Leaderboard

Not to be rude but I think the smirks may come from English not being your native tongue and sometimes it’s hard to make out what your trying to convey. It’s not a knock on you, I appreciate your effort but I don’t always get the gist of your post. That being said I’m not the source of your smirk. As far as hiflier getting downvotes I believe that comes from his pattern of getting an idea and pushing that idea in darn near every topic and then being upset that everyone on the forum not falling in line with his idea. Seems every few months there’s a new drum to beat. Just my opinion of course.

Well which is it hiflier, in one post I do not bring up alternative methods to yours and the next you say I bring up a body on a slab often? Do I or do I not have an alternative option to your method of E-DNA? You say I bring it up quit a bit, do you want me to start looking at my total posts vs posts about a body on a slab vs. your total posts vs. E-DNA? I think you’ll be surprised how much less I harp on my method compared to you.

I wish you success in your approach.

I agree on that. HAH! Indeed I do, but then I expected as much. As far as that goes, I don't think I've reached the end of the road though. A bear turns over a lot of rocks in the talus field looking for moths in August. And that's a lot more difficult than what I've been doing The thing is, the science questions I'm asking about have nothing to do with Sasquatch as far as science is concerned. They are only science questions involving e-DNA sampling. I'm basically asking if science could find an escaped Gorilla in North America by DNA sampling the environment in an area the Gorilla is thought to be in. Of course that's a simplified overview. But for the Forum, it gets the point across. Mainly to show that one doesn't have to mention Sasquatch at all when addressing academia. All one needs is a parallel inquiry to see if such a methodology is feasible. And that's really all I want to know at this point. It's an entirely empirical question based on today's e-DNA capability. I say the answer is yes, but I would sure like to hear it officially from a geneticist. It has taken a lot of study and research to even get to the question but that's fine with me. And I will gladly pass on the question to anyone who wishes to ask any of their local PhD's or biologists. Could be time for a thread just on that. Or else dig up the Sasquatch e-DNA thread once more and stick it there?

Interesting comment from Jeff Meldrum at https://beta.capeia.com/zoology/2017/12/15/paradigm-shifts-and-the-search-for-relict-hominoids: Jeff Meldrum10. Jan 2018 "On the contrary Robert. Doug's remark was directed at the scientific community. As one who operates within that community I assure you that while there are those with open minds, they do not fell (sic) at liberty to display that open-mindedness. " "Career limiting move" is what Meldrum is suggesting. Meldrum and Krantz both received a lot of flack over the years according to reports I have read. This is the problem that I think your own efforts face, but I am pretty sure that you realize it. It takes a lot of courage to buck the established wisdom in academia. It helps to have tenure. In a bureaucracy, I suspect there are even more pressures to conform. I spent most of my working life in bureaucracy, and it seems to me that those outside the mainstream were quickly marginalized, ignored in discussions, and were not considered to be management material.

I think what it means is that we are all individuals with different beliefs. Not one of us is going to believe the same as the other individual. Science lacks belief since science is just that. Science is a method to prove and not used as a method of belief. If some one comes on here with a story of a sighting we are all going to have a different side of belief to this story. That is what makes us different as humans. I do not see my self as a rat nor do I see you as a rat in a maze that is being studied on how we believe. As humans we are all individuals in thinking and beliefs.. This is why there are so many opinions on this subject relating to Bigfoot. I and nor can anyone else change the way you think unless you are willing to change your belief as an individual. That's just the way it is. Twist I have no problem being corrected. How else will I learn. I would rather be corrected then not be corrected. But you did see my point about how people do hide behind these little icons. Rather then debate the issue it is easer to just post an icon. Where is the individual thought process with that. If you have some thing to say then speak up about it ( I am not saying that this was you either ) But why hide behind a icon. Debate your thought on the subject. So that we can get some form of input. After all we are looking for answers. Silence should not be an option. If we want to get any closer to the truth then we need to get input from others who are bright in their thinking. Is this not what open forums are meant for.

Well it wouldn’t be for me. I enjoy getting outdoors! But if we don’t have to kill one to prove it to science? All the better.

Proving it to science should be the primary consideration. Once proven to science the people ridiculing the witness become flat earthers...... It becomes fact. People in a free society can choose to ignore facts. But then they themselves open themselves up to ridicule.

See that just makes my point more clear when one post smurk on my post. Rather then post a comment they hide behind a silly smurk. Just like all the down votes that Hiflier gets on his posting of what he believes to be true . See it takes courage to post what seems to be happening to be true. But how can they when they are fearful of the ridicule that comes with a group mentality. It is like being out with wolves and the one wolf that goes against the way they think gets kicked out of that pack of wolves. There is no free thinking. Yet things do seem to lead to a single point and people refuse to accept it. We go out looking for proof and when we find the proof it gets shot down by people who believe they know what they are talking about. Yet these vary same people have never had a encounter of there own to even form an opinion of their own. It cannot get much clearer then that. Find, we are trying to set up a flow chart that will make it easier to get us to the truth. I do not have a problem with that. But how many times has it been tried and we have gotten no where with one. We have pulled up graph charts that show that there is a living species roaming in our forest. But yet we have not been able to get the data to be able to get on and predict when where they will actually be. All we have heard so far is " Do they exist or Do they do not exist " . Now that does nothing for research that is for a creature that is suppose to be Flesh and Blood. You have all these groups that have tried all these different techniques and yet still we are still stuck in the 60's and 70's of research. We have gone no further then where we are at today then were at back then. Now the sightings are still happening with credible people . Investigators are still investigating these sightings. So we cannot say that these creatures have been wiped of the earth completely. Because the sightings are still happening . Researchers have not given up on their research. So they must still exist. So how should we improve on this. what must we do to move this on a new level. Mike is bringing up good points on how we should handle it. Hiflier has a different angle as to how we should work this. I have a different perspective that not everyone agrees with but should be looked at. Norseman has the an angle that one should be shot. I believe that a lot of us are in agreement on this angle. But we need more information before we can even move forward with this. Finding a dead body would be best. But how many years have gone past and yet not body part has been found. Which led to the speculation that they must either hide their dead or bury them. Which this leads us to a totally different direction about them. So in my opinion we just need to start thinking in a new direction.

Yes and no. Depends on the "hat." A person can be a witness or a researcher, or both, but those who are both generally have a primary role, one that outweighs the other. For a person who is primarily a witness, then proving to "the common man" amounts to proving to the people who ridiculed them, and yeah, that is who they are trying to convince. For a person who is primarily a researcher, then proving to science, or being able to prove to science, is the prime consideration. Agreed. I think it is likely that any "piece" large enough that it can be subjected to repeated DNA testing, thus confirming the results more or less on demand, will be sufficient. My personal "gold standard" is placenta providing blood and tissue without need for injury. Fairly unlikely, but gold standards are not required to be easy. MIB

This doesn’t matter. We are trying to convince science......NOT the common man. We don’t even need a full body. A significant portion will do.

My own father of which I share 50% of my DNA with saw that 180 cities in the USA had Riots, Looting and Beatings of innocent business owners on the news last week complete with on the ground up close footage and my step-mom said he refuses to believe it, thinks it's all fake in order to drive out Trump! People see what they want to see from their Safe Spaces! all the business owners getting randomly jumped looked like they were in disbelief too from all the videos I saw...

Hey Wolfjewel…...good to hear from you:) Yeah, I never kill the snakes, and I am very good at identifying them, if I get bit, then that snake dies, but not creating any negative 'snake=karma' for now, an old Indian guy taught me that. First, my wolf Lulu likes your name, she's my hiking buddy for 9 years now, and unlike most dogs, she doesn't mind searching for the hairyman, plus she has the nose to find them, in fact....she might have rolled in fresh BT poo the other day, huge pile, and took me 15 minutes to scrub it off, what a weird smell too...….this kind of research I can do without! Here are some pics from the weekend; Pics 1-3 : A very fresh Sotol chew, wasn't there the day before, I know they love to scrap the tender white meat off the shoots with their teeth, but I find there chews too, are the big males doing that? They are always big, wouldn't want that in my mouth, lol, this one is in a baggie a still wet with spit. Pics 4 & 5 : Double prints from a trackway, big & juvie it appears to be Pics 6-11 : More big and small prints Last : For you Wolfjewel…..Lulu says "Howdy"

I like this, because it is on topic and so true. There is value in mucking through misinformation, disinformation and hoaxes in that it has educated us in narrowing down the field in what we choose to deal with, and for how long. And it has helped better for researchers to know what gets more valued should they wish to post their findings. All that stuff has helped define the avenues worthy of our pursuit in solving for Bigfoot.

Hi all, returning member here, used to hang out here a lot but my membership must have been lost. Always enjoyed this place and need a diversion right now.

You have lost me there hiflier? How far, who backs off, where does the discussion need to go? Three of four times? I do a lot more than that. Every time I read, I see something to revise. Every time I revise, I introduce the possibility of error. Writing computer code is the same by the way. I seldom have written an error free post. I probably never wrote any error free code either, when I was in that business. It is very hard to proof read your own work. I usually spot the mistakes after I have hit the submit button. There must be some deeper reason that just carelessness. You have lost me here. What does it mean to take the subject so far and back away? Who is afraid? What are we not speaking up about? Signed Perplexed

What exactly are you looking for as far as searching for answers about these creatures? As far as going with the subject so far and then backing away from it statement goes. There is no truthfulness going on with what we are seeing and hearing about these creatures. No way to discern the wheat from the weeds in order to understand what we are really dealing with. Witnesses get fearful of spilling their sighting due repercussions that come along with the event. It is even worst when there is an event that the witness cannot even understand what took place. A lot of these so called groups vent these sightings out of their data base since they do not want to deal with these types of events. Most groups do not even dare speak of these events due to the fact that they do not want to be known as being crazy. It does not matter that these creatures are flesh and blood. It is the unexplainable that occurs that is perplexing that has these groups drawing away from the truth. What is the least thing that no one wants to speak about these creatures on this forum? What is it that everyone stays away from and refuses to accept? These groups have all experienced it at some time in there research. The problem is that they refuse to admit it . They would rather sweep it under the rug. Yet ,it keeps coming out in the fore front. Which makes these creatures complex when they are not. Am I throwing out my opinions , you bet!

Maybe check out my post again if you would? People here are afraid to go after the truth by knocking on doors of science or just about any official agency. Even though by doing so they could circumvent all of the misinformation, disinformation and hoaxing you described in your OP. And just so you know, this is not a subjective opinion that I have. Members have told me straight out that that they are afraid to lift their heads or raise their hands to a state or government agency in order to push for the truth about the existence of Sasquatch. So it's not something I'm just making up. The fear is a real thing here on the BFF. I email agencies, little if any response (though I was able to actually speak to a state biologist on the phone). I have emailed over 15 academics, emailed Dr. Meldrum, Dr. Disotell, AND Dr. Mireya Mayor (Expedition: Bigfoot- primatologist) to no avail. But the truth of the matter is that if a lot of folks got together and did this as a consensus then maybe some headway could be gained. As it is most everyone simply hits the woods hoping to find some sign of the creature, or just come here and deal with the misinformation, disinformation and hoaxes. So much time and so much energy/bandwidth, and it's been like this for the 7 years that I've been here and, believe me, a lot longer than that. The point is that people will only take this subject so far and when it looks like the only sure course left is to knock on some official's door then they stop short. It's as if they would rather deal with the years of misinformation, disinformation, hoaxes and ridicule than meet the problem head on and confront the people or agencies that KNOW the truth. It is fear that keeps us on the fringe. Nothing else. That's why we subject ourselves to the shams and scams in Bigfootery. Because we haven't got the steel to go get the answer. I don't think I could explain things any clearer than that. How many times have I read where family members snicker and roll their eyes, never mind the media and other entities. And it's no one's fault but our own. My own hypothesis regarding discovering Bigfoot using a certain genetic signature is out there right now to no less than SIX PhD's just looking for an assessment of the concept. Only two wrote back saying they'd look into it and to give them a couple od days.......that was weeks ago. Because, as has been told to me by a member here, I am just one random person. The reason I AM that one random person doing this outreach is because of the fear that is here. Now I'm not saying this because I think this is where your thread's discussion ought to go, Only, as I said, that it might be PART of the discussion: P.S. I expect at least one downvote on this post.