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I can't believe that I am wading into this train wreck of a thread, but... I don't even comprehend what a lot of you are trying to propose. We want to get rid of the infighting and bickering in the community and become a united front...but, then immediately begin to talk about how a large segment of people immediately need to be shut out due to their theories. If you are just looking for flesh and blood, no-kill folks who are going to actually do anything more than the usual wood knock, howl, 'let's leave a bag of marbles on this stump'...then rinse and repeat...good luck. If someone wants to actually put a body on the slab and prove it, or if they have had any other strange things happen to them while they were in the field...take a hike. That's unity all right. I have just skimmed through this thread, but so far the ideas seem to go like this...well funded, organized teams in the field spending extended periods of time conducting research. Established professionals in the scientific community who back the investigation who are committed to the search for Bigfoot. Almost everyone who is involved in this has to fund it out of their own pockets and have to balance their field time with the demands of real life. I am out more often than many other people...and it is a part time pursuit for me by necessity. I guess that I could all in and end up living in a shack like Dahinden, but I guess that I am not that dedicated to the cause. Short of getting that mythical deep pocket patron who wants to set you up with equipment and then pay you a stipend for looking for Sasquatch...the only way to devote yourself full time to this sort of thing is to make it self funding. Heaven forbid that someone tries that, because then they are going to be attacked as 'selling out'. Write a book, make a podcast, star in a show...and this forum will freaking release the hounds and go after you. I understand that I am saying this on a forum of grown men (and women) who devote a large percentage of their time to the study and pursuit of something that the general public doesn't believe exists...but, I have to wonder how much of this stuff is based in reality as opposed to some sort of live action role play type of fantasy. It's the same thing that we saw in the thread where we were discussing a possible BFF youtube channel. Things immediately went out of the realm of actual possibility into this weird sort of fantasy land. 'Hey, let's each shoot a clip and then cut them together into a single video to showcase the field investigators on the forum'. That somehow morphed into livestreams from the woods (who has signal out there?), celebrity hosts, etc. It's like it is just a fantasy to indulge yourself in as opposed to building something that might actually be possible. Same thing with the eDNA thread. Lots of conjecture and grandiose plans, but nothing actionable ever came of it...because it got too complicated. Here's an eDNA plan. Get a group of people in different areas around the country who agree to follow established and agreed upon eDNA collection procedures and commit to gathering possible samples for study. Find a lab who is open to testing the samples. Determine the price and then determine if we have the resources. If the resources are available, the members involved then collect samples as they are able and then the samples are sent in for testing. The results are shared openly with the forum. Bam. Done. There's your plan. From the what I can make out, a lot of the discussion here is how can the members of this forum work together to strategically to bring us closer to discovery. To some degree, it already does that. At least it does for me. I communicate with a handful of other field researchers who I would not have otherwise connected with. We bounce ideas off of one another, give each other recommendations for equipment or practices in the field. Skinwalker has been a wellspring of knowledge...especially in the area of casting. Of course, this communication takes place via messages as opposed to open discussion on the forum, but that is due to necessity. The reality of the situation is...we have a handful of people who are involved in a varying degrees of field research or the categorization and recording of data related to the phenomena. We are scattered across North America and few if any of us are able to devote long periods of time in the field in different parts of the country. We are not going to fund any groups of researchers to be in the field for any length of time. Unless some of you have been holding out on sharing it, we don't have any billionaires as members here. We are not going to collectively convince any scientists that Bigfoot exists...not with a letter writing campaign and honestly not with some poop in a plastic bag that might come back as having human DNA in it and as a result be immediately labeled as tainted. Scientists are paid to do science...and unless their employer is paying them to look into Bigfoot, then the best that we can hope for is that an occasional one will have some personal interest in the topic and will utilize some of their personal expertise and resources to look into it. We are not going to set up elaborate, expensive operations. It's just not going to happen. If you think so, please refer to the Youtube thread that I referenced earlier. Here. You want a plan to utilize the resources of this forum to advance the search for Sasquatch? Encourage communication and the sharing of information between the members here who are actively involved in field research. Set up a reporting function independent of the BFRO where witnesses can inform us of recent sightings. Gigantor has already started this. The BFF is an established entity that doesn't take full advantage of its name recognition in the field. Take advantage of it and have this be an alternative to the BFRO or some crappy Bigfoot Facebook page. Establish which researchers are available for each region to possibly investigate those sightings. Have those researchers share the results of their investigation here with their peers. Each researcher is still independent and does not need to conform to one single style of investigation or even one single belief in the origin of the phenomenon. If funding is available, use it strategically on projects that will give us the most bang for our buck...like the eDNA testing or the Researcher of the Year contest...knowing that those projects may only enable the eventual discovery as opposed to some sort of Bigfoot proof silver bullet. When those projects are decided upon by the forum, put volunteer members in charge of the planning and execution. We always seem to suffer from all chiefs, no Indians. Keep it simple. All of these things are doable. All of these things are realistic. They are not as glamorous as some of the ideas floated here and will more than likely not result in some sort of immediate acceptance or proof of the phenomenon. But, they are REALISTIC.

Just got back from driving my son in law out to his buddies Turkey camp by Trout Lake. I snapped a pic! He works at the local lumber mill and gets fri-sat off.

A good method might be using a call mimicking a deer in distress to try and draw a Bigfoot in. An armed researcher in a deer stand can than do what needs to be done to acquire a type specimen. There are many things that we do not know about this species. But there have been a number of reliable reports which indicate that deer are certainly on the Bigfoot menu.

Exactly. Like I said before, if someone brings in a specimen...does it really matter if they were out looking for an ape or an alien...as long as we one on the end. once one is examined, we’ll all know for sure then. Before we have one, arguing over theory or origin is somewhat putting the cart before the horse.

Be my guest. There are a number of folks here that have expressed fear about doing that kind of thing. That's okay, I get that. My own , experience didn't elicit anything of the sort. no ominous overtones, no cautiously veiled warnings or hinted at threats. And why would there be. I think they were happy that their "inquisitor" moved on though What did I get out of it? A biologist now knows me and my name. Who knows, we may speak again. He did say that the agency would investigate any credible evidence which brings me to why I pursued the official avenue. It was to narrow down my search options by getting a feel for policy at the "top." The result, as an allegory, is I don't have to sense that I'm searching a 1,000 sq. mi. area of Bigfoot world. The F&W inquiry allowed me to become less curious about an official stance and freed me to work harder toward getting that credible evidence he as a biologist and an active member of the agency would want. And I'm doing that with the intention of bringing the biologist in should I get that evidence. And it ALSO has given me the encouragement to find independent scientists interested in the subject. I mean, we have scientists, yes, but I'm seeing a movement among young scientists that looks encouraging. There's a zooloigist that I have corresponded with who had an encounter in their teens, kept it quiet, and brought it up at a family gathering when in their twenties. The result? They found out that their grandfather, who had also kept quiet, had an encounter or two himself. This is good stuff folks and it why I'm so encouraged to move forward and show support for such scientists. It isn't just a whim, it's something that I have been actively working at ever since the DNA soil samples came out from under the first nest find in Washington state. In truth, I am NOT no-kill, I just think that there are other ways to tackle the Sasquatch issue and still help science get what science wants. But that's me. If others feel the same way then great. Collectively, and if done correctly, we might be able to throw our weight toward science and specific scientists whose disciplines are in fields relative to our own. And that has been my bigger overall plan along with the reasoning behind its existence.

I understand what you guys are trying to say...but, a primatologist is going to come back with the facts that no other known primate emits infrasound... nor do higher primates have a tapetum lucidum, which is the go to explanation for the glowing eyes. To them, your claims of infrasound are as impossible as others claims of the paranormal are to you. I just don’t understand how we don’t have one of these things in captivity or a body to study...and everyone seems to think that they have it all figured out...that their theories are good to go while something that sounds more outlandish is totally off the reservation and impossible. You guys are preaching for unity in the field ...but immediately start denigrating those who might not be so hidebound in their ideas of this undiscovered, seemingly uncatchable giant hair covered being in the woods. No one knows for certain what these things are. Period. End of discussion. I know that a lot of people get into this field because they can portray themselves as experts about an undiscovered mystery creature, but you guys are feeding into the exact same division that you are claiming to be against with these woo bs. I that’s the way that the forum wants to go, so be it. Kill off the paranormal and UAP forums and develop a litmus test for new members to make sure that they are not guilty of Bigfoot wrongthink before allowing them access.

first off, let me say that I appreciate your opinion and the respectful way that you have presented it. If that exclusion is the goal, then I and a few other researchers on here who are regular posters might as well excuse ourselves from the forum. Where is the line drawn between pure f&b and a paranormalist? And who determines it? We have members here who have experienced what they believe to be mind speak...and not in the overly detailed larping fantasy way...what seems like actual messages that didn’t appear to be their own. They are confused by it but it actually seemed to happen. I and a couple of other members have seen strange lights and orbs in areas where we found prints or other possible signs of Sasquatch. Is that in the realm of the paranormal? How about the effects that are usually explained away by infrasound? Self illuminating eyes? Where’s the boundary? How about someone like me who is honest with himself and others and is not completely sold on what these things might be? I think that these things are relic hominids, but I don’t know for sure. I am not trying to push an agenda and I don’t cherry pick the accounts that back up my worldview and Ignore those that don’t. Regardless of what they are, there is some weird stuff that goes hand in hand with them. I don’t have an explanation for it, and if admitting that means that this forum isn’t a place for me then so be it. At this point, I would almost rather interact with someone who thinks that these things are inter dimensional but has a logical , questioning approach to it as opposed to a pure flesh and blooder who claims have all of the answers and wants me to look at blurry pictures of the treeline and play “Where’s the Wildman”. I don’t understand this belief that if we just purge out the ‘crazies’ that establishment science is going to embrace the topic and those of us who are left. Let me share a secret with some of you.... they think that all of us are crazy...be it apes, relic hominids, or something that just jumped out of it portal. The only thing that is going to sway their opinion is going to be tangible, undeniable proof. Something so in your face and delivered so publicly that it can’t be denied or covered up. Not pleas to be taken seriously because you’re one of the ‘good ones’. As we all know, there are a handful of actual scientists who openly state their belief in Sasquatch...and the are raked over the coals by their peers. But, we think that ‘citizen scientists’ or amateurs are going to be received any better? And if someone is able to actually deliver that proof, it isn’t going to make a lick of difference if they think that they shot a monkey, a demon, or something from Planet X...as long as that proof in on the table.

So being the new guy here and could care less what anyone thinks I have a few questions. Please don't take these inquiries with any emotion. They are just words. 1. What is a Sasquatch "expert"? 2. Who can talk about Sasquatch behavior if they've never seen one? 3. Has anyone ever examined the actual foundation of this so-called "Bigfoot community"? 4. Why is there a desire or the field to need to prove anything to the public? 5. Human beings have come up with the tree knocking, whooping and other stimuli to these beings but is it is it really valid? 6. The Sasquatch is a people and yet Humans seem to think they are an animal or an ape like species that is below the human race. Why is that? 7. Lastly why are the personal attacks? I understand the bad blood but this unity call that I am reading notches here but everywhere in this community specifically starts with people realizing they don't know jack **** about these beings. I understand this list is going to **** people off or rub somebody the wrong way but again these are just questions I am asking I'm not trying to form an opinion or judge anybody. I spent six days in a place and had a list of experiences with these beings that some people take 10 if not 20 years to experience. It pretty much overloaded my mind with trying to comprehend what and why. That's why I'm here. These beings only show themselves to humans they believe they can trust. I know this for fact because of the behavior that I experience from them. First Nations people know exactly what these beings are and how they behave. If you're looking for experts those folks know the answers. Every time evidence is brought forward and shown some "expert" comes out and says it's false and fake. The obvious hoaxes are easy to figure out but I don't think we need any scientist or alleged expert to tell us what's going on. In fact a lot of the big names in the researcher community have never had an encounter. You go out in the woods you experienced something you don't know what it is you use your brain to try to figure it out. You ask questions of others and try to develop answers. You can feel what the truth is. That's just my thoughts anyway. I think all of us have a common bond for a direction of where these issues should go but fighting about it is a waste of time. This is my opinion and my opinion only take it for what its worth. IMG_1151.MP4

FWIW - I did not help write the book, nor have I read it, nor will I ever read it. I will also not demand that everybody, or anybody do what I do, or work toward any of my goals. My goal was to see one, and I succeeded. Now my goal is to see another. The hard part is done, because now I know where to look. "Science" would not like my approach anyway.

The documentary is on Amazon streaming, maybe YT as well. It's called Operation Nightscream 2003

I think so. Seems to me John Freitas has done that around the Bluff Creek area, Six Rivers National Forest. He's done as much call blasting, with all kinds of sounds, trying to get / record a response, as anyone I can think of. MIB

+1. Though I remain no-kill, I believe if proving existence is the foremost consideration, you are correct regarding approach. MIB

I honestly think the best approach is to simply leave the house prepared. Go about your day packing iron. Most reports are just that, humans going about their day. If your going hunting, fishing, prospecting, berry picking, checking livestock, wood cutting? Go prepared. If enough of us simply change our mindset and goals? It’s a game of odds. And the lotto numbers are gonna come up.

Yes. There was a some of that done in earlier days. Also trying scents, pheromones, etc. I'm going to argue with myself here ... one thing we might consider is going back to the "bigfoot research history books" and look at things that turned up potential results in the farther past but have not been tried recently, tricks up our sleeves "they" might have forgotten about. I dunno, wild guess here. Maybe if we mix those older, forgotten things, but put in a new twist, we could change the result. I think most researchers have moved from ape camp to expecting something more intelligent. If we assume the earlier attempts failed because we somehow underestimated the BFs, maybe if we mix the roots of those attempts with the greater subtlety that (hopefully) comes with today's understanding, we could success where we failed in the past. One of the things I'm looking for is not just evolution of approach (which can be anticipated) but revolution of approach ... a leap forward. Maybe combining old / now overlooked ideas with modern capability / understanding would do the trick. For me, this is worth considering so .. thanks for the inspiration. MIB

Well said. Killing type specimen is an option, but it certainly should be an absolute last resort.

That is probably the most practical method to acquiring a type specimen. Ideally the deer stand should be situated near a known trackway or sighting area. I would say a Weatherby .300 Magnum would be sufficient to take down an 800lb + primate.

This is a public service announcement to the Bigfoot community. "Hi my name is @Daniel Perez, you might remember me from episode 93 of the Cliff and Bobo podcast. I'm publisher of Bigfoot Times, the longest running hard copy Bigfoot publication for fans and investigators. I'd like to talk to you about Bigfoot evidence. The community needs your help to identify the Bigfoot species through scientific means. We all know the challenges with this. If you or someone you know is experiencing Bigfoot activity on their rural property, we're asking you to participate in biological evidence collection efforts. You won't often find Bigfoot blood but you are likely to find scat and residual oils from anywhere Bigfoot has touched. It is critical that we capture this evidence properly and in a timely manner. We've created an app to help guide you through the process all the way through sending it off as a hazmat packet to our contracted lab who will test the samples for DNA matches with other samples we have received. Together, we'll solve the mystery of Bigfoot. Frankly, we can't doo doo this without you"

I'd also recommend HECS, just to help further eliminate/mask your presence from them...if it works, I've heard conflicting things.

I agree, no one can be certain, but I think Norse said it well earlier. Is this really our job? Why don't we secure the species validation first and let science do the rest? Let's prove to them it exists and let the real scientists do their work. I'm not in the camp that science is covering this up, the Government maybe, but off the spotlight there are accounts of many scientists that are truly open minded to the existence of this species, it's just that the culture pressures them to not talk about it. I think we should be focusing our efforts to hunt down and kill a specimen so we can get this bloody thing over with. No pun intended haha

Right. It is a logical solution. It is a F&B solution. It is the one I embrace more than any other. But it is not proven. Rather than homing in on only one of the possible answers and putting all our eggs in that single basket, I think it is "better" to keep all of the possibilities not contradicting significant bodies of evidence on the table for further consideration. I believe part of our problem is one or more of our most carefully held assumptions is wrong throwing us off the trail. We're not finding what we're looking for because what we think we're looking for isn't what actually exists. Basically I suspect we drove to the lake to fish but we've put our lines out in the parking lot rather than in the water where the fish are .. and we don't know it. MIB

You're not supposed to notice that.

So you are saying you are a Bigfoot expert?

1) There is no such thing. We are all grasping for straws. 2) I’ve never seen one but I’ve seen a trackway. I’m not sure how people who get fleeting glimpses of one think they have all the answers? Unless your Jane Goodall spending years with a species? Your very limited. 3) Explain? 4) 411 books? Are there people being kidnapped or preyed upon unsuspectingly? Endangered species act? Grizzly Bears and Wolves are success stories. Human knowledge and science? What could a fellow bipedal species tell us about our origins? It baffles me WHY people would ask this question. It’s a very misanthropic point of view. 5) I don’t put stock in it. I chose other stimuli. 6) Because they do not exhibit fire or tool use? Because they don’t build cities and we hide in the deep forest? Obviously they are a close relative. Are they Homo Sapien? No. I don’t have any friends that are 8 feet tall and sleep in the Rocky Mountains in the middle of winter with no fire or blanket. I’ve never thought Patty looked like a human. Close! But not human. Or Homo Sapien. The problem with Native American accounts? Is they either don’t line up tribe to tribe or they focus on one behavior or even gender. And then of course the mysticism. Coyote is the trickster and creator. Nothing against any of it. But it’s not a scientific nut and bolts approach to the subject even if some wisdom can be gleaned from it. Whats the gestation period of a Sasquatch? When are offspring weaned? What is the age of adulthood? Where does it’s DNA fall on the tree of life? Unfortunately until the species is proven to science? These answers and thousand more questions will never be answered. I don’t take anything you said personal. And I hope you extend the same to me.

Well said sir

Hello there, mooseman. We've been chatting recently on Sasquatch BC (I'm Sawone over there), so it's nice to see you over here, too.

Cool looking area norseman. Here's a glmpse of where I hang out in the fall. Well, last fall anyway. https://imgur.com/a/hAcaMVn

The reality of the situation is, if these creatures even actually exist, they are extremely rare and elusive with above average smarts. Even getting a quick glimpse of one is hard to do. Basically we are looking for a needle in a haystack the size of North America, so it's going to be extremely difficult to prove their existence since DNA, meaning a body or part of a body is the only thing that will do it. The odds are extremely high against it happening. Only one thing achieve the ultimate goal, that is getting out there in the woods and trying to bring that DNA in. Hopefully someone will get lucky and find that proof, but we also have to realize it might not happen ever or in our lifetime. One thing is, there are more people now looking than ever before, with more knowledge and equipment to do the job so the odds are improving. We just all have to keep grinding it out and trying a novel approach never hurts, but what it comes down to is everyone's aim and ultimate goal has to be is bringing in a specimin.

And that has been my plan all along. It has taken me nearly two years to get it off the ground between lab contacts, finding scientists who will listen that are already interested in the subject. That's what I've been doing and it has taken a big chunk out of my time and life. But because a lot of it is sensitive and reputations ore involved I have played thing close to my chest. As a result, I look like some fanatic and have become persona non gratis n the eyes of many. And I couldn't care one whit less about it because this isn't about me and never has been. I've done the work, things are in place, I have quietly funded myself and have endured what certain members of this Forum have thrown at me for a long, long time. Any campaign like that would only entail letting INTERESTED scientists, those already wanting to investigate the phenomenon, that we support them, that they have what amounts to a fan club of sorts as a way of encouraging them to keep going. I have said this also. I have encouraged folks to contact their local universities with a zoology or genetics department and ask for a meeting then explain that as unlikely as it might be would they be willing to test any samples. That would keep things local and accessible to the researher. Some academics may even run someone's samples alog with others at no charge because they're already ALWAYS running samples. Really like your post, BRB, maybe members will listen to you even if they won't listen to me. It's the same message overall but.....well....thank you.

Here we go, finnaly got the video finished for the wineberry site investigation. Follow the link below if you want to check it out! https://youtu.be/yRtPygAd5Kg

You seem like a great person, but there is a-lot wrong with your statement. First and foremost? Many researchers are NOT trying to prove the creatures existence! Secondly? We already have ZERO credibility with science. Just with the foot cast, PGF crowd.... Let alone the portal woo crowd. Lastly? 99% of the the BF crowd are anti kill. The mindset is that the weight of reports and trace evidence will slowly destroy the bias of the scientific community. More foot casts, more audio, more reports. The PGF is what? 50 plus years old! Science has never wavered on it requiring physical evidence!!! So? We as a community can either accept that and take it on as our goal? Or we continue casting foot casts and recording whoops in the night. And then bitching about why science wont accept our evidence! How many of us are working with a genetic lab? Scientists on speed dial? Biologists? Anthropologists? How many of us own a rifle, a knife and a 4x4? Leave the ultra whiz bang sciency stuff to the scientists. Most of us dont even truly understand what we are talking about when it comes to genetics! How was the Bili ape discovered? Through the bush meat trade! Yes call it pitchforks and torches if you like? Its the reality of the situation. If your goal is to discover a new species of primate in north America. If you have helicopters, and net cannons and an army of geneticists at your beck and call? Then obviously you have more options on your plate than the layman Bigfooter.... So I guess we can just continue to act cool and tiptoe around the issue while using cool sounding words? Or we can hit the woods and roll up our shirt sleeves and prepare to get dirty. I know which i prefer...

You don't seem to mind derailing other folks threads, like you did here. All you ever do is stamp your feet and demand Bigfoot be discovered and accuse others of having ulterior motives. I don't recall you ever doing so much as post an interesting photo or video.

What a condescending crappy thing to say. I do. But not for hair or scat. You want a lab find one in your area, try the WSU. The hair/scat dance has all been done before and what was the outcome? ANY outcome. I pick my spots carefully and will not cry wolf to a lab. Now quit the snarky attitude. What is it with you guys, you're so danged angry. Isn't this thread dead enough for you? More condescension. Is that all you got? You keep harping in that but you didn't help me write anything. I don't know WHERE in you head that you think you did. A long time ago you talked about the right gun to use but that was in normal internet conversation and you were actually speaking to someone else at the time. I thought it was good information and when came to writing the book I put the information in it. YOU, SIR, did not help me write anything so lose that thought. You were NEVER a part of that process. Truth, norseman. The absolute truth, and now it's on record. I didn't say anything before but I sure as hell should have. Now you know, and so does everyone else.

No, it isn't. I need to clear this up once and for all. You need to admit, publicly, didn't write one word of that book! Not one measly word. The reason I waited to post it on this Forum was that I didn't have a way other than direct mailing to get it into a reader's hands outside of an eBook. It takes money to self publish without financial support but I wasn't about to be beholding to anyone on that front. ISBN number, barcode, copyrighting, Library of Congress....all of that took time and money before going public. THAT'S why I waited. Lots of people knew about the book ahead of time, Norseman, you didn't hav some insider track on that. BobbyO knew about it and a few others. People knew it was coming. YES! you shared information!!! But so did lot of people and no one is stamping their feet saying they helped me write the book. I mean how do people write books? They gather information whether it be for fiction or non-fiction writing. I joined a caving Forum to learn about caves and bats. I went on an equestrian Forum to learn about a horse's body language. I researches night vision, thermal imagers, and Bigfoot's characteristics and mannerisms. There's a member here who rarely if ever posts anymore. A first person Class A report. It's the only report in the book. I wrote a heck of a lot more about that encounter than I did about what kind of gun to use. But that member doesn't run around an throw it in my face that they helped write the book!!! Good grief, you make it sound like you co-wrote the thing when as I said you didn't write one word of it. And lots of people encouraged me to g public including my sons, not just you. You want credit as a source? Fine get in line with all the other sources that I tapped for information. You'll be in good company because none of them wrote one word of the book either. So, lose that thought, it took research, information from lots of folks, lots of websites, and lots of articles to write that little 88 page book. Your claim of helping me write it is hubris and a sham. And you've used that twisted conclusion more than one to try and guilt me about something or other by bringing up the point. So, to clear the air, did you help me write it? NO! Did you offer information for it? YES. You and a bunch of others. ANY and ALL writing, decision making on when to go public, and how, was all on me. None of the above is a lie. I've never been a liar on this Forum and never will be. This post is the truth, ALL of it, and I will say no more....Period-end of story.