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Not everyone is motivated the same. Opportunity, you say? Opportunity for what? Exploitation? Some of those habituators know more about the BF than I do. I have to give their views on what's in the BF's best interest more credence than the views of a person who is motivated by personal gain whether that be fame or fortune especially when that's precisely what the habituator choose to forego. Some things in this world should not be for sale. Right and wrong is not based on cash flow. MIB

Maybe you should do it since no one else is up to spec.

Whatever you say sir. I do not argue with my superiors.

Claiming to be a habituator without any proof is the lowest of the low in my book. If a bigfoot family is living in your backyard? You should have ample ample evidence in the form of hair, saliva or scat. Not to mention incredible film footage that would surely make some of us stand up and take notice. All we ever get are excuses. Either the person has some beef with science or the forest people have let them know they dont want to be documented. Either way it is a claim without proof. I suggest if your a habber with bigfeets living in your backyard and they told you they dont want to be documented? Probably best to keep the secret to yourself.......just sayin. (And no I do not think this is truly happening) I think Crow is just trying to drag the community through the mud here. But what evidence we do have did not come from habbers. It came from field researchers pounding the bush, and responding to reports. Which I think is a more plausible scenario as to why we do not have hard evidence(few animals and lots of forest) Than families of bigfeets hiding out at "nice people" home steads, and the evidence is just 86'd.

Lets examine just for a moment the purported behavior patterns of these critters. They're masters at hiding, They're masters at getting around at night. They don't leave a lot of sign. They seem to have a fair degree of intelligence. The appear to be tactically sound. Now. A bunch of academia is going to go into the forests, mountains, and woodlands, and make discoveries? Not in this universe. Grants or no grants.

I have a problem with some of the terminology used. I have preconceptions of what I would consider a researcher from my early years in school, and then honed over decades. What, exactly is a "researcher?" Could a "hunter" be a researcher, or just an interested hunter? If some go on extended recons in the field, is that a researcher? If some also do a lot of reading and analyzing narratives, does that also contribute to the title of researcher? So. What is a bigfoot researcher? I also have a problem with the term, Habituator. A long-term witness? How long? What's the criteria to be a "habituator?" How long is a long term witness? How many events of interaction, and what level of interaction or closeness are required to cross into the habituator realm? I have a problem understanding exactly what is to be considered "evidence?" We hang people in this country based on eyewitness evidence. So why are eyewitnesses automatically discounted in the field of large relict species? Observation is 99% of science. What constitutes replication of experimentation? Does that too, also have to be observed? I no longer seem to have an understanding of what "science" is, as I've seen applications here that I was taught were NOT science. Duplication of an experiment, or duplicate observation is supposed to be at least tried before dismissal. Otherwise, science could not advance, and everything would be a postulation. For someone to dismiss observations without them getting off their sorry ***es and doing their own work, is not skepticism - it's a retarded laziness. When some observers see something at a distance, it's entirely reasonable to allow for the possibility of mis-identification. But to dismiss narratives from every historical period, from almost every populated area of earth, from almost every culture on earth, is to be one lazy, disingenuous, willfully contrary, narrow-minded, inexperienced, incapable human imposter. It's almost like they're jealous that others have either put in the work and have seen these critters, or that some of us, who just happened to be doing work in a very remote area just ran into one. But that's not our fault. Maybe the fact that you haven't either seen one, or interacted to some degree with one or more, maybe it's your fault. Others who haven't had personal sightings, but through the preponderance of evidence allow for the existence of these critters - yours is not so much a matter of faith - but a matter of acknowledgement. I've never seen the Eiffel Tower. I'm pretty sure it's there, but I'd be one simple-minded jacka** if I denied its existence until someone either brought it into my range of vision, or somehow, by accident - I actually saw it myself - from where I'm sitting. I have it on good report that there were two huge Twin Towers in New York. They're not there now, so I can't personally verify that they existed. So what stance do I take? Deny they existed? Deny the photographic evidence? Deny the thousands of narratives that they existed? Just how dumb would that be?

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-29665829 This: There were even questions about whether the Hobbit, named Homo floresiensis, still existed somewhere on the island. Perhaps there were other species of humans in other very remote parts of the world yet to be discovered? The notion that our species, Homo sapiens, was the only species of human on the planet was for the first time in thousands of years in doubt. Perhaps tales of yetis, giants and leprechauns have a basis from our distant evolutionary past. As it turned out no more fossilised remains of the Hobbit have been unearthed since then, let alone the discovery of creatures from folklore. But those involved in the field are convinced that much more is yet to come, according to Prof Roberts. And this: The Hobbit's existence on Flores is still a complete mystery. How did it get there? Flores is east of the so-called Wallace Line which demarcates islands that have rarely - if ever - been connected via land bridges to the Asian mainland. So did this early, very primitive species of human have the wherewithal to build boats and sail across the sea? ----------- Evidently they did use boats as geologists tell us there was simply no other way to have gotten to the island. And how bout those corny Professors who are now looking behind the bushes for living Hobbits on Flores Island???? If they used boats? Where else could they have gone in Micronesia? With the discovery of the hobbit, cryptid ape men have taken on a whole new life....and it really doesnt matter if Crowlogic claims it doesnt count because if does count. How can it not count when you have bones of a creature with a brain case the size of a chimpanzee coexisting with humans until verifiably 10,000 years ago???? And it could very well still be out there!? That is HUGE!

Heh heh ... I used to tell my daughter there really are monsters under the bed, that's why I slept on my mattress on the floor: it meant the monsters had to be veeeerrrryyyy small. I'm not so sure I was joking. Some, yet some-not. Science and intuition are not opposites, they're complements. Same as science and religion. The dichotomy is artificial. Science, by itself, does nothing. No impetus, no motion. Curiosity is based in intuition. You have to "feel" the presence of a question, "feel" the possibility of something to study first, then drag out science and apply it. Intuition and non-science provide the materials for science to operate on. They complement each other. Neither works at all well alone. I solve puzzles of various sorts. Neurotically so perhaps. I "feel" connections in large data sets, trends, commonalities. I form ideas about what they might be. It's not 'til those intuitive things are complete that I can begin to apply science to the details. They HAVE to work together. Have to. MIB

How can you argue when you know nothing about what the forum staff does? The bottom line is that I won't stand such assertions of unfair treatment of our members by the staff. By the way, if we were dead set against habbers and their claims, why is there a user-friendly subforum where habbers are free to discuss their supposed daily interactions with the forest people? You've made some pretty bizarre claims in that thread, yet you've not been banned, or even threatened with such. This fact alone shows that your claims of malfeasance are without merit.

A big thumbs down on that one... This one's real cute...

Even if you believe in Bigfoot or sasquatch or whatever, you must realise that a negative can't be proven. I would like nothing better than to be wholly convinced (by real, tangible evidence) that sasquatch exists but it does rest upon the proponents to provide evidence of what they propose not the other way round. see Dawkins: Flying Spaghetti monster For some people the evidence currently provided is sufficient, some people claim to have direct experience and know, but for most people, the evidence currently provided simply isn't conclusive enough to be certain.

Nightwalker its posts like your and other so called skeptics is the reason that evidence isn't put forward on this forum. When ever evidence is put up, its you armchair guys that no very little about the subject and only know what other skeptics have previosly typed and go get on the band wagon It does get a little tiresome, i certainly won't bother to post any evidence in this forum

Hello All, This is the stuff that causes me to stall and I'm not even a scientist. And one wonders why the Bigfoot subject struggles. Let's talk Bigfoot podcast June 5, 2008: Listen to the 07:00-08:20 minute segment: https://www.podcastchart.com/podcasts/lets-talk-bigfoot/episodes/don-keating-interview Sasquatch Watch Radio podcast Sept. 15, 2008: Listen to the 40:20-41:35 minute segment: http://www.viaway.com/view/5576182/sasquatch-watch-radio-guest-is-don-keating-of-ohio-sep-162008 Now look at this calender for the Moon phase on the night of Don Keating's Sept. 15, 1985 "encounter": And even after all this I ran across this little tidbit: https://twitter.com/cliffbarackman/status/557199660767801344 I'm done with all this junk. And BTW Mr. Keaating's little "indiscretion" shall we say was exposed back in 2010! So why did some of the top people in the Bigfoot public eye never mention it? What? Nobody KNEW about it??! Yep. Done....

Incorrigible 1, you say tens of thousands of reports by tens of thousands of different witnesses amounts to a hill of beans, a phrase that means amounts to nothing. That's what I meant by unhealthy skepticism. The sheer volume of reports, many by credible people such as those in law enforcement, should give pause to any kind of reasonable skeptic.

I'd say Hammer has offered a hand, working with the BFRO and also a long thread in the premium section where she has shared her experiences. I'll give her credit, she doesn't try to present it as proof, more of a question about what she has experienced. She did so for a long time, despite a couple of people being jerks. She's always seemed pretty reasonable. Good to see you back around Hammer.

Hey Hammer! It's good to see you here again. I wish I could give you 100 pluses on that post. It says it all! I came to the first BFF like you came to this one, looking for answers. I had already started the "researcher thing" & found that it wasn't helping either of us much. After about 10 posts, never admitting that I had seen BF or that they were here, I quickly learned that it was not the place to find many answers. The only people that were even civil, were banned before I could learn much from them. But both of them had some answers that I value to this day, & have seen proven over & over. If their names are mentioned now, it arouses jeers & claims of hoaxing, but they knew what they were talking about. So, with them no longer there, I went away & found people that were experiencing what I was, & not trying to prove anything or make money or names for themselves. Together, we experienced bigfoot face to face & learned, without fear of being ridiculed. Our lives were changed forever. Fast forward a few years. The old BFF (mercifully) imploded & a "New & (hopefully improved) BFF" was started. After lurking for a couple of weeks, it seemed to be not quite so hostile, so I joined. This time, with a chip on my shoulder & a resolve to not be run off or take any bullying from "non believers" (who obviously didn't have a clue anyway.) I had information that came from daily living, surrounded by big hairy, enigmatic, mysterious, sometimes funny, sometimes scary people. Maybe I didn't see everything the way someone else would have seen the same things, but it was real & honest knowledge & was worth sharing with whoever had a desire for it. So I came back willing to share whatever evidence I had collected, & talk honestly about the things that I had observed & experienced, but it was mostly met with disbelief & sarcasm. That made the chip get bigger & the desire to share shrink considerably, but soon, people started to PM, saying "I saw that same thing! I need to talk about it." Some of them had explanations for things that I didn't understand & we helped each other. There was no sarcasm or ridicule. Just a burning desire to talk about what was going on around us without being laughed at. And there you have your answer, Crow, as to why one such habituator "won't come forward & lend a hand". I have shared most of the evidence I have collected including DNA. There's more DNA evidence in the freezer, but I don't care what it would show & nobody else seems to either. Most of the best audio I have collected is on Soundcloud (link in signature) for anybody that is interested. Like Hammer, I don't bother to try for "proof" anymore. And also like her, here is a line from a song that fits my philosophy: "But it's all right now, I learned my lesson well, You see, you can't please everyone, so you got to please yourself." (John Fogerty)

The problem is you are offering a story. We are knee deep in stories. Bear in mind I'm not personally asking anyone to show me anything. I'm requesting a certain segment of the question who are claiming a kind of special dispensation by having to kind of contacts they claim have and take it out of story telling and rendering something solid to science since everything else has failed. Surely that can't be asking too much. Long post warning! Not sure exactly where to go with this because I'm not exactly sure in which camp I reside. I asked Cliff Barackman what his definition of a habituator was. He collected himself and said, "a long term witness." I was trying to figure out if that's what I was. There was a discussion about collecting evidence, and that's when I decided to get an audio recorder. I was witness to lots of stuff in 2013 that freaked me out and I came here to try and find answers. I got a big education about the science, the woo, the believers and the doubters. I learned that there are rival groups, and posers. I had just found out that there were sightings close to me, and that bigfoots lived in Ohio? What? Others saw what I saw nearby. Then I went into a tailspin, much of which is documented here and in the tar pit. Music was my only escape and I irritated a lot of people by posting links to the music that could say more than I could at the time. After feeling burned out here, I closed my circle, and have my "core" crew helping me and advising me. I have the most respected people that are so dear to me now. The Woo part tugged at my soul because I felt through my experiences that there was a gray area there with these beings, that was beyond science, but the science is what kept me grounded and sane. So I started collecting sound on my Sony px333 recorder. It was wild listening to our property at night. Then I heard some weird stuff. I was always happy when a knock hit and it got recorded. Usually, the knock didn't sound as well on tape as it did live. I live in a valley surrounded 360 by, hills in the biggest blocks of Holmes County, Ohio. I backed off of the forums here, as the obsession about what it was, took up too much of my life and I felt overexposed, by my own trust. It's always easy to hide anonymously behind a post, but I wasn't shy about saying who I was and where I lived. I just felt free to put it all out there. Well, you know what happens to people that say they have seen a bigfoot. I don't need the **** attention, I need the **** answers. I heard strange footfalls approach my recorder on the second night that I put it out. To me, the newbie second time recording sounded like BIG HEAVY SLOW DELIBERATE steps coming toward the recorder. I'm pretty sure that I posted that sound here. I was just learning how to download it and use Audacity. Freaked me out hearing it on tape! Being new, I had to guess that it was deer, but I think not, and believe that more now, especially having since recorded many deer moving through. The point is, that I have shared knocks, and sounds that I have recorded, and it doesn't make a hill of beans difference. Like an investigator friend just told me, "Everything you are trying to do, has already been done." I shared my recordings with the best in the business, and to go with the good science guys, it's interesting, but unless it's unlike anything that anyone has ever heard, it's just a knock or something else that may not be a bigfoot. The only thing that matters, is having fun and being out there when it happens, if it ever does. Shadowborn is right in my opinion. If the Locals are around, I believe that they are comfortable with those that they know. Interaction usually happens when it's just me out here late at night when they may be roaming by. My greatest wish in the world is that my husband experiences something, but he's on sensible successful people's hours, and he works as an independent contractor from home. He is very disciplined. I like to stay up all night and watch the sun rise, then sleep for two days. We do not have children, just us having fun now for 23 years married. For better or worse, the bigfoot stuff hit me, and us 21 years into our union. He has been AWESOME! He tells me that, "not everything is a bigfoot" and "did you see the creature hit the tree with the big log?" He keeps me grounded, but I'm like, uh uh, stuff is going on. In 2013 I woke him up every time something did. He's just happy that things have calmed down and I'm not talking about selling the house. We have met a lot of great new people, have them camp here, and go to Ohio conferences. Our lives have changed because of my sighting. We're still having fun though, and my husband is building us a camper with lots of windows and we're going roaming like we did in our 20s. FUN! No recorders, just fun. If big friends show up, then I'll know more than I do now. Each experience is another clue. Then again, it just makes you think about more questions and you think about how vast the universe is with all its energy. I'm just here, playing tunes and enjoying nature. My idea of what is nature, had expanded now. Going into my 4th season aware of it, I'm going old school with no recorders. Taking the pressure off and just having fun like we always used to do. If you have experienced possible bigfoot encounters, you never forget it. After that comes the, "could it have been...do I have the fever?" Then something else happens, and you have no doubt. But you go back and forth a million times. It's like an onion. The more answers you look for, only result in more questions. I had to tune out a lot of noise, and listen to my own voice. I'm not on facebook, gave up Twitter, and haven't been back to the BFF for some time. The love and friendship and family that surrounded me, were, and are, awesome. I have learned a lot. I am grateful for a lot, most especially their slack. Thank you to the BFF for helping start this journey. Your kindness, frankness, and ideas / theories were so helpful. I want to help anyone that needs it or wants to know, if I can. Here's the deal. People that have stuff happening at home, on their property, learn to close it down, and only share things with the trusted and experienced. How can you say that anyone has had my experience? I have no idea what someone else is experiencing on their property. How can that possibly be the same? Maybe we could compare notes and could find similarities. That's always cool. It's always cool to talk to someone that has had similar experiences. I am no investigator. I'll listen and for me, I'll know it's true by the way they react and the look in their eyes. "Doctor calls me crazy, some says I am, some says I ain't." New Minglewood Blues, Grateful Dead (sorry couldn't resist, timing was perfect) But how can you prove any of it? Except for Roger and Bob, and the great prints, it's a hard thing to do for a newbie in her back yard. How can I document what has changed here? "It goes to show, that you never know." Recently, I was grateful to sit next to Thom Powell at a special dinner. He filled in, and confirmed for me, a line of thinking that I had been pondering. Disclaimer, I don't even go down the UFO path because I can't handle that, I have enough to think about with bf. I don't know what's going on underground. Just focused on what is here. I think Thom is on to the idea that they have telepathy. I have had some strange things that happened, that could be attributed to that. I look at it from a logical, scientific point of view from my German half, then the Irish half takes over, and I feel it in my gut. Thom is over trying to record it. He's moving on to the next thought about what they are and how they operate. I agree with him. We know they're there, just why do they do what they do? Whatever, it's a lot to explain to people that want evidence. I tried for over a year to record. I wanted that evidence. I chased it. I wanted everyone to hear and experience what I had in 2013. I begged people to camp out here when it was going on. People I know and love thought at the time that I had lost my mind one day on a back road May 14, 2013. Maybe I did lose my mind that day, and everything else that has happened since, has been a dream or whatever. And you want people like me, if I am in fact a habituator - not sure that I am, to tell you what I think about stuff and not expect me to be shy about getting shot down? At least in the tar pit I can swear for intensity. It's like training a puppy to come, then swatting it with a newspaper that he didn't come sooner. Good dog, whack. I don't know what is / was going on. I have my ideas. Everything dropped off here for activity in 2014 and 15 with a few exceptions. I wanted it to go away. Someone wise here on the BFF told me that I should speak to them, make my stand, because I was telling my husband for two weeks that we have to sell the house because it's not fun here anymore. I told "them" to stop scaring me, and that the word here was "Peace." They live as they wish, and so will we, with mutual respect. Maybe it is just what I needed to do for my own piece in quiet hours. "I'll do what I have to do to stay here in Johnny's Garden." And "Ill listen to my singing call" "And tell my brothers what I saw" Stephen Stills That seemed to work and everything died down. It slowed down so much that after I got over the stress of it all, was happy for the peace, I got thinking about it with some distance. There's a lot to think about. We have been here for 17 years, moved here from Cleveland. Our house is very old. The Indian artifacts found on this property and the neighbors, are many. We just learned from a reliable local source, that "The Knoll" less than a mile from here may be an Indian burial mound. Some educated people are interested in it. So we're just here now, where many others were before us. Coming from the city, we were at peace here, such a good feeling here, and it is our property, 18 acres, surrounded by hundreds and hundreds. My foolishness thinking that I owned this and and it was ours, came crashing down when I found that the Locals were here many many years before us. Let it be. No pressure. No recorders. A leap of faith. With risks. Not trying to prove it. Just want to live in peace. So I don't record the knock and send it to someone. Been there, done that. Got some good stuff though, but things have been quiet. I'm "Just moving right along" as Michael Stanley sings. What else is there? I think I can find it without recorders. I was getting into a repeating loop with the recordings. It was going nowhere. Talking about this stuff with anyone other than trusted people, can sometimes be a drag. What good comes from it? You don't want people to think that your nuts, or fantasizing about something, or needing attention, or having a mid-life crisis. I have a wonderful husband and great great support group of friends and investigators. I love them. I loved my life before bigfoot showed up. Now that I have had some distance, I do miss the action, as it were. I gave up the recorder this past week, and heard a power knock that night from an area where I hadn't heard a **** thing in 2015. It would have recorded. I may have made a mistake, or I may have made the connection. I have heard enough knocks here to feel VERY confident about that one. I was so excited for days, still am. I think that's the way to go. Just let it flow, no recordings, no pressure, be cool, don't be stupid, and if they're around, and you are interesting enough, and you have an open mind, and you are in a peaceful state, without a lot of clutter in your head, and no distractions...maybe you will hear or experience something. One thing I can say for sure, is when you least expect it! Maybe it's just best that I chill out, and listen, and enjoy like we always used to do, before all this happened. That's where I I have learned what is helpful in this situation, and what is not. I'm like Star Trek's VGer. I require the information. If I can pass some along too, then it works. You have to be smart about it. Maybe this is dumb telling you all this, but hey, you helped me, and eventually checked out the BFF, and saw this question. So I am unloading a couple years in one long post. There are good people involved with this phenomenon for reasons other than promoting true research and good theory. I have found it useful to stick with my core of experts who know me, and welcome me to speak freely. They give me a lot of great perspectives and approaches. Not recording is of concern to two of my core investigators, and welcome to two others. The unanimous thought is that I should do what feels right for me. I trust my gut. I test high for pattern recognition. As I approach season #4 of SSQ, thinking about where I'm at with it. It's going to be with no recorders, just free, like it has been for hundreds and thousands of years in this valley. I'm just a witness to it for our little time here. Saying all that, to get to your point about sharing things, I want to give back to this community that helped me when I was just learning about things. I agreed to help on a couple of media projects as a favor to the investigators who helped me. It takes guts to put the story out there, and if it wasn't for the people near here that posted their account on BFRO, and those investigators who answered my call, I would have still been wondering what the I saw that day. Sorry if this sounds self serving, all I can say is how it was / is for me. What other people experience, or believe, is theirs. This is mine. There is a lot of Idiot Wind out there, so I don't blame you for thinking whatever you think. There is no wrong answer except for hoaxers and lairs. Their idiot wind, as Bob Dylan sings, messes a lot of stuff up. Let me be one to buck the perception that habituators don't share, (yeah I didn't do that on this post). I would love to get answers, if you have a thought about it. I'll tell you what I know, if you tell me what you know. Together we should be able to figure something out, no? To move the ball forward, I will offer this theory I am embracing for the 2016 season, which is leaving the recorder behind. I'm taking pressure off the whole place. That's how it was when it all started. I'm just going to enjoy our place and not worry about the Boogie Man. Easier said than done. That first night without recorders, guess what happened? YEP, a power knock from the back field. I hadn't heard anything there at all in 2015. Coincidence or confirmation? Just back off and let it happen. In my opinion, if you try and play games with it, you will come up short. I also am entertaining the telepathy idea. See Minerva Monsters film. One of the witnesses had an interesting experience throwing a ball back and forth. I have had my own experiences. Maybe it can be explained like your dog that watches you and "knows" what you are thinking? The whole bigfoot thing is one big freaky jumbled up mess. Science is the foundation. There is a gray area after the visible science rainbow fades, where the unseen part is. That's what I want to figure out now. How does that all work. I have a clue, and an idea. That's what I'm going after this season. It doesn't involve recording them. I think it's within. It's personal to every person. No two experiences are alike. Hanging out with people that are interested, or who have had similar experiences, is very important to me now. Well, maybe not as important as it used to be since I closed it in with my core trusted close people. Where I am at this season, is that I know it exists, I'm past that. I'm past trying to catch it on tape. I want to know about the gray line that starts where science stops. I think there is more research to be done there. No recorders this year. Im a little naked and vulnerable, worried that my dream of the big howl coming back is going to happen and I don't have it on tape. Maybe it wouldn't come if there was a recorder going? It just doesn't matter. I'm just doing what I always used to do before, and at the time when the Locals showed up. When I set out the recorder, and I told them to chill out, it all went away. I'm just going back to what itway was like simply. I'm not going to worry about them, and if they come around when it's convenient and throw a knock, for me or for their buddies, I'll be here to hear it...just like I heard Tuesday morning when I cooked up this "no plan" plan. It's like chasing the Jack of Hearts on Highway 66. Like being "stuck inside of Mobile with the Memphis blues again." You could chase your tail and like Thom Powell told me that he knew someone that showed him 70+ pictures of stick structures. You can go around and around and around. That's why I liked this thread. If the habs have a clue, let's hear it! George Harrison sang, "And if you don't know where you're going, Any oad will take you there. It's a game, sometimes you're cool, sometimes you're lame. Oowee, just don't win, it's so far out, the way out, is in. Bow to God and call Him Sir, but if you don't know where you're going...any road will take you there." I am lucky that I have you all on BFF. After texting the crap out of my investigator's phone with questions, I found the BFF. It was a lifesaver for me. WOW. I soaked it all up at once, at the same time when stuff was happening here in in 2013, and I had to work myself up for two hours just to take the trash cans out that are 100 feet from our house. I laugh about that now, but it was real to me then. I didn't want to step foot off my porch, even with beer encouragement. That's no way to live. It had to stop. I needed to get a grip on the situation. It's way calmer now. I wonder where it all went. When I hear a rare knock it's a big deal. It's like seeing a tornado. You want to see it in it's glory, but don't want to see it's destruction up close. Be careful what you wish for. Sorry for the long post. I hope I can answer some questions about why people keep quiet, but I have always been enthusiastic about helping others that have helped me...and maybe together, we can figure some of this stuff out. Until then, I'll just be enjoying nature in the Mohican Valley, Ohio and happy that I have the time to stay up until the sun rises. It's so beautiful here. Thank you all. Hammer Just another tricky day - The Who ANyPxKqv8eKk_FTdx5kaq7HEPmBOHdoZBWctRy7lveZapEAxg1uu5n26JZaE5IVisKT3ViNLon9S1iuXiSwJH9z8JBfrp7jV9w

Hair, bone and scat in the possession of a lay person would, in no way, be "true conclusive evidence" of BF. Dang few people have the money to pay for DNA tests. And who could be trusted to do such tests?

Norse consider than if we include extinct hominids then the sky is the limit. We all know there were proto humans galore. We can include extinct animals and draw all kind of correlations. However keeping it in the present is perfectly alright. You ask how do we know Hobbit is extinct? Well you are raising a question to answer another question so to speak. There's a little thing called the educated guess that more than adequately confines Hobbit into the realm of being extinct. If we really want to get into antiquity let's add that we humans have a little bit of T-Rex in us too. We have a bit of cedar tree as well. BTW Hobbit is not a Crypto it is a known proven fact ever since it's remains were discovered. Real science at work. This is silly. Real science told us that Homo Erectus died out 500,000 years ago and that the last common ancestor was Homo Neanderthal which died out 35,000 years ago. And then they find the Hobbit...... 10,000 years is a evolutionary blink of the eye. Trying to downplay the distinction with a T rex example 65 million years ago is ludicris. The Hobbit bolstered the idea that we humans could still have cousins lurking in remote regions of Earth......sorry.

Proven DNA would be welcome providing of course it can truly linked to the subject at hand.

Thanks, and I think guys like Big Tree Walker and other researchers could be on the right track as well. Maybe its DNA or prey species bone artifacts that proves its existence. I would gladly welcome that.

↑↑ I completely agree. Even the invite came with built in excuses. Just more campfire stories. This subject needs more serious researchers like you . Ones who go out and try to a collect specimen in the name of science.