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And with that stellar argument, ^^ the man proves a negative---all by himself, right here on a BFF thread. A round of applause ladies and gentleman, that is some top notch scientific thinking!!

Hundreds of thousands of gorillas existed in relatively accessible coastal areas of Africa during thousands of years of Europeans sailing by. Over the eons, literally millions of native Africans knew of these creatures and even hunted, killed, and ate them. Documented legends of these gorillas reached Europe over 2000 years ago from travelers to the region. Yet it wasn't until just 166 years ago (@ 100 years before my birth) that the European knowledge gatekeepers accepted the existence of gorillas. Think about that for a moment. European slave traders had been moving millions of African tribesmen from the depths of thus very region to the coast and shipping them to the New World by the millions for well over 200 years before DuChalliu brought the first gorilla carcass out of Africa for the Royal Geographic Society to finally accept, and even then, the American public didn't accept it for decades. Absolutely nothing has changed with regard to the knowledge authorities except their names.........

I did get out for part of the day today, but not for mulies in the cascades, as I got a late start, so my daughter and I just went into the nearby coast mountains, above the town of Hope, where the elusive deep woods blacktails (and sasquatch) hang out. It was drizzly and cloudy from 10AM to 2PM, then the clouds really socked in, and the rain got heavy enough that it wasn't worth stay in the high country, so we headed back downhill about 5000 ft to the highway and home. At the crest of the ridge we got into light snow, on the ground, and falling, but found no tracks in it. The only sign we found was some fresh bear scat below the snow line. I hope to get out again tomorrow, as the forecast is better, but have to be back by 5:30 for Thanksgiving dinner, so can't get too far afield.

Interesting breakdown. The thought that we are a sub-group of primate known as the Great Apes puts a new meaning to human. The way some people act such as in the riots in Portland, OR, does side with the great ape classification! Anyway back to the topic of sleeping out under the stars in squatchy country. This does take some courage. Some reports describe bigfoots as being highly agitated when they find campers in their territory. In a few cases, the campers piled in their cars and left all their gear behind until the next day. I posted an incident that happened many years back, somewhere in the late 1970's. My friend and I camped out under the stars near Prospect, Oregon. At the time, Sasquatch was not on my mind and never considered them to exist. Around midnight, something woke me, and I looked up to see this head and shoulders peering over this 5' diameter fallen log. Out eyes locked and out of puzzlement I had no idea what this creature was until joining the forum years ago. When I tried to wake my wood cutting partner, the creature snuck off and vanished. The creature just stared and didn't seem scary so I was lucky. I will post a sketch of this creature later.

The snow typically hits the high country right around our Thanksgiving weekend (second Monday in October), and stays in the mountains till the end of May/early June. Thankfully, we only get a few weeks of it in the Fraser Valley, where I live. Over the winter, the mountains will accumulate 12 to 20 feet of snow, which all melts in May, raising the rivers to scary levels.

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=24667

Is BF the only apex predator in the world that is born with a fear of humans? To the point where they don't allow themselves to be seen/photographed by remote wildlife photographers and trail cams? Curiosity and/or acceptance has never gotten the best of them? Or just for habituators that refuse to take pics? Did I catch all of that correctly? If so...it's not SIMPLY an animal. There has to be another component...homo or something else.

The fact ARE on your side. The same facts are also on the side of my state fisheries and wildlife agency and most others. But they say that they aren't sure it doesn't exist (scientific null hypothesis). You must be smarter than they are, or at least better informed.

The small dot of water in the centre of the second photo is Kakawa Lake, just E of Hope, and the pointy peak in the third and fourth pics is Wells Peak, about 1500m elevation (roughly 5000')

We had a honey hole two miles out of town on private land that a herd would frequent during hunting season. Hunted there for about a decade and got some decent bulls... Then the elderly landowner leased out the land to a guy running cattle and he decided that we were no longer welcome. That was two years ago and nobody has gotten an elk since. Wolves have changed the elk's behavior and made them harder to hunt, along with impacting their numbers.

Hello, I am from Southern Indiana and have been documenting my local Sasquatch clan for three years. I joined the forum so I can help/learn from like minded people.

A few years ago, I was in Arizona exploring old mines with my trusty 100 lb Great Dane/Lab mix. I found a beautiful mine with a nice horizontal shaft and went in about 50' with my companion leading the way. Suddenly, he stopped and started backing out. I shined my light up ahead and the shaft was straight for about 100', then made a sharp bend to the left. I kept going forward and called to my buddy to stay with me. He reluctantly stayed just behind me. We approached the sharp bend when he had enough and headed for the exit. I shined my light around the corner and discovered a pile of javelina bones, then the mine continued about 8', then made another sharp bend to the left. I called out to my dog and he refused to return, so I got my pistol out and slowly made my way to the second sharp turn and shined my light around the corner. My light illuminated the largest badger I had ever seen, growling and reluctantly moving away deeper into the mine. I slowly backed out to safety and apologized profusely to my buddy for doubting him, lol.

Those "one glimpse" and sounds in the night are not really outlook-changing for me. Those are part of my outlook, always have been, except the first glimpse lasted at least 3-5 minutes and covered roughly 550-600 yards of total travel beginning more than 100 yards to my left, moving 75 yards in front of me, and continuing away for 400+ yards to my right before going out of sight. That's not a glimpse. It is plenty of time to ask yourself questions, to weigh what you are seeing. Oddly enough, despite all else, I can't report any bone-chilling cries. "Whatever." So, whether you choose to accept it for yourself or not, understand that <<for me>>, non-existence of bigfoot is no longer an option. I can't suggest it, I can't coddle it, not with any integrity whatsoever. At the same time, it is also clear Science does not accept the existence of bigfoot as reality. I'm a science guy .. despite all else. The apparent inconsistency disturbs me. Science SHOULD be able to find and validate the existence of bigfoot. I see only 2 options. Either the bigfoots have been astronomically lucky and the humans astronomically unlucky, or we're missing something in our understanding of science. And that latter should not be a surprise. When we talk about discovery of new species, new medicines, new sub-atomic particles, finding out that science was incomplete via the mechanism of discovering something new is almost commonplace. And yet when we consider bigfoot, suggesting that seems to be offensive. A challenge of dogma. So here's where I get in trouble by answering your question. Besides being a science guy, I am also a born-again Christian. A terrible one, worst example you'll ever meet, don't want your view of others tainted by what you know about me, but here I am, that's me. Mark Barton's interview goes into things that I have heard other places from other people though not in the same level of detail. Go back to the older posts here and read what ThePhaige shared. Consider parallels. Until I know what they are, from the standpoint of scientific proof, I have to consider other things they might be, things that science doesn't allow for right now. In this case, what amounts to being demonic entities. Being Christian does not remove my science bent. I have wondered if "demonic", "alien", and "interdimensional" could really be 3 different descriptions for the same thing, just viewed through different cultural understandings of "science" of the time. If that is the case, we could be in way over our heads. We might be assuming superiority over "these things" the same as we have intelligence superior to a raccoon and yet it might be role reversal, something so offensive to our ingrained sense of human superiority that we refuse to look at it. I'm not concerned about what happens out there in the woods. I'm concerned, to some small degree, about what might know me and follow me home, not in a physical sense, but in a metaphysical sense. What doors, what boxes, are we opening when we seek them out? What boundaries do we have to protect ourselves from something physically, and metaphysically, immeasurably mightier than ourselves? Understand ... if any of these notions are correct, are real, I believe that like everything else real, they operate by physical principles science CAN understand .. though it may not do so yet. Suggesting such things, hopefully I've offended the monkey hunters, the scientific establishment, the small minded, and the rest of the Christians all in the same post by putting ALL of the dogma I can think of on the table, including my own, and questioning every bit of it. Flame away ... But if you're thinking, not flaming, maybe you understand ... we do NOT know, and until we DO know what is, we also do not know what is not. Since what we know is failing at every turn, I think we better consider that something we do not know is in play. If wrong, we lose nothing but a little mental gear spinning, but if right, we might save ourselves from a lot of grief. Maybe even being 411-ed. MIB

No experience at all. My favorite area requires backpacking in. I've done it as a round trip day hike but it's pretty brutal. Climb 1700 feet in 3.5 miles, then back down 500 feet in a mile. Trail is pretty rough, big loose rocks, some places stairsteps in the rocks, plus it traps runoff so it continually gets carved deeper. There is another way in, not as steep, but a mile farther and more exposure to direct sun .. hotter. There is no chicken out option. If you're not well on your way back to the trailhead 2 hours before dark, you are committed to staying. The trail is bad enough that a twisted or even broken ankle in the dark is a real good possibility. If you buy the ticket, you have to ride the train. I've had two fairly terrifying experiences in there. We had bipedal visitors the very first night I was ever there, at least 3 of them, and I got introduced to infrasound. It sucks. And the last night I spent there, last summer, started pretty cool with an hour or so of light wood knocks coming from 30 feet or so away in the dark while I laid in my sleeping bag and bivy. It stopped being cool when "whatever it was" decided to leave. It was the most chilling, "alien", crazy sound I've heard in over 50 years in the woods. I thought I knew what was knocking, now I'm not sure. 7-1/2 miles back to the trailhead, in the dark, on a barely maintained trail .. nope, the die was cast, we had to stay and ride it out. Fortunately nothing further happened. MIB

Holding to that standard, there had never been any credible evidence of Bigfoot anywhere...and we are all just wasting our time. And actually, one of the biggest hindrances to the topic are people who give 'expert opinions' on a subject that had no experts. Listening to the NAWAC podcast, I was surprised at how many of their members on that episode had their first sightings in the Smokeys and the Georgia/Carolinas area.

Then neither are the LEO's or the Forestry Service personnel who are part of the historical report log? Hmmm. maybe you're the one who created the 22+ large nests in Mason County Washington? You know, years of breaking/twisting off and then weaving plant material without the benefit of any tools beyond your brute strength? I'd like to see your video of that. Oh wait......it's much easier to sit back and just strafe the community. Okay. I get it now

The Dennis Martin case can’t be your evidence.

I think the facts are on my side. Who cares about your personal feelings.

There has never been any credible evidence of a Bigfoot anywhere near Gatlinburg. Please bring it forth. You people think the animal is just camping out in your backyards. If it were just everywhere then there would have been a body by now. What other animal that large exists in every state in America? Just the one we can’t bring in? Come on you guys are smarter than that. Well maybe you aren’t and that’s part of the problem.

But no nests in Gatlinburg huh? Try to stay on topic.