape. I want to know about the gray line that starts where science stops. I think there is more research to be done there. No recorders this year. Im a little naked and vulnerable, worried that my dream of the big howl coming back is going to happen and I don't have it on tape. Maybe it wouldn't come if there was a recorder going? It just doesn't matter. I'm just doing what I always used to do before, and at the time when the Locals showed up. When I set out the recorder, and I told them to chill out, it all went away. I'm just going back to what itway was like simply. I'm not going to worry about them, and if they come around when it's convenient and throw a knock, for me or for their buddies, I'll be here to hear it...just like I heard Tuesday morning when I cooked up this "no plan" plan. It's like chasing the Jack of Hearts on Highway 66. Like being "stuck inside of Mobile with the Memphis blues again." You could chase your tail and like Thom Powell told me that he knew someone that showed him 70+ pictures of stick structures. You can go around and around and around. That's why I liked this thread. If the habs have a clue, let's hear it! George Harrison sang, "And if you don't know where you're going, Any oad will take you there. It's a game, sometimes you're cool, sometimes you're lame. Oowee, just don't win, it's so far out, the way out, is in. Bow to God and call Him Sir, but if you don't know where you're going...any road will take you there." I am lucky that I have you all on BFF. After texting the crap out of my investigator's phone with questions, I found the BFF. It was a lifesaver for me. WOW. I soaked it all up at once, at the same time when stuff was happening here in in 2013, and I had to work myself up for two hours just to take the trash cans out that are 100 feet from our house. I laugh about that now, but it was real to me then. I didn't want to step foot off my porch, even with beer encouragement. That's no way to live. It had to stop. I needed to get a grip on the situation. It's way calmer now. I wonder where it all went. When I hear a rare knock it's a big deal. It's like seeing a tornado. You want to see it in it's glory, but don't want to see it's destruction up close. Be careful what you wish for. Sorry for the long post. I hope I can answer some questions about why people keep quiet, but I have always been enthusiastic about helping others that have helped me...and maybe together, we can figure some of this stuff out. Until then, I'll just be enjoying nature in the Mohican Valley, Ohio and happy that I have the time to stay up until the sun rises. It's so beautiful here. Thank you all. Hammer Just another tricky day - The Who ANyPxKqv8eKk_FTdx5kaq7HEPmBOHdoZBWctRy7lveZapEAxg1uu5n26JZaE5IVisKT3ViNLon9S1iuXiSwJH9z8JBfrp7jV9w

Hair, bone and scat in the possession of a lay person would, in no way, be "true conclusive evidence" of BF. Dang few people have the money to pay for DNA tests. And who could be trusted to do such tests?

Incorrigible 1, you say tens of thousands of reports by tens of thousands of different witnesses amounts to a hill of beans, a phrase that means amounts to nothing. That's what I meant by unhealthy skepticism. The sheer volume of reports, many by credible people such as those in law enforcement, should give pause to any kind of reasonable skeptic.

Ok, so the skeptics are chomping at the bit to evaluate our evidence. What do we offer up as "good" evidence. Not proof mind you, but evidence. Tracks, film, audio, reports, etc. And this includes all bipedal cryptid hominids in the world. From Sasquatch to Yowie to Almasty. List your top three pieces of evidence you like and write a short description why. I'll start... 1- The Hobbit Science was knocked on their kester with this one. Proving ancient myths of little people correct, skeletal remains were discovered on the island of Flores that were only 10,000 years old. At first there was a big brewhau as to what the bones were? Sickly dwarf humans? Or something more archaic. The question was answered.....it was something more archaic, Homo Erectus or below, and that debate continues. 2- The PGF Ya, its controversial....sometimes I think we need to rename the BFF the PGFF. Despite the debate that boils to this day? No one has found the zipper, no one has offered up the suit. And unlike most film sites this film site was known, measured and photographed along with corresponding trackway after the film was shot. Add Bill Munns analysis which supports the hypothesis of a real animal with no real scientific rebuttal. I still like it. 3- Big Tree Walker's Bone Analysis I'll be honest here I didnt think much of this when it first came out. But short of direct proof this is pretty cool stuff. I've seen some stuff there that I have not seen before. And actually got to participate in the study by submitting a femur bone of my own that had been cracked open and the bone marrow removed. I think its cool.

Maybe you should do it since no one else is up to spec.

Ok. Getting grants is a great idea. But just for discussion let’s see what it takes to get one. I will go down the list to get one of those primate grants. Eligibility - graduate students, qualified conservationists and primatologists . Selection criteria - All appropriate projects will be considered, but the regions of current interest are Asia and West Africa. Abstract – 1) Most people could come up with an acceptable proposal. 2) You have to present prior research. Remember this needs to be recognized as actual research. 3) Describe how you will prevent disease transmission. If you are planning on any kind of baiting this would have to be addressed. 4) Methods. If your goal is to use game cams and any of the reviewers know the history of their use in this field; you better be thinking out of the box on explaining your methods on this one. 5) Dissemination of results. Will you be up to the task of writing and publishing a paper for peer review? 6) Timetable. This might be hard to determine not knowing what your results are going to be. 7) Budget. Please note priority is given to proposals with matching grants. Note here that you are going to have to do this same procedure to procure any other grants. 8 ) Bibliography. I’m just curious what you are going to use for this. Book references, anecdotal reports, prior research (if any can be found)? 9) C.V.'s of principal personnel. Consider that they are going to be looking at your credentials; same as happens here constantly on the forums. 10) Copies of permissions from appropriate governmental agencies. Maybe you can get them, but maybe not, especially if they know why you want it. 11) Completed and signed institution agreement form. This amounts to being connected to an institution. 12) Names and addresses of 3 people qualified to review your proposal. As I said, for discussion. Something else to consider is if your goal is to collect and test DNA samples you could easily blow the whole amount of $2500 to $5000 in just one test. If those sums would even cover the amount of testing required. Actually this grant program is a lot simpler than many I have seen.

Actually, that's Rick Nelson.

Hey Hammer! It's good to see you here again. I wish I could give you 100 pluses on that post. It says it all! I came to the first BFF like you came to this one, looking for answers. I had already started the "researcher thing" & found that it wasn't helping either of us much. After about 10 posts, never admitting that I had seen BF or that they were here, I quickly learned that it was not the place to find many answers. The only people that were even civil, were banned before I could learn much from them. But both of them had some answers that I value to this day, & have seen proven over & over. If their names are mentioned now, it arouses jeers & claims of hoaxing, but they knew what they were talking about. So, with them no longer there, I went away & found people that were experiencing what I was, & not trying to prove anything or make money or names for themselves. Together, we experienced bigfoot face to face & learned, without fear of being ridiculed. Our lives were changed forever. Fast forward a few years. The old BFF (mercifully) imploded & a "New & (hopefully improved) BFF" was started. After lurking for a couple of weeks, it seemed to be not quite so hostile, so I joined. This time, with a chip on my shoulder & a resolve to not be run off or take any bullying from "non believers" (who obviously didn't have a clue anyway.) I had information that came from daily living, surrounded by big hairy, enigmatic, mysterious, sometimes funny, sometimes scary people. Maybe I didn't see everything the way someone else would have seen the same things, but it was real & honest knowledge & was worth sharing with whoever had a desire for it. So I came back willing to share whatever evidence I had collected, & talk honestly about the things that I had observed & experienced, but it was mostly met with disbelief & sarcasm. That made the chip get bigger & the desire to share shrink considerably, but soon, people started to PM, saying "I saw that same thing! I need to talk about it." Some of them had explanations for things that I didn't understand & we helped each other. There was no sarcasm or ridicule. Just a burning desire to talk about what was going on around us without being laughed at. And there you have your answer, Crow, as to why one such habituator "won't come forward & lend a hand". I have shared most of the evidence I have collected including DNA. There's more DNA evidence in the freezer, but I don't care what it would show & nobody else seems to either. Most of the best audio I have collected is on Soundcloud (link in signature) for anybody that is interested. Like Hammer, I don't bother to try for "proof" anymore. And also like her, here is a line from a song that fits my philosophy: "But it's all right now, I learned my lesson well, You see, you can't please everyone, so you got to please yourself." (John Fogerty)

^^^ Make your own decision if the Yerkes Primate Center would be a good place that would help you. Atlanta — Following reports that a rhesus macaque monkey escaped from Emory University's Yerkes National Primate Research Center on June 15—and has yet to be recaptured—PETA is calling on the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) to investigate the laboratory for possible violations of the federal Animal Welfare Act (AWA). In a formal complaint filed this morning, PETA asserts that the escape indicates that the federally funded facility may have violated several provisions of the AWA, including failure to ensure that personnel are qualified to perform their duties, failure to adequately supervise employees, and failure to ensure that primary enclosures securely contain nonhuman primates. "These intelligent, sensitive animals don't deserve the loneliness and trauma of life in a laboratory," says PETA Vice President of Laboratory Investigations Kathy Guillermo. "At the very least, Yerkes should adhere to the minimal standards put forth by the only federal law that provides any protection, the Animal Welfare Act." Yerkes has previously been cited for violating several provisions of the AWA. Last May, USDA inspectors cited Yerkes for a violation of the AWA in response to an incident in which a cage housing three primates was mistakenly placed in a cage washer. Yerkes was charged with three additional violations in the same month. And in 2007, Yerkes was assessed a $15,000 penalty for even more violations. Yerkes has drawn international criticism from leading primatologists, including Jane Goodall, for using more than 4,000 monkeys and apes in invasive and deadly experiments. Monkeys at Yerkes are torn away from their mothers, isolated in small cages, and subjected to experiments in which they are infected with deadly diseases, immobilized in restraint devices, and forcibly addicted to drugs. Yerkes is also one of the very few facilities in the world that still uses humans' evolutionary cousins—chimpanzees—in harmful experiments. Read more: http://www.cbs46.com/story/14960350/monkey-missing-from-yerkes-national-primate-research-center#ixzz42njEwWdf Someone should ask Jane Goodall The hypothetical question if she were to get evidence of a Sasquatch who would she trust to analyze it?

As a hunter, I've noticed that my "desire" to kill has been reduced from when I was younger. I still love hunting but the killing portion of the hunt has lost its appeal. In my younger days I'd pull the trigger without a second thought. I guess "blood lust" is a younger persons game. I still hunt and occasionally will kill an animal but I'm very selective about what I kill. I've thought about what I would do if I ever saw a Sasquatch and I was armed with enough gun to kill one. If I had enough gun, if I had enough people with me, also armed, and I had the ability to take the body, I would consider it. However, by myself, in deep cover, I'd never do it. I think most hunters would consider their personal safety as well as the ethics of killing something they can't identify. It's not easy to kill anything indiscriminately and much less an animal that looks so much like us.

Well, it's hard for me to think of three things, but then, I'm a skeptic, I don't believe nor disbelieve. So here are three things that make me open to the possibility of BF. 1. Tirademan's archives. They show BF or Wildmen are not a recent phenomenon. 2. The relic hominid theory. We know there were many branches in the hominid family tree. 3. A few strange personal experiences and stories told by my family who have lived a very rural lifestyle. I can come up with reasonable and logical explanations for each one, and none of these experiences or stories were in any way thought to be BF related when they happened, but thinking about them after learning more, I often wonder.

When are our gun laws going to be tightened? The 2nd amendment is over 200 years old, so not soon. My opinion is that most people are not pro kill. Just because they own guns or shoot deer does not mean they are shooting Bigfoot.