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First Nations peoples did not live like "throwbacks" to anything. To live close to the land -- to be in such harmony with nature that you don't need all the technology that "civilized" peoples need just to get through the day -- is not being "boxed in". We, the industrialized nations, are the ones that are "boxed in".

OntarioSquatch, so are you telling everyone (because it isn't just me here) that the double blind results from 12 independent laboratories should just be trashed? Call it what you wish, I have followed Dr. Ketchum, and her personal belief system, which I cannot mention here, would not allow her to taint the samples or the results. She went by the book. Committing scientific suicide by presenting bogus findings and passing them off as proof just didn't happen. Some of the scientists who slammed her study were only capable of running mtDNA themselves. Never mind them running something as complex as bioinformatics- something one of Ketchum's team could do. Besides, her samples have been gone over by others who agree with her findings- not just the 12 labs. Why are you so hot on keeping Dr. Ketchum so pinned down? Why is everyone? She's Human and so makes Human errors, so what, who doesn't? I worked for a great builder who built amazing high end homes because he was a perfectionist. But as a Human he wasn't all that great. Who is? Ketchum's DNA plan and procedure for the BF genome was top notch, but she has her foibles as a Human. So what. I look at the science. I have to. I cannot for an instant let the weakness of a Human overshadow good science. And whatever you say 500,000 bucks over five years would NEVER cover the cost of the team, the labs, the publicity, the supplies, the facilities' expenses? Hundred thou a year for all of that diagnostic work? Not even close and I don't need statements from Dr. Ketchum to tell me that. But this isn't a Ketchum thread now is it.

Indians slaughtered each other, including women and children, and conquered other Indians without hesitation. Sometimes it was for retribution, other times it was simply to conquer land. Those sound rather European don't they?

Trinkets look pretty good and flashy when presented to a people who have "boxed themselves in". Now this isn't directed at you Incorrigible1 or anyone else- it really isn't. And this isn't an ethics thread but I need to say it anyway. Just because a people, no matter who they are, is considered primitive by some one's standards does not automatically translate into a right to invade, abuse, belittle, harass, kill, enslave, or otherwise do whatever it takes to usurp what the primitive people have or enjoy as a way of life. It just isn't right. Period. Rant over. You may now return to your regularly scheduled program.

And this is the underlying point I'm trying to make. Sure, if a sample's nuDNA comes back as Human and something.....novel that's one thing, if it consistently comes back Human and something novel then yes, chinks in the wall should occur. But the issue is no one seems to want to touch this stuff with a ten foot pair of forceps. And we all know it. So it's catch 22 big time because as long as no one takes this on then Ketchum will be continually vilified. Where's the back up? And if someone or some place wants to jump in where's the money? Hard for me to think that not ONE lab or one scientist, Meldrum or anyone else push for any follow up lab work. Nope, but they will fawn all over Sykes, yes? The same Sykes who back pedaled on his results and came out admitting his Yeti hair wasn't from an extinct polar bear but was from a common Brown Bear. I get the impression ANYONE who delves into this kind of study will be destroyed in one fashion or another. It makes me think that instead of getting on the tar and feather bandwagon we should be supporting the people doing OUR work We can't do this kind of science, and we can't afford this kind of science and so trashing everything about these kinds of efforts is a serious mistake. MY OPINION. The skeptics will have a field day with me because of my position on this but I have not and WILL NOT back down.

REALLY cannot believe I'm reading this.

For some reason Ketchum's paper and it's status was "leaked" to Moneymaker by someone at Nature. Don't ask me why something like that should have ever happened but it does show the paper not being accepted for publishing. And it shows it from a source other than Ketchum. Maybe this belongs in the Matt Moneymaker thread? From here: http://cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/mm-sasquatch-dna-project/ (all bolding is mine as are the comments in red): "Heard from a reliable source connected with an article reviewer for Nature (a major science journal published in the UK) that the Ketchum paper was handed back (i.e. not *rejected*) for several reasons. One of the reasons: The paper “does not contain a testable hypothesis”. Not that the paper writers forgot to include something … It’s apparently more an issue of what is, and what is not, “testable” … and it’s a very technical matter that may not be resolved any time soon … Supposedly that’s just one problem with the paper … There are more: The writers were very obviously “not zoologists” but they needed to be for a paper like this. (they didn't need to be, Matt, they needed to be geneticists to do this work, which is what they are!) There is an undeniable silver-lining to this situation though: The paper was submitted to a major scientific journal and was under serious review by several top shelf scientists around the world. Hence, many elites of the scientific world are having serious discussions about the bigfoot/sasquatch topic for the very first time. Those elites are considering the issue of DNA trace evidence (from hair, blood, skin, etc.) sufficing as solid evidence to establish the existence of the species. I do believe a wheel has been set in motion that was not in motion before. There’s a growing awareness among scientists that there is private funding available for a top-shelf, A-team effort to prove the existence of the species through DNA evidence. Thus, if Ketchum can’t produce a publishable journal paper about her own work, for whatever reason, there will be some highly qualified scientists who will be willing to jump in at this stage. IMO that was the threshold that needed to be crossed. Matt Moneymaker I especially liked Moneymaker's second jab at Ketchum.

Yet they eagerly sought Western trade-goods, when offered.

When JFK ~(1962) said we were going to land a man on the moon, there were plenty of folks with a Luddite mentality toward such an idea. Ketchum took the aforementioned study results to the people at Nature magazine for peer review. After they saw them, it was so far outside their world of nine dots, they allegedly said it was too sensational for their scientific community. IIRC, they never said it was a scam rather too much science for their people to digest at one time. Even "science" apparently has its limitations, at least for now.

Folks I don't care if she's got a picture of the rear end of a donkey on her website or that she personally believes that Sasquatch jumps through portals to prey on unicorns. She still has what no one else has and no one else wants to see. Five years, 12 labs, some of them blind studies, and over 100 samples later? There is a result. She didn't do the Genome Project testing, she only managed the process of getting the samples tested. What came back wasn't from her. It was from the 12 labs. No one has done what she accomplished while at the same time absorbing everything everybody was throwing at her including misquoting and the constant jabs from the scientific community as well as the Bigfoot community itself. AND try to run a business during the time everyone was actively trashing her reputation. No one can deny that the lady has guts. She gave the believers exactly what they wanted and needed even before she knew anything about who was who in Bigfootdom. Not good enough though. Nope, everyone had her in their gun sights including scientists. I will say this, if a Sasquatch hair is found in that nest who is going to do the final testing? Guaranteed no one will accept the results. And after Dr. Ketchum's treatment who would ever step up? Ketchum had offered the samples to Disotell AND Sykes. Neither one accepted the offer. She was as open about the Genome project as anyone could have hoped for and not one door opened up even though everyone was free to test the same samples that she tested. I ask you, what is up with that?? Clarify that one for me if you care to because I am having and have had a real burning question about that. She gathered evidence from 12 independent labs that Sasquatch is a hybrid Human according to the tests on the nuclear DNA and NO ONE thinks it's significant enough to even want to check things out for themselves? The find of the century is laid at their doorstep and no one else wants to have a look by freely testing the same samples for themselves? Am I missing something here? Everyone knows I've always been in Ketchum's camp and so probably hate me too. Well I don't really give a damn.

Just remember, a sword cuts both ways so when the day of the European ends, as T Roy's said, "Chere, it ain't going to be pretty ". Hope that shoe feels good, on that other foot. Has anyone figured out how those "primitive" Inca's, Aztecs, Mayans and Egyptians built all those structures that cannot be replicated with today's machinery? What at some of you guys are postulating is it's perfectly fine to attack and destroy those you view as "primitive". This is precisely the mindset held by those on either coast of the US toward the Kulaki inhabitants of the flyover states. Stop and consider, then revisit your ideas on civilized and superior. Remember this when the guy comes along and crushes you with superior technology or money. Yep, we've come a long way.

Like aliens, for example?

But there are more senses than sight that a creature could utilize to detect humans. At a mile away? Sounds like a good sense of smell. Define "inferior". Just because I can beat a cougar in a spelling bee doesn't mean that he isn't a ghost in the woods.