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Oh, I won't sugarcoat it at all... Let's go point by point. "Ah, I see. Leave everything up to one person. Make sure they stay isolated and without any help from the community." What am I leaving up to one person? I am supposed to stop my own pursuits in the interest of furthering yours and Wooly's? Let's pursue this avenue for a moment. What is your pursuit, exactly? Because I see vague statements made, with no concrete plans for whatever you guys want to be accomplished. What are you wanting to do, exactly? A letter writing campaign? What is the address for the home office of the scientific community? What are we supposed to say? "Dear scientific community, We insist that you begin to take the subject of Bigfoot seriously. Here is a list of our demands. Signed, Some Guys From The Internet." I try to be pragmatic...or at least as pragmatic as someone who spends most of their free time looking for things that are not supposed to exist can be, I guess. Mainstream scientific acceptance would be great. But, if someone like Jeff Meldrum hasn't had any luck, then what am I supposed to do? He is a leading figure in his field. He is able to provide evidence and hypothesis. He is still relegated to sideshow status outside of the Bigfoot community when he brings up Sasquatch. "Members like Wooly Booger and I get turned into the bad guys for wanting the truth to become public. And I've seen every excuse in the book for why Sasquatch won't be discovered." We are going to change the narrative through sheer force of numbers? Our voices will be heard? Well, what sort of numbers are we going to have after we get everyone that we don't agree with out of the community? "You had equipment mysteriously drain of power? You saw strange lights immediately before finding tracks? Get the .... out of here!" So, a couple of hundred people are going to change the narrative? A couple of hundred people... who are unwilling to be adaptable and think outside of the box as far as their own beliefs on the subject go, but are going to demand that millions of others change their own beliefs? Just on their say so? A lot of you are unwilling to entertain even the remote possibility that there might be more to the subject than what you currently believe...but you expect the general public to do so? You know what? I think that a lot of the stranger stuff just seems unbelievable. But, I thought that UFOs were an interesting sideshow until recently. It goes to show that normalcy bias can get all of us. I have had some low level weird stuff go on when I am out looking for Bigfoot. Nothing major like others have reported. But, enough to convince me that something else is going on out there...and while it may not be directly related to Bigfoot it sure as heck is occurring in close proximity. I am supposed to shut up about that...because we are trying to impress the scientists here! No one thinks that you are bad guys. Take whatever approach that you see fit. The only thing that I take issue with is the purity test that some of you seem to want to impose...nothing says 'we all need to work together' like spending your time going after those who think differently than you. I think that gifting is kind of nonsensical, but someone's efforts at it have no bearing on my own. The narrative isn't going to change organically. It isn't going to change because we want it to or because we demand it. It is going to change when a total paradigm shifting event or piece of evidence comes about...like a body or government acknowledgement. I know that the topic of Bigfoot is very central to the lives and thoughts to most people on this forum...but, just try and step outside of yourself for a second. Look at the subject as a person who doesn't know or believe... There are very few degrees of separation between their views of a person who thinks that Bigfoot is an undiscovered ape and someone who is full blown woo. They just think that we are varying degrees of crazy. "I would say that Wooly Booger is a respected member of the scientific community who would like public discovery. Let the Forum know why you don't give two hoots. Try not to sugar it up too much, okay?" OK. If he is a well respected member of the scientific community...then why isn't he out there convincing his peers? I honestly wish him all the best. Wooly, I don't agree with your instant dismissal of anything that you don't agree with...but, I hope that you get more of your peers to look into the topic. If you think that a couple of housewives talking on Facebook about the Sasquatch who pop out of portals and live in their garden is really what is keeping the scientific community from taking it seriously...well, you may need to change your approach, because you are not going to be able to control people's beliefs and conversation on the subject. Also, I appreciate your ideas. Get out there and use the archaeological method to look for remains and evidence. Meanwhile, this guy is going to be out there leaving marbles on a stump, this dude is going to be posted up with a rifle, and this lady is going to be running around with dowsing rods or whatever they do. Someone taking a different approach to your own shouldn't affect your own pursuits. A holistic approach isn't going to hurt anyone. As far as not giving two hoots about public discovery...I would love to see public discovery. If you meant 'scientific acceptance', then yeah...you are kind of right. I really don't give two hoots, just like I don't really give two hoots that the sun will explode in 5 billion years. I don't give two hoots because it is outside of my realm of influence and there is nothing that I can currently do to change it...short of doing what I am already doing. If you think that there is something concrete and actionable, please let me know. No vague protestations about what people are not doing. If you have an idea, then let's hear it. I can appreciate your frustration on the current state of things, but spend that energy on something actionable, not windmills.

BRB, kindly know that you're doing what few people can or would do. You are dedicated to the task at hand and are tenacious in that pursuit. You're going up and over mountains with a heavy backpack when you could be home staring at a computer screen while nibbling on a cookie. You're fording streams and enduring rain storms when you could be home and have your feet up reading a book about sasquatch. You're trying to stay warm on cold nights in front of a fire while you could be home and simply turn up the thermostat. You're sleeping in a small tent, on a small air mattress, warmed only by the sleeping bag you carried in, when you could be home retire at night on your featherbed. You keep your eyes on the prize and persevere when others would have long ago chosen to trudge home, defeated, like Napoleon returning from Russia. It takes a special person to get up early when its still dark, go out and brave the elements, risk injury, and muster the energy to continue on. To always continue on. You're not delusional at all. You're an explorer in the purest sense of the word. Keep up the great work you're doing as it will produce results, you'll have lots of fun, and your adventures will create endless stories and memories in the process. Keep the faith.

Untrue. That is the ideal, not the reality. There is a difference between big-s "Science" and little-s "science". What you are describing is little-s "science", the process, but what we are confronted with is big-s "Science", the institutions and their priests we call "Scientists." It is pretty clear that in this instance they are more interested in preserving the current belief paradigm than they are in exploring / seeking new knowledge. That makes them priests of a religion, not scientists. There is no such thing as settled science, that makes it religion, dogma which cannot, by "rule", be examined by scientific processes else the person doing the examining is a heretic to the religion. I am in the camp with Huntster ... I just want to see (another) one, this time for a longer period with time to study. I'm not interested in trying to shove proof down the throats of people who wish not to accept existence. That has never been one of my needs. MIB

You seem be in doubt as to what this creature is, but your doubt is unnecessary since all of the available evidence suggests that Bigfoot is an unclassified species of primate. What you and certain others fail to understand is that by bringing woo into the subject they are making it all but impossible for Bigfoot research to attain scientific respectability. This wasn't always the case. If you are at all familiar with the history of zoological discovery, and I think that you are, then you are undoubtedly aware that the search for and discovery of new animal species has traditionally been a well respected and important branch of zoology. Heck, in the late 19th and early 20th centuries there were even hunts in Africa for living dinosaurs. Bigfoot should be no exception. It is a primate, either ape or hominid. It is not an ET, shapershifter, interdimensional being or any other fairy tale hokis pokis. Fringe researchers epitomized by the work of people like Nick Redfern are a scourge to our subject and a major stumbling block to our gaining the support of science. I honestly applaud your efforts in the field BRB. Really I do. You have devoted all of your free time to the subject and have spent countless hours in the field. I wish you the best of luck my friend, and I hope you make your discovery. I hope to, some day soon, have both the time and luxury to devote nearly as much time in the field as you have. Your hard work and efforts are truly admirable.

I applaud your efforts and ingenuity and agree that eDNA will likely be the road to discovery. That said, not everyone's mission is the same as yours. My sole purpose is, and has always been, getting a sighting or having an encounter. Nothing else matters to me. Nothing. Not eDNA nor evidence collection for submission to a lab. For me, that will only come after I get that sighting. Are my pursuits deeply selfish and not geared toward a broader purpose? No need to plea the Fifth as that would be a resounding yes. Am I unwilling to devote efforts to further the discovery? At this point, I'll shout yes from the highest treetop. I suspect I am not alone in this regard. I wish you all the best in your endeavors with eDNA and hope they reap rewards. I really do. Until my interests are satisfied, I will continue to spend all of my time and efforts out in the forest looking for a sasquatch. I just finished lacing my boots and am headed out for an overnight in one of my areas of interest.

Then I suppose you have both a vested interest and a responsibility in discovery. I don't.

A mild logic would say that since one cannot tell if they are endangered then one also cannot tell if they are not endangered, apex or otherwise? It may be more prudent to err on the side that they are endangered just to cover all the bases. Granted that sets up the pressure of an unknown timeline regarding extinction, but it's probably better to do that than just walk away.

If you study the people on this forum who have been posting the "woo" over the past 20 years, you might "discover" that they universally don't want "discovery".

No hard feelings. And I also apologize for coming across as condescending and demeaning. That has never been my intent, it is simply how I sometimes present myself when I have a strong position on the subject. My intent isn't to insult and belittle those who have had certain experiences. It is simply to look at those experiences through the prism of hard science in order to attempt to arrive at a hypothesis as to what some people have been experiencing with these creatures.

So that would have been enough to build a snowman?

I see the "science" thing very differently. The scientific process is sound, but the process itself appears to be on hold waiting for a Justin Smeja type or a logging truck (which are dying off faster than sasquatches and the Smeja types) to provide a better chunk of meat. The real debate, as far as "science" (as an industry or ideology) is concerned, isn't about what a sasquatch is, but whether a sasquatch is at all. After "discovery", a "scientist" (or newly formed herd of them) will pop up like weeds in an urban park to let us all know that sasquatches exist after all, then will modify all knowledge about mankind from Creation to the new, glorious day. Now, who this "scientist" is and where he/she currently is remains a mystery more difficult to unravel than the mystery surrounding sasquatches. My position? Based upon ALL the "scientific" evidence (fossils, footprints, photographs, motion pictures, testimony), I know that sasquatch type creatures existed in the past, and I believe that a small number of the remained in various parts of the world until at least recently if not to this very day. As an outdoor enthusiast, I would love to observe one in the wild. I have theories (which have evolved dramatically over the past 55 years) about what these creatures are taxonomically, but at this point, that's all speculation. I have no responsibility whatsoever to prove their current existence to anybody, and I have no desire to do so. Others are free to kill one, capture one, photograph them, speak to them, mindspeak to them, share a smoke or pancake with them,........whatever. I really don't care.

“Face the facts, the only way to peak the interest of the scientific community is to present a well-researched flesh and blood hypothesis that Bigfoot as an unclassified species of primate.” Let me know how that works out for you, and let the forum know how many well respected members of the scientific community you are able to sway with your hypothesis. “But neither does the Tardis brigade and other assorted space cadets tromping around the forest with electromagnetic antennas chasing after ET and portals.” Statements like this are why we find ourselves at opposite ends of the discussion in most threads…I believe that Bigfoot is a relic hominid, but I also believe that I don’t know everything under the sun and that the world is a stranger place than many realize. I don’t dismiss and insult those who have claimed stranger encounters than could be explained by a simple undiscovered ape. Some respected members of this forum (who have been involved in active field research far longer than I) have some personal accounts of activity that can’t be explained away by the presence of an undiscovered ape. Am I saying that these things are coming out of portals to stop global warming and bring world peace? No, I am not. I don’t know what is going on. Honestly, it seems very hard for me to logically accept…but, it seems to be happening. The whole idea of a huge undiscovered primate is hard to believe for most people when you get right down to it… Until very recently, a lot of people said similar things like your Tardis quote above about the UAP phenomenon…only to find themselves on the wrong side of the growing evidence. If the IDH ends up being the most likely explanation, then that opens up the possibility that a lot of things that have been dismissed as sheer lunacy might very well have happened. Skinwalker Ranch as an example.

I'm not interested in discovery. That's for "scientists", not me. I'm an outdoorsman. I like my guns, knives, tents, Argo, snowmobile, camper, etc because I use them regularly for hunting, fishing, and exploring. Not me. I still haven't finished building a footprint casting kit, but I have toyed with the idea of doing so to cast prints from big bears, not sasquatches. Nuthin. I'm cheerfully "copping out" with the tired old mantra of wanting to see one for myself. I stumbled upon a track way 49 years ago, and have never seen hide nor hair of sign ever again despite a full life of working and playing in the wilderness. Do you think I'm going to waste effort and money trying to prove the existence of a ghost that "science" has repeatedly proven they don't care about? I'm simply not that stupid. That ain't happening with me, either. I'm the guy who is always armed. I'm sitting in my camper right now at fish camp on the beach at Kas Kasilof with a rifke within reach. If a sadquatch jumps out, I will not be shooting at it.

We have taken the past month off, but otherwise we are out every week with our ‘knives, guns, and gear’. Maybe we are just dumb rednecks with delusions of being capable of ‘scientific discovery’, but we are among the very few in this region who do anything beyond going to a comfortable camp ground to pose for Facebook photos in our adventurer gear or walking along well trodden paths trying to catch images of Sasquatch on shaky back cams. As far as the DNA aspect goes… what happened with the eDNA project that was proposed here? Absolutely nothing, that’s what. And why would it? Almost every conversation here nowadays gets derailed by a handful of members who have to spew their bitterness about any subject. They either hate the parties involved or the topic doesn’t fit with some ill defined scientific standard. It’s a peculiarity of the Bigfoot world that people who seem to hate so much of it become so involved with the discussion of it. But, that’s ok. There are still some conversations going on behind the scenes here concerning possible plans for DNA samples and how they might be properly handled. Why on earth would those involved discuss it publicly here? Look at how this thread on the Smeja shooting has gone. The constant negativity and know-it-all’s have simply driven the conversation to private message. Who knows? Maybe that was their goal all along?

Im gonna appeal to the stomach primarily. But I may download a few Sas vocals. A little morbid but maybe even try a baby crying. Which actually a dying rabbit call is close.

What are you gonna play on it Norse ? Just the pre-loaded stuff or are you gonna look for what is thought to be Sas vocalizations to load on to it ?

Science isn't "the enemy". It's the religion I don't need.

My conclusion is similar to BobbyO's quote below, that the most important decision is selecting the hotspot and after that they control the when, who, and how. Once you select a target area, then it is up to the law of large numbers, attending the area frequently enough to either be there when the BFs are passing through or making them familiar enough with your routine that they are willing to approach you. The answer to the question of how do they know you are present in their area is not clear. While many attribute all sorts of enhanced abilities to BF (ability to hear, smell, see, and even sense your presence from afar), I don't really know how far they can be before they detect me. The technique that I use when I go to a hotspot is to spend my daytime hiking in several directions and exploring the area. The expectation (wishful thinking) is that if BFs are present, that they will detect your movements and maybe follow you to camp. Another technique that I have used at night (specially when I am alone and the camp is quiet), is to hang a multi-color strobe light on a tree close to camp. That just tells anybody where I am camping, but given BFs ability to see well at night they don't need that to find me. Just like the list above, one expectation from the strobe light is to create curiosity and maybe their approach to camp (but no success on that technique so far). I had these creatures walk by my camp at least on 3 occasions (based on my audio recordings), and I had no lights (no moon, no strobe lights, no camp lights, no campfires, and totally dark). It appears that they want total advantage of night vision. Besides that multi color strobe light item, I don't use any of the 6 techniques listed above. Maybe they choose the target based on perceived intent. You can do all the right things, but your heart and mind are in the wrong place and they can detect that. Who knows? These sightings do seem random to me. My own daylight sighting was totally unexpected and random. I was not even looking for or interested in this phenomena. Just backpacking in a wilderness area. 100% Agree. They decide if an encounter will occur and how much evidence they want to provide (how close they want to get to camp and how much noise to make). I am also interested where they go when humans are not present (specially winter). Even the hotspots that I visit do not show presence all the time. It seems that they are passing by on the way to some other place and luck comes in picking the correct day/week/month of they year. Thus, the importance of the law of large numbers, you need to be in location for a long time to really understand their movements. Something that I can't really do because of work and time constraints.

He poached a bear cub… and instead of shoveling it and subsequently shutting up, he decides to make up a fantastic story that is guaranteed to do nothing but attract attention. He then knowingly turns over a piece of that same cub to a DNA test of all things. Which again brings further attention to his poaching. That doesn’t make sense to me, but neither side here is going to convince the other of anything.

If you shoot me and I am unarmed, I'm going to put as much distance between us as I possibly can. My intelligence tells me that if you can shoot me once, the probability of you shooting me again is high. What if I decide to retreat and I'm not smart enough to know that you probably have the power to shoot me again, but I succumb to my injuries before I can retaliate? I have a hunch that revenge would be out of the question. He supposedly killed a little kid outright and its sibling of similar age was just a scared kid wanting to get away alive. I see no correlation with intelligence and lack of revenge = hoax. I've been in on enough bear hunts and kills to know that 9 times out of ten, the bear flees unless cornered. I have had only one wounded bear stand it's ground as I tracked it into an alder thicket. I was hunched over moving through the thicket when I came upon him. He hunkered down and popped his teeth rapidly. We were face to face at no more than 15 feet and I slowly backed out. No retaliation occurred.

I have family in Sedro Woolley. And my old pack partner was from Deming. He passed this year. All right at the base of Mt Baker. I have not spent much time over there. Mt Baker set the world record of annual snow fall. 1140 inches in 98-99. Thats 95 feet or 28.95 meters! https://komonews.com/weather/scotts-weather-blog/the-story-of-how-mt-bakers-world-record-snowfall-22-years-ago-was-verified

The heart and mind and human intentions have nothing to do with Bigfoot encounters. It is all about being in the right place at the right time and having the necessary knowledge to increase the likelihood of a sighting. Or at least locating evidence. Of course there is no fool proof method of encountering a Bigfoot, just as there is ultimately no fool proof method of encountering any animal in the wild. No matter how skillful of a hunter and tracker one is.

Don't really know why you bothered to respond then. Some might even call it an agenda if they were down far enough inside the CT rabbit hole. Except to maybe just do your bit to water things down. You know, create a bit more apathy? Apathy is good though. It's perfect for things like boredom and going to sleep and stuff. Which apparently is working quite well because, just in case you haven't noticed (apathy will do that to you), the BFF does seem a bit sleepy........yawn.

Our ultimate goal needs to be acquiring irrefutable evidence. Meaning either a body, bones, or DNA. While we can certainly acquire this evidence on our own as Bigfoot researchers, getting the scientific community on board will provide the field which much needed funding, specialist knowledge, and technology. I agree that Bigfoot related farcical programming such as Mountain Monsters that panders to the lowest common denominator doesn't exactly lend to our community an air of respectability. But neither does the Tardis brigade and other assorted space cadets tromping around the forest with electromagnetic antennas chasing after ET and portals. Face the facts, the only way to peak the interest of the scientific community is to present a well-researched flesh and blood hypothesis that Bigfoot as an unclassified species of primate. This remains the only viable hypothesis, as portals, ETs, interdimensional beings, shape shifters and other assorted rubbish do not exist. I type this from my reserved seat at the scientific adult table.

Ah, I see. Leave everything up to one person. Make sure they stay isolated and without any help from the community. Yeah, that;s the ticket, that'll get things done. Unless of course the ploy is to make sure things DON'T get done but instead remain the same? MIB told me one time that the reason I don't make headway with F&W or the scientific world is because I'm just one random person. And yet anyone who tries to reach out for help gets tossed onto that same pile, isolated and going it alone for the truth. I know the resistance hand. I tried to do things, but this Forum is just so much dead weight. Members like Wooly Booger and I get turned into the bad guys for wanting the truth to become public. And I've seen every excuse in the book for why Sasquatch won't be discovered. None of it useful for anything but making sure people that do want public discovery get squashed down and unassisted in any move toward that end. What no one really clearly explains is why that is when official recognition could happen for the most incredible creature modern man could ever know. Science could do this but no one will lift a finger to make it happen. I would say that Wooly Booger is a respected member of the scientific community who would like public discovery. Let the Forum know why you don't give two hoots. Try not to sugar it up too much, okay?