Leaderboard

Since we are discussing infrasound, I would like to share an experience that I had a few decades ago. I have discussed this previously with Far Archer and decided I would share it here as well... I believe it was the summer of '95, my brother and a mutual lifelong friend (who worked for the defense department) were doing a roughly 70 mile 6 day backpacking trip with shuttle between trailheads A and B, in the south eastern portion of the Sierra Nevada range of California. The route was ambitious but doable as we were quite experienced and still relatively young men in those days. Our journey started out at 9k feet and then climbed to over 12k, then down to 8 and back up to 12k and so on, as we would summit 4 high passes during the hike. Up and down - up and down. It didn't help matters that I dislocated my kneecap during an acclimatization climb on the day prior to starting our route, I decided to do the hike despite considerable pain and impairment, my thinking being that perhaps I could walk it off in some way. it turns out I was right but it took most of a week to do so. The important thing to note here is that because I was injured, I was usually lagging a mile or so behind my partners, and saw things that they didn't see that came into play later on... We got over the top of the first pass late that first evening and spent a frigid night in our camp, as some unseasonably cold air had moved in even though it was still late summer. In the morning our water was frozen and frost glistened on the granite. We slogged on for the next few days down into a magnificent lush green canyon, walled in by granite towers - then up an interminable 3,000 ft. climb, the Golden Staircase. I numbed the pain in my leg by drifting into the "zone" of solitude and clear thought (or so it seemed) inside my head, caused by the exertion and repetitive rhythm of climbing. Another couple of cold nights and then a planned early morning ascent of our penultimate pass, would be followed by a mild descent to XYZ lakes, a lovely hospitable place to camp that I had fond memories of from the early 70's. As I neared the top of the pass, I could see my partners silhouetted in the morning sun, already resting in the narrow notch that defined the low point of the col. Two scruffy looking men approached from the switchbacks ahead and as we passed we engaged in the normal backpacker banter of "How ya doin'" Where ya headed etc." I mentioned that our destination was XYZ lakes and their expressions seemed to change. "We were going to stay there too. but its not a good place to go. there's a massive bear problem there." said the dirtier looking of the two men, his sidekick nodded in agreement. I didn't think much of it and moved on to meet my companions on the pass. The men had told them the same thing... We reflected on the previous days hike and started putting things together. That day we had also ran into two men but hadn't thought much of it - but they had seemed rather odd and out of place. One was wearing a Ranger cap but no other uniform or identification, the other was a sparklingly clean, snazzily yet inappropriately attired man wearing what appeared to be FBI issue sunglasses. He looked as if he had shaved and showered that morning even though we were some 35 miles in from the nearest paved road. They had also advised us to not go to XYZ lakes, "We don't really want people camping there anymore, there are better places to camp," the "Ranger" suggested without identifying himself. As we sat and rested on the pass we talked about this for a bit, but decided that we weren't going to change our plans at this point. We moved on and my partners swiftly commenced to descend the pass as I straggled along far behind them. At a point perhaps halfway down the pass, I heard a droning sound approaching from behind the peaks to the west and before I knew it an unmarked military helicopter passed a few hundred feet directly above me and made a direct line for a small group of tarns somewhat north of XYZ lakes and perhaps a mile from my lofty vantage point. I sat and rested on a large boulder and watched as the chopper landed in a tiny flat area and was greeted by a figure that emerged from behind some large rocks. The figure was joined by a man who disembarked from the chopper and for the next 15 minutes or so they proceeded to unload what appeared to be some very large wooden crates from the vessel. The chopper then re-ascended and flew off to the east. My thoughts were that this was all highly unusual... I arrived at XYZ lakes a short time later. My partners had arrived at this deserted and rather eerie place a while ago and had begun to set up camp in one of the few remaining flat areas, the same spot coincidentally that I had set up in over 20 years earlier. But something was different now. Gone was the good feel and idyllic ambience of the place, instead it seemed grim and foreboding. My buddies mentioned that they hadn't seen the helicopter but agreed that the place was a little spooky. Later that afternoon we watched in amazement as what appeared to be a massive military aircraft flew high above us at top speed. It appeared to be larger than the size of a football field, as we saw commercial jets later that day for a size comparison. We chatted about this at sunset as we sipped the last of our remaining whiskey, then we each got into our own tents at dusk and fell asleep. I awoke in the middle of the night, and heard footsteps on the scree not far from our tents, slowly cautiously and deliberately moving about. They were not the steps of a bear or deer, besides we were well above the elevation of their usual habitat. I felt a fair amount of fear and a strong reluctance to investigate further. The next thing I knew it was morning... My partners had heard the sounds as well, and they too, were spooked but reluctant or unable to do anything. None of us seemed to want to talk about it much, as if admitting fear could be seen as a weakness. We broke camp and moved on, our destination being XXX Lake some eight miles distance away. It would be the final night of our trip as we would hike down to the high desert the following morning and head home. We arrived at our destination and set up camp, our tents about 20 feet apart on flat gravely shelves above the lake. Afternoon came and went and then we fished for a bit, I remember arguing with my brother over who would clean the fish... We were exhausted from our journey and decided to get an early night, besides we were out of whiskey. It was dusk and we each got into our tents. I crawled into my bag and luxuriated in the fact that my leg was feeling much better and that we would be back in civilization sometime the following afternoon and looked forward to having a real bed to sleep in as well! It was then that I heard a slow shuffling right outside my tent, perhaps two feet from my head, a step and then a pause, slow and deliberate, again and again encircling my tent. I was frozen in terror without the power of speech. I heard my friend cry out my name in a quaking voice, "Mort, is that you"! I heard a low guttural sound from the direction of my brother's tent. I could not answer - the terror was too intense. The next thing we all remember was waking up the following morning. There was no recollection of tossing and turning all night as you normally do sleeping in the mountains, there were no memories of getting up to **** or having a drink, there was just a blank gap after the terror at dusk. Nothing but a long sound sleep...We talked about it as we packed our things. We were still creeped out in a major way over the events that had occurred, but try as we may we were unable to fill in any details. Both of my partners said that they too had also heard footsteps directly outside their tents at the same time as when I did. Then, for all of us, it all went blank... We hit the trail, and I lagged behind, stopping near the end of the lake to **** before the long descent. I took off my pack and walked a few yards off the trail to what appeared to be a very old and abandoned camp from a bygone era. As I stood there I had a feeling come over me that I have never experienced before or since. It was a feeling of utmost melancholy and tangible despair, along with a sense of evil, of death and decay. I looked around one last time and then was quickly gone, The feeling though, stayed with me for the next several hours as I descended 5,000 vertical feet to the high desert. During the last mile or so I could see the parking lot still far below, it contained what appeared to be several shiny black or white government vehicles. Feds. What was more alarming was that our car was no longer there. It was gone! I was in a fair panic as I finally reached the parking lot and confirmed that the only vehicles that remained there were all of government agencies. "Its odd that we never saw any of these guys on the trail," I thought to myself, "Or maybe we did!" But what was even more alarming at this point was that my partners were nowhere to be found. They were gone as well... I threw off my pack and sat silently on a boulder among the sagebrush, contemplating what had happened and how to proceed. A lot of crazy thoughts went through my head as I stared out at the wide expanse of desert where somewhere the road home lay. Had my friends been abducted, "detained" or arrested for some reason? Were they injured or had they just vanished? Had the car been stolen? Where they playing a cruel joke on me perhaps? After perhaps an hour, I saw from the dirt clouds being thrown up from the desert road that a car was approaching but perhaps still five miles distant. I was cheered at least by the knowledge that I would have someone to share my dilemma with. Finally, as the car emerged through the dust and sagebrush, I could make out that it was our car and that it was occupied by my companions! We had a fine reunion - it turned out that they were far ahead of me and had driven to a small town to pick up a half case of ice cold beers to surprise me! I was immensely relieved and pleasantly surprised! Soon I waved goodbye to the lingering paranoia. We took this seriously for a lot of years. My brother even went so far as to have his body checked for metal implants prior to a full CAT scan. They turned up negative. After a while my DOD friend claimed that none of these events ever occurred and he would often become angry if we ever talked about them. Then after he retired early and started receiving a massive pension he again was able to acknowledge that they did occur and was in full agreement over the timeline of events. As for myself - it will always remain a mystery, but at least now I have some idea of possibilities...

No, I can see that. My first sighting was some time in October and it was probably 1976. That's my best guess calculation from surrounding details, not something I remember specifically. The last one ... I had to look it up, I was off by a day. It was the first saturday in October, 2013. I thought it was the 6th but the calendar says that would have been the 5th. 9:30 - 9:45 am if I remember right. On one hand, it's amazing what we can get used to and not really pay much attention to side details, on the other hand, when something is pretty traumatic or intense, a sort of auditory exclusion / tunnel vision can occur where we don't really notice the details. I worry more when someone remembers too much side detail it would not be normal to remember. The number of pancakes they ate, exactly how many cars they passed on the road, how many sodas they drank the night before ... stuff that looks much like they're adding irrelevant detail to give the appearance of precision.

Flesh and blood, yes, but the extent to which they possess abilities beyond our comprehension is not at all clear. These abilities needn't be thought of as "supernatural" or "spiritual" if they take advantage of physical processes in ways we don't yet understand. I think GottaKnow's analogy of echolocation in bats is actually powerful; take alleged infrasound, for example. This is a technique that's become fairly well accepted among BF researchers, if only for how widely and consistently it's reported, as well as having a known analogue in tigers and elephants. Yet we don't really know that's what's happening, it's merely a plausible mechanism that's not too challenging to anyone's world views, and seems to ring true with reports of deep vibrations felt in the chest, skin tingling, etc. Some of these reports of skin tingling mention feeling as if they're in an electric field, should that make us wonder if these are EM waves rather than acoustic ones? Even as satisfying as it is to suggest they can create a fear response through infrasound, thereby explaining many reports, it's speculative. I think the infrasound explanation comes up short of explaining the observed effects as well. I was on a trip where I believe a friend experienced this - our third time up to a spot we'd had activity the previous two times, this time a spontaneous Wednesday night where we arrived at 2 am (a poor idea in hindsight). In short, myself and two others went up the hill to look for firewood while the fourth was to go back across the creek bridge to unload gear from the truck. We felt extremely uncomfortable very quickly, decided to head back down, and found our friend sitting without gear by the fire pit. We all sat around a dark fire pit silently for probably an hour, incredible tension in the air. The tension eventually loosened, we found a stack of firewood at another campsite and salvaged the night. Our friend reported that upon approaching the steps leading up to the bridge, he hit a "wall of panic" and immediately turned back and went straight to the fire pit and sat and waited for us, almost without even thinking. The point is, there are times that they seem to be able to produce a specific response in humans, beyond what we could normally attribute to infrasound, whether disorientation/discomfort in lab experiments or paralyzing fear witnessed in the prey of tigers. Even if we're right about the mechanism, it falls short of a complete explanation. At the same time, just because they seem to be capable of such things doesn't mean they're "magic" - and the same could be true of eyeglow, mindspeak, and on and on. I'm not exactly comfortable with the "outer limits" of these types of reports, but I don't think it's responsible to recoil from them and throw them in the garbage just because they challenge our world views. If the major 20th century discoveries in physics have taught us anything, it's that our day to day sensory experience is a gross oversimplification of the real underlying mechanisms of the universe.

I don't have a clue of the time or date of my up close experience. On that mountain, one day was like another, and the only thing that counted was where the sun was in the sky - which I got accustomed to many years ago - as my clock. I don't keep a daily log of my activities, never have, and it's not looking good for tomorrow, either. MIB is right. You have a Come-To-Jesus realization, the last thing the in world you care about is the time, time zone, or date. Most of my life - I've never had a structured life that operates on dates and times. Of course a doctor appointment - but that's why I got married - to remind me of crap like that. And then, there's just no accounting for some folks reactions to some events. Maybe they don't do what we in the safe confines of civilization, on a keyboard think should have been the proper reaction. I heard more young buck replacements brag about what they were going to do in combat, and when it happened, you couldn't find hide nor hair of them, and later, "I was helping the medic," or "I was getting more ammo." Some of them wet themselves, as was clearly evident immediately after the action. It's just a bit different when it happens to you. One reaction after another.

Only discerning bears take the time to remove clothing prior to the evening's dining affair.

To dove tail some comments. When we say flesh and blood we mean a physical creature subject to the laws of our planet as we know them, being born into this world needing oxegen, food, and water, and also subject to death and decay as are we. Now examining human capabilities, we are indeed intelligent creatures, but our intelligence is adapted to an existence reliant on technology. Sasquatch has avoided technology so to speak, and has fully adapted to survive only on the natural environment it inhabits, and that existence is predicated on remaining undiscovered by humans. The physical characteristics, in terms of mass and muscle enable the creature to move at speeds and quickness that our minds and eyes are not familiar with for a bipedal type creature. Couple this with an agility far beyond what one might think possible for such a large creature, able to literally crawl on fingers and toes at a fair clip. Much of what might be termed cloaking could be explained as the creatures swift movement, which could appear simply as a blur. Mind speak, or telepathic powers...we all have heard of the pet who is able to know when it's master is coming and shows excitement leading up to the return, much as aboriginal hunters would be anticipated as when they would return by those who remained. The ability to sense something, or communicate something without words is fairly possible to the natural realm and need not be termed paranormal. The six sence of humans is dull, but it does show its self in certain situations, say when being stalked by a dangerous creature. Hunters and outdoorsman report the knowledge that something is stalking them without ever hearing or seeing the creature, at least as experienced subjectively to the concious mind. Perhaps we sense things at a level we do not always process in the concious mind, but do in our subconcious mind. Suffice it to say that we possess far more ability than we ever attaint to in terms of what our minds can accomplish, this all being completely natural, albeit seemingly supernatural to our current state. The ability of Sasquatch to remain undetected or at least not captured may very well fall into a six sense it possesses to survive, and to avoid humans. Whatever other natural abilities it may possess, it need not be termed paranormal just because we have not fully come to understand such adaptions. Perhaps we share a great deal with the creature in terms of biology, but as far as our adapted states, well we could not be further apart...they probably think we have a whole lot of supernatural ability from their perspective...

Really? From page 1 of this thread ... hiflier: That if they ever existed? They are now gone. Extinct. and we are simply too late. gigantor: That is the best explanation I've heard. and .. If that's not what you meant, what did you mean, not now, but at the time you typed it? 'cause it sure seems like are agreeing with hiflier that they don't exist and the efforts are futile. regarding: Nobody is actually accomplishing it but it sure looked, from your posts, like you and hiflier were doing your best to discourage me and anyone else from continuing to try where you'd given up. Seems now that's not the message you were trying to deliver but it is what I got from the words you both chose to use. Whatever. Probably time to move on rather than argue about what it is we're arguing about arguing about. MIB

hiflier, yeah, it's just wrong to lie about things like this as it's already a "touchy" subject to start with. Then when some yo-yo tells a lie, and it can be documented, it does NOTHING to help the cause - but certainly does damage to those who simply report the exact circumstances and events they saw or experienced. Even if he had a real experience that night - by fabricating that one detail - one is inclined to disregard every single claim he's ever made. For me - I won't let what someone else does, somehow diminish my own experience, and what things I do know for a fact. If everyone in the whole world suddenly confessed to lying about BF, it won't have one iota of impact on me whatsoever. I know what I know - and none of it relies on anyone else, nor their actions. Write him off as you wish, but know that there are some honest folks out there - I know of some right here on this site - and they too, know what they know. So. Screw this guy.

Cryptic, no, they don't. I was an Arctic Ranger in Alaska, and we worked often enough with law enforcement and game officers doing rescues of folks in very remote or very high altitudes, as we were already equipped, and we had military assets such as planes and helicopters - and when that wasn't enough, we were able to parachute in. Lots of bears. Lots of attacks. And the bears don't take time to undress folks - and in their pursuit of "getting to the meat," they will eat whatever clothing happens to be in that particular bite and mouthful. "Human remains and clothing found in the stomach of a 28-year-old brown bear killed by National Park Service rangers Monday have confirmed that the animal fed on the bodies of California animal activist Timothy Treadwell and girlfriend Amie Huguenard, authorities reported Thursday." (And the article goes on.) Anchorage Daily News, August 28, 2005. This is the norm. Now if someone is stripped, and THEN eaten by a bear - it makes me question what killed them and removed their clothes - leaving the body for a bear to find.

So if you've now decided they either didn't exist or don't anymore, why are you still here? What motivation remains? Your own bitterness is not enough, you've got to "whiz" in everyone else's Cheerios, too, so you can feel good about yourselves? That's something to be proud of ... NOT! Whatever was out there is out there still making tracks as of this past summer and my search continues. Do what you want, rationalized it how you will, but, as the saying goes, people who say it can't be done should get out of the way of the people doing it. Please ... get out of the way. MIB

Gotta Know, good thinking. I believe one reason "hunters" haven't found them is that they grossly underestimate their opponent - and for some unknown reason - assume too many erroneous beliefs. The "cloaking" concept cracks me up. They have a natural Ghillie suit, it's a flat, non-light-reflecting color, and they can low-crawl like a professional soldier. Put a Ghillie suit on a man and let him drop motionless in knee high grass - and he just "cloaked" up. Folks want to look for an eight foot critter, and because they don't see one somehow convinces them none were nearby. And that effectiveness is multiplied in low light or darkness - when the bulk of their activities take place. They do have some physical abilities we don't possess. Aside from the obvious superior strengths - speed, strength, stamina, size, power, natural Ghillie suit, and size, they have a couple other abilities we certainly don't have. Making them vastly superior to us in the field, except on occasions when one apparently gets a bit careless and has a chance meeting with a human. I've seen literal geniuses - who can't, or won't try to use a set of jumper cables without a manual. Oh, they're smart alright - but not so one would notice with any practicality. You're right - that box everyone keeps trying to limit them to is not small. It's mighty, mighty big. Otherwise, they'd be just another dumb animal easily stalked, trapped, or dropped. And that ain't happening.

I agree this thread might get more traction under the paranormal section. Simply, that there may be more leeway to talk about what it "might be" over there, and not just what it's not. Apologies if i wade into taboo areas. Personally, I don't know why BF can't be Flesh and Blood, while still having abilities that we don't yet understand with our own flesh and blood limitations. Really, our Human prejudice is what's holding most research back. For example, they have an incredible ability to hide and elude us. That's hardly up for argument. Some have put forward theories of "cloaking," but such notions are typically dismissed out of hand. Why? Because it makes us uncomfortable due to the fact that we (as Human flesh and blood) can't understand it. And that always cracks me up. We're talking about a completely unclassified animal, and yet we focus on what it CAN'T be for our own sense of security. Admittedly a weak analogy, but not so long ago we had no idea how bats did their bat thing at night. People (I'm assuming here) likely thought bats could see (optically) at night to find their insect prey. Or in ancient times, that they might be "magical." It was only through the advancement of science and (open minds) that their sonar was discovered. Yet it's a physical ability that we do not possess. This is all just a long-winded of saying that yes--I agree that the Big Fella is flesh and blood. But there may be numerous abilities they possess that we do not share. That does not mean those abilities are beyond the realm of possibility. I think this whole field is paralyzed by Human prejudice. To Hiflier, I think you nicely illustrate the Human prejudice I am referring to (not intended to be a barb, btw). You suggest that because their shape resembles ours, that they are somehow lesser because they don't exhibit technology. Last I checked, our technology is polluting the very air and water and total environment we depend on. No, I suspect their intelligence is extremely high. But in ways that we do not appreciate, or care to. Good topic! I just feel handcuffed trying to talk about it here. We're trying to put a very big Bigfoot into a very small box. Not gonna work...

I think the above reply exemplifies the problems that exist in today's education system - and we see it mocked with "man in the street" interviews - and folks give some of the dumbest, most unbelievable replies - when asked even basic, simple questions that clearly demonstrate their total ignorance of the subject. They'll hunt and hunt for exceptions - which generally apply to animals who don't wear clothing - and which have thick skins - and once the claws have penetrated, will tend to pull the skin back a bit to enable them to "generally" go first for the liver. But those who have recovered human remains from bear kills - believe it or not - know the tendencies, and the indicators of whether a person was killed or killed and eaten by bears. And if one doesn't understand, understand this: When a bear kills or consumes someone - there are claw, tooth marks - as bears tear into a body. They don't untie the shoes, remove the boots, socks, carefully undo the belt, unsnap the pants, slide down the drawers, remove the jacket, shirt, and t-shirt before feeding. It doesn't work that way. Period. We would on occasion find a helmet on a trail, then the AK maybe a few feet away, and then a blood smear with drag marks off in the jungle. Tigers have unique eating capabilities and habits, preferring to drag their prey off into a secluded spot to eat. They have a rasp for a tongue - and can literally "lick" the skin off their prey. They can rip and "lick" a uniform shirt off a man - shredding it to look like nothing you've ever seen before - and they too - go for the liver - first. Different predatory animals have different means and methods to consume their prey - and these methods and tendencies are well known. Except maybe, to you. Then, there's those who just want to tell part of a story - as the best lies - have just a bit of truth in them. Drew, I don't know why you have a weed up your kazoo, but for heaven's sake - don't just find exceptions and not realize where that exception fits in to a particular circumstance - and has nothing to do with the greater population of known samples. It's either extremely dishonest - or extremely inept. One or the other. You link showed one article from the Republican Journal. Let's see that you ignored. 1. You left out the fact that there were three tears in her flannel gown - that some believe may have been made while going OVER barbed wire. 2. You didn't post the Xenia Evening Gazette article that stated the girl died from a "blow to the head," 3. You left out the findings of the two physicians that initially indicated the girl died from a blow to the head. 4. You left out the second autopsy referred to in the Zanesville Signal that stated "Additional evidence revealed by physicians here who have performed a second autopsy, disclosing that three of the child's ribs had been broken prior to her death." 5. You also missed the October 14 article in the Findlay Morning Republican regarding "two footprints found near the body." Didn't say shoe prints, or boot prints. It specifically said, "footprints." 6. You also missed an October 15 article in the Chronicle Telegram that indicated "A third autopsy has revealed all of the ribs on the left side of her body were torn loose from the backbone." You seem to be a bit obtuse in your rush to criticize things I share. You seem to be extremely un-informed. Or dishonest. Just a friendly suggestion - if this is how you address a topic - superficially - you might want to try some men's fashion sites, or maybe some cooking sites - as they'll have the recipe attached to the proposed dishes. I mean, I'm sorry, but you're just not very good at this.

I type pretty fast, so I'm not too worried about initiating an extinction level event with a typo. It would take a complete idiot - feel free to check yourself if you feel you may fall into such a category - to not understood exactly what I was speaking of - it was a typo. Sometimes I type in .223 which is a bad habit I really need to avoid in the future. That's because they really aren't exactly the same thing. I'm a reloader and the NATO 5.56 cartridges have a thicker cartridge wall, for higher pressures, but is internally a smaller volume, which can cause a bit of a problem if not accounted for. Plus, the throat/leade is different - and if I'm using some IMI brass or Lake City brass - their leade is 0.162" if you're using a NATO spec rifle, but the Remington leade is 0.085", and if you get confused it's easy to cram the bullet against the rifling a bit too hard. Resulting in excessive pressure. Now you can put a .223 in a 5.56 rifle with no problem, but the opposite can cause a cartridge rupture. And then that gets into whether or not you're using a "looser" AR series rifle, or a precision bolt action - but I'm not getting paid to educate you - so you can figure the rest out for yourself. I find your Longtabber comment interesting, since many here know I'm not this mysterious Longtabber. The reason I find it interesting is that on another site for football fans - fanatics, actually - when I note the tone of your reply, the word sequencing, the overreaction on an obvious typo, there's this one guy that types the same way - his screen name over there is "Skidmark," and just like you, I'm getting this "Skidmark" vibe. He's pretty open, and while just an irritation in general, he's - and let me be accurate - he's a self-identified "Cross-Dressing-Crossover-Role Male Pre-Op High Intensity." These days, I know some groups want accurate terms, and abhor the more common generalities . . . so I suppose in the same manner you get a "Longtabber" vibe reading my posts, I also get a "Skidmark" vibe reading your posts! Funny how that works!

Bears don't skin people out of their clothes - they eat everything that gets in their mouth in the process of eating, and you'll find clothing in bear scat where they ate a human. In fact, when a bear is suspected, they'll search and test scat and if the kill is fresh - the stomach contents - and pieces of clothing are almost always found to have been eaten. They are really sloppy, non-particular eaters. And the squeezed to death wasn't native oral history - it was a coroner that made the determination - and clearly a rib bone had punctured the lung. In addition, there was not one bite mark, claw mark or any other mark on the body - indicating it sure as Hades wasn't a bear. A two and a half year old girl Isabel Zandarski was taken at night by what other children described by a large black man - and she was found - her skull was crushed, three ribs were broken, and all the ribs on her left side had been torn from her backbone. Bears don't do that either. At least none I've ever heard of. I'm not familiar with bone arrangements, so I have no idea on that.

Reaches behind, pulls yet another out of his nether region.

Why don't you answer the question? I don't give assurances where there are variables - ever. Your dishonest attempt to attribute an "assurance coming" from me is characteristic of your replies - willfully inaccurate - so at least you're consistent. I was told that our time fuse burned at 130 seconds per meter, but I never "assured" my assistants that they could be "assured" of that burn rate when we were cutting things close to give us just enough time to clear an area. Oddly, due to storage time, storage conditions, exposure to atmospheric moisture, temperature variations, etc., sure enough - there were on occasion variations that almost got us killed, meaning we could never be "assured" of an accurate burn rate, and had to factor in a plus or minus 10%. I was also told that the .556 had an effective killing range of 600 meters. But my personal experience demonstrated that after 200 meters, the killing effectiveness of the round gets really mixed results, and certainly nothing "assuring." Way too much post-action clean up work. I carried a number of different firearms in sequence, but when an enemy soldier fell on top of me because someone was sleeping instead of being awake on guard, we locked up, and I was the only one that had a knife. I learned that relying on your firearm/automatic weapon could not always be "assured." Any man who shoots one of these things while alone is not considering the variables. David Brown and Mertley Johnson entered the forest with sidearms, and within moments rapid fire was heard - and they weren't found until the following Spring - and they weren't killed by a bear, mountain lion, or wolves. Carl Herrick was hunting, and ran into something yet unexplained. He apparently got off one shot, and died by being powerfully cuffed up against his head and then squeezed to death per the coroner - and bears were in deep hibernation at that time. Corey Fay was hunting, didn't meet back up with the group, and only some of his gear and some small bones were found ten months later - he'd been undressed and eaten by something. Sam Adams was hunting with buddies, had a rifle and pistol, got separated, and disappeared. Eight months later, they found his wallet, clothes, boots (with shoelaces removed), remnants of hair, and his rifle busted into three parts. The area of his "battle" was found in a fifty foot circle, and he'd expended his ammunition. He was consumed on the spot. Bart Schleyer was bow hunting, and didn't meet the seaplane. Bart was a bear and wildlife expert with extensive field credentials. Investigators found that Bart had been sitting on his gearbag, calling Moose, and was taken by surprise his second day on site. He too, was undressed and eaten. And not by a bear. All that was found was a skull and a few teeth. So, Incorrigible - by all means - you go out alone, and shoot one. I strongly encourage it. I don't recommend it - but that's a long way from any "assurance" of mine.

Odd. They say Neanderthal and Denisovan come out of Africa - but not a single Neanderthal or Denisovan fossil ever found in Africa. In fact Neanderthal genomes are not found in Africans. I don't believe it. I don't believe the "Out of Africa" stretch.

Do your close, personal experiences indicate that to be the rule, or exception to the rule?