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First of all there are only one or two people on this forum that I would even put in the habber camp. And those only loosely and I don't believe they even claim to be habbers. Like I said we are all talking about something that most of us know little about and what we do know is what little the people involved want to give to us. There are other forums where habbers are more common. Perhaps the extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof mantra associated with this forum scares them off or they do not feel comfortable here?. But people here are making claims about what habbers are saying that I am not reading here on this forum. That begs the question of who is making things up? Habbers or those that claim to know about them? Just wondering.

So Crow starts this thread supposedly to discuss habbers failures to help science then concludes there is nothing there to discuss and it is all vaporous just like the existence of BF. Of course several proponents take the bait and begin arguing over woo issues as we tend to do. Crow keeps stirring the pot hoping to promote more dissent. The pot does not need a lot of stirring when proponents discuss woo. Meanwhile back at the ranch few of us even know habbers or know what we are talking about when we discuss them. But Crow again succeeds in spreading discord in the forum.