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There is an animated gif on the BFRO website that is posted to show muscle movement on Patty. It is here: http://www.bfro.net/news/roundup/expeds_2018.asp To me, what I notice is a "belt" of fur that goes around the waist into the inverted "V" at the lower back. It appears that this fur belt is used to disguise an upper torso part of a suit that is separate from the lower portion and legs. There does not appear to be much vertical or diagonal stretching of musculature above and below the "belt" as one would expect as she walks. Instead it appears that the torso piece is rotating, outside and separately from the buttocks/leg piece, much like a larger pipe (the torso) would swivel around a slightly smaller fitted pipe inside of it (the legs). There are a lot of things about the Patty film that are compelling in terms of authenticity, but this is one aspect would indicate hoax.

Your statement suggests I am a victim of hoaxing. Your logic or implication is that if someone can prove that some footprints were or can be hoaxed that all must be hoaxed? That is classic faulty skeptic logic. Or if someone can duplicate a Patty costume, then Patty must have been a costume? I have no doubt and Meldrum will even admit, that some of the footprint casts he has in his collection of hundreds at this point are likely hoaxed. Patty or footprints could have been hoaxed but that has no bearing on the existence of bigfoot. All that takes is for one BF to be alive or have been alive someplace and made footprints and become known to science. .

There are those instances of sex-toys, I guess. Ostman, et al.

I'll have to disagree with you on that. The record suggests otherwise. You can cherry pick to omit those accounts, but that is what is, cherry-picking. MIB

It took many years of walking mountains, wading swamps and rivers to be able to hear them and see their sign, both day and night, and mostly alone. About 40 years ago it finally dawned on me there was a heck of a lot easier way to actually see and hear them up close, without any aggression on their part and without any real stress on my old ticker. Now I still do a lot of walking in the mountains day and night, but stumbling onto their tracks or markings are just gravy on a good hike. The chances of having one come in close, - and making itself known in a non-aggressive manner- to a person or group that is/are "whooping", yelling, beating on trees with clubs, beating rocks together or other such methods, are slim to none. Don't misunderstand, I and others do sometimes broadcast a short audio of a BF vocalization about "dark thirty", but its primarily done to determine if particular BF or group are in specific areas of their normal hunting/foraging areas. If so, we move further away, and use a specific non-BF sound to let the particular BF or group know who I/we are. A little more to it than this, but that's the basics. (Only applies to certain areas in SE states in which no "killer BF" have been reported. :-)

Typically such groups do not make it to their cars here on their own. They underestimate how long a hike takes, start too late in the day, if asked have no idea when sunset is, are under dressed for the weather, often are completely unaware a weather system is moving in, and have no means to start a fire. . They rely on their phones for navigation, then when it gets dark they use them as flashlights and finally call for help. Usually running their batteries completely dead. Search parties are formed and it takes half the night to find them and walk them out getting them out at close to or at dawn. Week after week it happens in the Columbia Gorge. Not so often now as most of the trails are closed due to the Gorge fires. I do for the most part solo research. I am aware of the risks. Bear, cougar, other humans, and BF themselves add to the overall risk. Have had bullets whistling over my head, confronted by a cougar, bear encounters, and cornered a BF who growled at me with displeasure. Out in the wind, a falling tree is always a danger. Those are all knowns but can happen without any warning. . It is the unknown that probably worries me the most. Hard to avoid something unknown to you. But on the other side of the coin, I move very quietly, can stop and listen often, make human smell proportional to one person, not several, and present myself in a not threatening manner. Have pretty well have worked out BF contact protocols that have worked up to this point. Not that I discovered them, but simply use what Native Americans have found works for them. Two words describe the NA contact philosophy. " Respectful deference." When I have deviated from that, is when they expressed displeasure with me. Corner one, trying to get it to break cover and you will find out what I mean. But quite frankly at my age, to have some misfortune in the woods, sounds like a much better way to go out than drowning from pneumonia in a hospital bed. I nearly took that route after Christmas.

By the same token though, if we were hunting partners and I knew you well enough to KNOW that you knew your bears? Then if you tell me that what you saw in the bush WASN'T a bear, and why, I probably would trust you and my questions WOULDN'T be about your coffee. And I also might ask what, if anything, do you want to do about it.

wiiawiwb, In this romantic notion, who are the first recognized peoples of north America ? " I'm Native American even though there isn't a drop of Indian blood in me." What nationality are your parents ? I ask, because I am Native American, my Mother as a child was put in the Residential Schools, as was her sister an brother. If you think bein' Native is some BS, you are mistaken ! So do tell, how are you Native ? So...I'll ask...how do you figure you are Native wiiawb...without a drop of Native blood in you ? Pat... norseman, I myself have been grateful for those who net salmon out here, an I guarantee if someone nails 10 deer, it gets shared, startin' with the elders or those in need. Those who are successful , share, I reckon you would do the same norseman, it is the ol' school way. Pat...

It seems consistent with SOME Native American beliefs. I have no problem with that. However, it's not the whole answer. As much as folks .. maybe like you, or maybe not .. might wish, what I saw was real. Process this: delusions and illusions do not leave castable footprints nor produce recordable vocalizations. While there is no proof they are "bigfoot" since we lack proof of bigfoot, **something** made them and it is not any known animal. Something "unknown" **is** out there. That is fact. You, or others, may deny, but will be wrong if you do. MIB