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Upvote from me for telling it like it is. I also followed up on a BFRO report in Montana when I was working in the oilfield. The location was not the location. There was no way to know if I was 500 yards away from the sighting or 5 miles. Science is grounded on testable, repeatable results. Not secret handshakes and hidden data. I can’t go measure a tree at a sighting location if you hide the location from me but post it on your website as if it’s legit.

I think that's bullcrap. 4 days, 3 nights. For $300. Consider the alternatives. Theme park? How far is that $300 going to go towards 3 nights of hotel, gate fees, and ride tickets? Something else .. ok, I want to hear it. A cruise? For under $300? I want to see something where you're staying away from home, not with relatives, and participating in something, 3 nights 4 days, so cheap that $300 appears out of line. I'm waiting. Truly, if there is something you enjoy that is so much less expensive for the same amount of time and gives you equal enjoyment ... go do that. Stop trying to piss in others' cheerios just 'cause you're too cheap to buy your own. MIB

Sure, V. Like with MUFON (Mutual UFO Network), government gets first crack at anything sensitive before it gets to the public. And it is my opinion that the BFRO also gives first crack at sensitive data to the government. It is therefore my further opinion that what we get has been "sanitized" along with other Bigfoot studies and resources. This is in order to keep knowledge and truth from the public and in the hands of stakeholders like government and corporations whose revenue and wealth management is most important above all else. My opinion but it's based on a lot of logical deduction regarding habitat surveillance capabilities and many other things- such as science's total hands off attitude. WHY? Because public disclosure of the Sasquatch's existence would be a nightmare scenario that would affect the flow of money in a big way. The BFRO is the big dog on the BF data collection block and so if I were government I would give them an offer they couldn't refuse....even if they wanted to. People have discussed certain undesirable outcomes, both personally and professionally, for anyone out to prove the creature's existence via physically collected evidence- such as a body or body part, and tries to get that evidence to science. Subsequently there's a lot of fear here in even confronting agencies to tell the truth. 99% of the public will submit their witness reports to the BFRO because of it's exposure just about everywhere in the media. How much of that exposure came in the form free advertising in the interest of keeping the public informed? There IS no interest in keeping the public informed. There IS interest, however, in making sure that information is channeled and controlled for the purposed of keeping the public off balance and in the dark. It's what governments do. So government was never about to let the BFRO run loose with their data. We only get the watered down version of things coupled with the neither-confirm-nor-deny-just-ignore answer to the question of Bigfoots existence. The BFRO? Neither confirm nor deny. There's no difference between the two, government OR the BFRO. All the TV shows were designed to do was drive the public to the BFRO. My opinion.....

I don't think that anyone is trying to silence your 'TRUTH', but I think that a lot of members are over people and their vendettas in the Bigfoot world. I don't particularly care for them, but they have zero effect on me or my research. At the end of the day, if people think it's worth the fee that the BFRO charged, then let's hear it for capitalism! It's not like this is Jonestown. They aren't machine gunning people in the national forest parking lot.

When I couldn't afford it, I didn't go, but I also never paid $500 for a trip. I feel bad for anybody who has. People who didn't want to camp didn't have to. There was always a hotel a reasonable distance away. There ARE some things about BFRO that bother me though. The fact that they seemingly only publish about 10% of the reports they get is disappointing. I've seen some drama that made no sense to me, but that may be more about people than the organization. I don't recall exactly who I heard this from and I'm paraphrasing, not quoting, but I think it's a decent analogy. BFRO is like grade school for bigfooting. You attend for a few years, learn some things, make some friends, and then move on to higher education.

Absolutely!!!!

My plan is usually to be quiet and non-threatening. However, I have also sat in the dark and played my harmonica - poorly - in hopes of interesting them.

More power to them. Every business/organization spends money up front and devotes endless hours of time for which they are not paid a penny. Most fail...those who do survive are few and far between. They richly deserve the spoils of their efforts. I consider it deferred compensation for the nights endured without a wink of sleep worrying how to make next week's payroll.

Hi, my name is Mark. I have loved the Bigfoot topic ever since I read a book on Bigfoot when I was very young. I have never had an experience but I hope I do one day. I believe they are real, and I need to step up and start researching in the fields for myself. I live in Southern California, so exploring Northern California is definitely possible.

Oof. We need to up our game. "Join our professional outings in search of Earth's most mysterious creature! Each guide is a certified member of the worldrenowned BFF! Please make sure to visit our mobile gift shop at the conclusion of your trip!"

I have wondered if we should be using the open palm hand raised signal the NA used to indicate to other NA they were friendly and unarmed. Certainly sitting down could be even better but might be construed as signaling defeat like the NA singing their death song. Maybe sit down and say "Hey want to talk?" The Quinault elders emphasized lowering your eyes almost into a bow when face to face with BF. I suspect it is to allow BF to leave without being watched. I may lower my head but not to the point of not watching the exit. If you think about it some NA actually had interaction to the point of trading with BF so must have established at least hand signal communication. The NA also used hand signals to communicate with other tribes without a common language. Maybe BF wonder why we don't communicate in the old ways any more. Certainly if chimps and gorillas can communicate with hand signals to humans, BF are capable of it. I certainly talk to them when I think they are nearby and can hear. That has to communicate that I am not hostile and want to treat them as equals. Other than a growl have never heard anything back. Since the French were in the PNW far longer than English speakers, maybe we are trying to use the wrong language. Some claim the swamp apes of Florida use Spanish words perhaps for the same reason. The Spanish were around far longer than English speakers.

So just an estimate here, 20 guests at $400 for 15 expeditions, makes for $120,000 per year in revenue. I have no idea how much they take in from merchandise sales, probably not a whole lot. And the only expense I can see for them is the website; there are no paid staff as far as I know. They should be able to run the website for $20K/year I would think, although I have no idea how much it really takes. Left over is a nice little chunk of change for the boss. Congrats to him for setting up a profitable small business.

These statements reminded me that, at least in the past, when I went to collaborate the BFRO report with Google Earth, there were a number, more than I can attribute to just human error, that had identifying information about the location wrong. Sometimes little things, and sometimes it was a major mistake. Anyway, I got the distinct impression information was bein manipulated to throw other researchers/curiosity seekers off the track.

^ Exactly!

That might be me. My plan, next time I get "pushed", if there is a next time, is to just sit down. From sitting, you can neither attack nor flee, so you reduce the appearance of threat and you demonstrate willingness / capacity to manage your fear. Both of those indicate lower risk to the BF. Realistically, you're not going to outrun them if they decide you're prey, you'll just die tired. Seems to me you might as well try to play the cards some other way. MIB

Amen to that Norse. I'm in the business world and know all too well about the myriad of regulations, rulings, filings, and fees a business faces. Miss a payment or a filing and you are faced with penalties of epic proportion.

Couldn't the BFRO make that same argument concerning what they charge consenting adults?

The US $400 price tag doesn't just go into the general coffers of the BFRO. The organizers of the expeditions get reimbursed their out-of-pocket expenses researching the area they want to take attendees. That $400 is also for the attendee and a guest, so if you want to take another person with you on your camping trip, you are both covered. As for NDA's, some expeds have them ... I have never filled one out. Also, the three trips I went on, were always as a guest of a BFRO member, so I never had to pay. I did, however, have to supply my own equipment and food. As an avid camper, I already had my own gear, so, meh ... didn't/doesn't bother me. "Technically", the only ones who don't have to pay to go on a BFRO expedition, are the benefactors. Most organizers will not charge other BFRO members for an expedition, but I do know of one who insists that everyone pays (unless, of course, you are his buddy). At the same time, though, he refers to guests of other attendees as "charity cases" because they don't have to pay (every organization has its designated clown). $400 is not a lot of money if you think about it. People easily spend that much just on camping gear alone. I know of one "researcher" who charges CDN $2500 for his 7-day expeditions to his "secret spot" on northern Vancouver Island. They go out looking for tracks during the day, and at night, he regales his guests with stories of native lore and legends from "Monkey Island" (or "ape Island", as he sometimes calls Vancouver Island). I don't know if he's still doing these expeditions. I stopped communicating with him after his racist rant about "the White man" on Facebook.

A Kodiak brown bear hunt costs about $20K. Brown bear hunts elsewhere in Alaska and in Siberia can cost almost half that. Polar bear hunts, illegal everywhere else, can cost over $40K in Canada. Such prices are driven by legally limited opportunity, lots of competition for those opportunities by plenty of guys with lots of money to burn, and transport access to some of the most remote spots on Earth. If BFRO was to conduct a bigfoot hunt in a remote area like Misty Fiords National Park or Kushtaka Lake in Alaska and provide the final leg of travel like hunting guides do, the cost would also have to be in the thousands. While all guided big game hunts do not offer guarantees (a few do), the odds are proven to be well over 50% of actually bagging the quarry. The odds of not even seeing multiple bears is very low. You will watch many bears with your optics (the guides do not provide personal hunting equipment, but do feed and tent you). That all said, brown and polar bears occupy open country. Like sasquatches, black bears occupy forested terrain. Guided black bear hunts tend to be hunts over bait. The fact that such a bear hunting tactic has not produced a single sasquatch report is remarkable, because they are conducted in some of the presumably best sasquatch habitat on the continent.

Man the amount of times they banned me from there ! lol

Here is a link... enjoy https://web.archive.org/web/20160411043615/http://s2.excoboard.com/BFRO I've been on several BFRO Expeditions and don't regret spending the money. I learned a lot but more importantly, I found what will be lifelong friends who I still hang out with. I am somewhat unlikely to join another BFRO exped in the future, not because of the money, but because I never want to sign another NDA. I was somewhat upset when BFRO and Finding Bigfoot went ahead and gave away the best spot in Iowa, Yellow River State Forest. Pretty sure I recorded other squatchers hollering after that. If that money helps keep the BFRO sightings database website alive, than I'm for them charging whatever they can get away with.

I prefer a balance of noise that draws attention and curiosity without being threatening. Having 1-2 friends can make that easier. Talk. Joke. Laugh. Cut some firewood. Fish. If one of the friends is a kid, play catch. Mixed gender, mixed age. Look like a family having fun, not like a military unit doing covert ops. Be comfortable in your environment, project calmness and confidence. No bluster, no acting all tough to cover fear of the woods and fear of the dark. Lot of people don't seem to know the difference. I think 4 people is absolute max .. too many eyes from camp makes their approach risky. I do not try to do serious bigfooting with larger groups. There are things to do, share info, enjoy friends' company, practice camp cookery, and you can surely look for tracks and listen for distant sounds, but the odds of them approaching us goes down when the group is too large ... IMHO anyway. Not impossible, just less likely. By myself, I do roughly the same thing but with less noise. Still, the sound of chopping wood carries. Then get out in the open along a lake or stream and be seen. The important things are to be interesting and don't not to appear sneaky, aggressive, or afraid ... in other words, appear safe to approach. MIB

Let's say someone has developed an interest in sasquatching. They see things on TV and want to participate but, never having led an outdoor life, they ask themselves -- where do I start? None of my friends of family are believers. I think a BFRO expedition would be an awesome way to segue into that world. How is it any different than paying a photographer to teach you how to use a manual camera, a ski instructor showing you how to downhill ski, an artist teaching how to paint, or even an attorney for advice? We all have to begin somewhere and if no one in your life has any experience with sasquatching, you pay for it. I call that a smart thing to do. People have to recognize, and accept, that they don't know what they don't know. If it's a painting, and you do it on your own and fail, you've wasted some materials. If you venture into the woods, trying to be emulate the bigfooting you saw on TV, and fail, you could end up on the ugly side of a SAR rescue. In the end, they may develop friendships which allow them to go sasquatching again and again as a member of BFRO or a local group of similarly-interested people. Friendships develop and flourish. That, to me, is a very small deposit to make for a large payoff in the future.

There are members here who are doing research now because they attended a BFRO expedition.

I have no problem, whatsoever, with the BFRO charging whatever they can get for allowing someone to participate in an expedition. If the BFRO could charge $5,000 per person, I would applaud them. There are no victims here, there are only winners. There were those who provided a service and those who were willing to hand over their hard-earned money for that service. Amen. Last time I checked my accounting records, no one has ever paid me a nickel to take them on an expedition. Kudos to the BFRO. For purposes of full disclosure....I am not a member of BFRO and have never met anyone who is.

Okay, interesting take, mine is a little simpler I guess although not nessicarily in conflict with yours. I think it's simply a money grab with them. 300 bucks per person per expedition per state, is a lot of money. That said, controlling the narrative is part of their schtick imo, because they are the "Only Scientific Outfit doing Bigfoot", so no woo, but, aggressive bigfoots are also bad for business. The narrative control is likely part of it for whichever reason, but from some things I've heard I don't think they're that sophisticated. Two folks I know started out with the BFRO and left the expedition because of the one holding it getting drunk while there and being abusive and profane. Interestingly just recently on FB though, the head man himself said clearly all the "negative nancies" in the group needed to drink the kool aid or leave the group. A day later the local chapter did same. That, I found cringey, a wee bit cultish even. If you're talking about Wally, the word is that he did distance himself from Moneymaker who the rumor had substance issues draining Wally's account, read that in a Book I bought a year or so ago.

The few interactions that I have had with their members were a bit... cringey. They definitely seemed to anthropomorphize the creatures and honestly came across as crazy cat ladies who had traded up in their obsession. Really no way to say that nicely although I don't mean it as an insult. I could be described as a crazy cat man myself in many ways. They seemed to be enjoying themselves, though, so there's that. Like Norseman, I am pro-kill, which seemed pretty repugnant to the ones that I met. They also seemed a bit confused about why someone would be involved with Bigfoot research WITHOUT being involved with the BFRO. Honestly, it seemed like they found a great deal of camaraderie in the group. It also seemed like many of them were not the sort of people who would normally get out into nature much, so being involved with the BFRO was probably beneficial to them. I am working off a pretty small sample size, to be honest. Between the pro-kill differences and not being much of a follower myself, I doubt that I will have a chance to interact with many more if them.

I think they’ve done more good for this subject than bad, inadvertently or not. The tv show was just that, a tv show, no more and no less. Moneymaker gets a lot of bad press, some of it maybe warranted, but you can never knock the guys passion for the subject itself, and I respect that in a person even if I don’t necessarily agree with all he says. Their database deserves a heck of a lot of credit and praise too, and for that alone they get my thumbs up personally.

Any answer that I give here would probably be more suited to the political section of the Tar Pit, so I think that I will just see myself out of this thread.

Sounds like a plan NW.........hey gigantor, hope you are safe & well,! These woods around here, like most places, turn into something different at night, lotta stuff I wouldn't want her messing with, other wolves, packs of Coyotes, hogs, maybe even a hungry hairyman, can't take a chance of loosing my best gal:)

No vendetta, curious of other's experiences with them. Are you a member? The "rumors" have been around for some time, there are good members as others have also said, the main issues seem to start at the top. If you want to be a Moneymaker fanboy just be forward about it.

Its not a vendetta, just distaste for their methods, but the downvoting does indicate butthurt. Still large for an ideal sized group in my opinion, nothing but a loud convoy of vehicles, and too large to stay organized imo.

They bring the hordes, paying hordes... Leading Campers on guided tours isn't research, its tourism There are websites where one can look up a 503c status or similar, if you want to dig into that. Getting downvoted for telling it like it is, too funny.

Not Bullcrap, one can do their own work and go out on their own, that's what I did. It's a business pretending to be a research group, at least on the top. You seem very offended over nothing. I throw a backpack, research gear and a hammock and just head out for a few days. Is that so hard? Do I need that to justify my efforts? Whether I do or I don't isn't anyone's concern. If they only release 10% of the reports then what are they hiding? Maybe the "gateway to the feds" narrative has some merit. It's a business.... not research.