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Dr Meldrum weighs in. A press release coming soon for a new publication. Don Jeffrey Meldrum 23 mins · There is no question that the the folklore surrounding the potential existence of a relict hominoid species in the Himalaya has been conflated with bears to varying degrees. However, the recent publication by Lan et al can hardly be considered the final word on the identity of the yeti. The supplemental information (not accessible by all readers) provides descriptions of the samples submitted by Icon Films, but a casual viewing of their documentary makes it apparent that most of the sources were known bear specimens to begin with, for example the hideously taxidermied bear mount in the Messener Museum, endowed with obvious canid teeth. Pluck some hairs from an obvious bear pelt and it should come as no surprise that the resulting DNA identification is bear! The documentary producers had a clear agenda from the outset -- dispel the yeti mythos as mere folklore surrounding bear. This was quite apparent throughout the course of my interview with them and in the resulting production (The same was attempted in the documentary with the North American sasquatch, focusing nearly all their attention on samples, provided by an admitted bear poacher, which had previously been identified as bear!) The most compelling evidence of a relict hominoid species in the Himalaya remains the footprints documented by the McNeely-Cronin Expedition to the Arun Valley in 1972. [The Arun: A Natural History of the World’s Deepest Valley (Boston: Houghton Mifflin Company, 1979); “The Yeti – Not a Snowman,” in Oryx (1973, 12: 65-73).] The Icon Film producers were not interested in considering this evidence during my interview. Unraveling the bear and hominoid threads remains the challenge before serious investigators. But to ignore the evidence suggesting a possible hominoid, while making dismissive statements based on questionable "yeti" evidence readily attributable to bears is hardly an objective approach. Forthcoming press release re a new publication in PNAS. PRESS RELEASE Abominable Snowman? Nope -- study ties DNA samples from purported Yetis to Asian bears -- New paper shows how science can explore the roots of folklore UNIVERSITY AT BUFFALO BUFFALO, N.Y. -- The Yeti or Abominable Snowman -- a mysterious, ape-like creature said to inhabit the high mountains of Asia -- looms large in the mythology of Nepal and Tibet. Sightings have been reported for centuries. Footprints have been spotted. Stories have been passed down from generation to generation. Now, a new DNA study of purported Yeti samples from museums and private collections is providing insight into the origins of this Himalayan legend. The research, which will be published in Proceedings of the Royal Society B, analyzed nine "Yeti" specimens, including bone, tooth, skin, hair and fecal samples collected in the Himalayas and Tibetan Plateau. Of those, one turned out to be from a dog. The other eight were from Asian black bears, Himalayan brown bears or Tibetan brown bears. "Our findings strongly suggest that the biological underpinnings of the Yeti legend can be found in local bears, and our study demonstrates that genetics should be able to unravel other, similar mysteries," says lead scientist Charlotte Lindqvist, PhD, an associate professor of biological sciences in the University at Buffalo College of Arts and Sciences, and a visiting associate professor at Nanyang Technological University, Singapore (NTU Singapore). Lindqvist's team is not the first to research "Yeti" DNA, but past projects ran simpler genetic analyses, which left important questions unresolved, she says. "This study represents the most rigorous analysis to date of samples suspected to derive from anomalous or mythical 'hominid'-like creatures," Lindqvist and her co-authors write in their new paper. The team included Tianying Lan and Stephanie Gill from UB; Eva Bellemain from SPYGEN in France; Richard Bischof from the Norwegian University of Life Sciences; and Muhammad Ali Nawaz from Quaid-i-Azam University in Pakistan and the Snow Leopard Trust Pakistan program. The science behind folklore Lindqvist says science can be a useful tool in exploring the roots of myths about large and mysterious creatures. She notes that in Africa, the longstanding Western legend of an "African unicorn" was explained in the early 20th century by British researchers, who found and described the flesh-and-blood okapi, a giraffe relative that looks like a mix between that animal and a zebra and a horse. And in Australia -- where people and oversized animals may have coexisted thousands of years ago -- some scholars have speculated that references to enormous animal-like creatures in Australia's Aboriginal "Dreamtime" mythology may have drawn from ancient encounters with real megafauna or their remains, known today from Australia's fossil record. But while such connections remain uncertain, Lindqvist's work -- like the discovery of the okapi -- is direct: "Clearly, a big part of the Yeti legend has to do with bears," she says. She and colleagues investigated samples such as a scrap of skin from the hand or paw of a "Yeti" -- part of a monastic relic -- and a fragment of femur bone from a decayed "Yeti" found in a cave on the Tibetan Plateau. The skin sample turned out to be from an Asian black bear, and the bone from a Tibetan brown bear. The "Yeti" samples that Lindqvist examined were provided to her by British production company Icon Films, which featured her in the 2016 Animal Planet special "YETI OR NOT," which explored the origins of the fabled being. Solving a scientific mystery, too: How enigmatic bears evolved Besides tracing the origins of the Yeti legend, Lindqvist's work is uncovering information about the evolutionary history of Asian bears. "Bears in this region are either vulnerable or critically endangered from a conservation perspective, but not much is known about their past history," she says. "The Himalayan brown bears, for example, are highly endangered. Clarifying population structure and genetic diversity can help in estimating population sizes and crafting management strategies." The scientists sequenced the mitochondrial DNA of 23 Asian bears (including the purported Yetis), and compared this genetic data to that of other bears worldwide. This analysis showed that while Tibetan brown bears share a close common ancestry with their North American and Eurasian kin, Himalayan brown bears belong to a distinct evolutionary lineage that diverged early on from all other brown bears. The split occurred about 650,000 years ago, during a period of glaciation, according to the scientists. The timing suggests that expanding glaciers and the region's mountainous geography may have caused the Himalayan bears to become separated from others, leading to a prolonged period of isolation and an independent evolutionary path. "Further genetic research on these rare and elusive animals may help illuminate the environmental history of the region, as well as bear evolutionary history worldwide -- and additional 'Yeti' samples could contribute to this work," Lindqvist says.

I had a Dave Bromberg album in the late 70's his version of Mr. Bo Jangles with it's backstory on Jerry Jeff Walker is classic Now where was I? P.S. I noticed you didn't make it on either one of gigantor's list of names. Keep your head down much? I kinda did notice the utterly complete distraction of your post. WSA's too as a matter of fact but, in truth, his was a bit more cohesive to the current dialogue. It is nice to be aware that you are 'watching' though. So, everyone, just how might the few recent posts affect the topic of Sasquatch's winter survival? Or at the very least our knowledge of its existence?

Plussed, WSA, for the Bromberg lyrics! Saw him play it, live, at the Ozark Music Festival, 1974. https://www.udiscovermusic.com/stories/bigger-woodstock-ozark-music-festival-1974/

I'm a dangerous man, from a dangerous city and I lead a dangerous life. I got a dangerous car that goes dangerous speeds, and a very hazardous wife. I got sixteen or seventeen dangerous girlfriends, not counting one or two... Look out kid, you don't want to get hit, I'm dangerous to you.... You better look out!

Watching the most "dangerous" people is also a very useful technique. They do that by infiltrating the independent groups and even providing some resources for them, keep them close so they can watch them and detect any breakthroughs. Examples of dangerous people in the BF world would be the highly motivated go-getters, persistent, independent thinkers who are willing to go out and look for themselves. They would be targets to keep an eye on. MIB, Hiflier, Norseman, Explorer, WSA, SWWASAS and BigTreeWalker are dangerous. How would you keep an eye on them? Befriend them, give them a place to gather and share their thoughts and discoveries. Then you can easily monitor what they are doing/thinking. Get their data and store it conveniently. I probably shouldn't bring this up, but if you look at the BFF leadership and some of it's most dedicated members, it's somewhat concerning... Director: MasterBarber --> LEO (never comments, but is always watching) Steering Committee Chair: Hairyman --> USFS official (never comments, but is always watching) Administrator: VAFooter --> LEO (never comments, but is always watching) SSR Data Curator: BobbyO --> Private Security (he's from England / Asia with a commitment to BF?) SSR Analyst: Redbone --> a mysterious person, nobody knows exactly what he does. Best Donor: JDL --> Military huummm...

Nobody can and isn't that the point? Totally disagree. They may not get far studying the phenomenon but that is NOT the point. The fact that they would be studying the phenomenon at all is the point. I mean, what does it say if they are studying the phenomenon? It says the creature exists- whether it's a waste of time and money or not. I have argued for at least couple of years here on this Forum regarding the simple fact that we are not being told that Sasquatch exists when everything points to its existence. And nothing but sheer logic says there has been and is efforts to keep it from the public. Everything points to that too.

Those who actually know have access to understanding those of us who don't know don't have. We have to consider the possibility they ARE doing the right thing, we're just naive .. and letting our feelings of entitlement interfere with careful judgment. Until the WHOLE public can deal with the truth, a level of secrecy is necessary because there is no way to separate the public who can from the public who can't. You can do great harm to those who trust you by making mistakes about who you, in turn, trust. Life isn't always conveniently black and white, especially when you have to deal with real people with real human flaws. MIB