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Hello all, I've been interested in Sasquatch since I saved up $5.00 to see the Minnesota Iceman on display at our regional mall. Since then, I've endeavored to find as much information I could to satisfy my curiosity. I haven't stopped. By joining this forum, I am continuing the search.

New guy. Been interested in this for a long time. Been backcountry camping in the shenandoah for years and never seen anything but I'm open to the possibility.

Unknown predator simply means the remains were too far decomposed in order to determine a specific predator. Likely not the researchers looking at a dead calf and saying that the claw and/or teeth marks don't match any known predator. Based on previous accounts of Sasquatch and it's ability to detect electronics, I highly doubt one would target an elk calf wearing a collar.

Tarzan? I'm on the Rez Squatching team on the Omaha Reservation and I don't know what you are talking about. The 2018 sighting on the Omaha Reservation in the BFRO database is my report. As for the conference, they had it at an outdoor venue last year and it was too cold. The "phone call" between Igor and a Russian bigfoot was a little too much to take. I may still go anyway to hang with some bigfooting friends.

reprinted with permission 10/4/2021 The RELICT HOMINOID INQUIRY 10:6-28 (2021) Research Article RESEARCH ON WILDMEN IN VIETNAM Trần Hồng Việt1*, Trần Hồng Hải1 , Jeff Meldrum2 1 Vietnam Cryptozoic and Rare Animal Research Center, Hanoi University of Education 2 Department of Biological Sciences, Idaho State University, 921 S. 8th Ave, Pocatello, ID 83209 *Correspondence to: Trần Hồng Việt, Email: tranhvietsp@gmail.com © RHI ABSTRACT The possible existence of relict hominoid species in various parts of the world persists as a question of limited overt interest for investigation by most scientists. Investigations in the Central Highlands of Vietnam have documented ethnographic traditions, recent anecdotal descriptions, and trace evidence, i.e. footprints, of possibly two forms of “wildmen” – a great wildman and a small wildman. A documented trackway, providing one fresh hominoid footprint, herein attributed to the great wildman, is larger than a typical local Vietnamese human footprint. Its proportions, combined with indications of a longitudinal arch, are features distinct from the footprints attributed to a sasquatch-like hominoid, as evidenced in both North America and Asia. Given historic impacts on montane habitat presumed to be occupied by the wildmen, their status is likely endangered and timely efforts to identify and understand them are needed. KEY WORDS: Relict Hominoids, Footprints, Indochina, Mainland Southeast Asia, Central Highlands, Người rừng, Sasquatch. INTRODUCTION The existence and nature of relict hominoids, or “wildmen,” is now a topic of interest within the scientific community (Meldrum, 2012a, b). However, research on wildmen attracts the involvement of only a limited number of scientists around the world (Mã Tranh, 2002). In Vietnam, the legends of “forest men” have been recounted for hundreds of years, but it was not until the 1970s that the Vietnamese government showed serious interest in the potential existence of these creatures. In 1974, the Vietnamese government sponsored a research team, which included Prof. Hoang Xuan Chinh (Archaeological Institute), Vo Quy, and Le Vu Khoi (Hanoi University), to go to the Liberated Area of Gialai-Kontum and Dak Lak Provinces, to inquire about the forest men and to gather pertinent information and evidence. Many paleontological and archaeological studies in Vietnam have discovered evidence of primitive hominins (i.e. Homo erectus) in Tham Hai, Tham Khuyen (Lang Son Province), as well as modern humans (Homo sapiens) at Hang Hum (Yen Bai Province), Thung Lang (Ninh Binh Province; Schwartz et al., 1994, 1995; Le Trung Kha, 1974; Ho, PT, 1997). Fossil skeletal remains and tools dating back to the Old Stone Age were found in many places throughout the country (e.g. Nui Do, Nui Nuong, Nui Quan Yen, etc.; Tinh uy, UBND tinh Thanh Hoa, 2000). The latest finding was eleven primitive tools from the Lower Paleolithic Era (about 800 kya) in Roc Tung (An Khe, Gia Lai; Doi et al., 2020 With regard to anthropoids, evidence of Pongo pygmaeus, P. hooijeri, Gigantopithecus blacki, etc. have been found (Schwartz et al., 1995). Lately, two complete subfossil skeletons of orangutan (an adult female and a juvenile), dating back 4,000-5,000 years ago, have been found at Cao Ram (Luong Son, Hoa Binh; Bacon & Vu, 2001). During the two wars in Vietnam (1945- 1975), there were many eyewitness accounts of wildmen-encounters deep in the forest, experienced by American, South Korean and Vietnamese soldiers. Some notable accounts include Captain Frank Hansen’s story of an alleged frozen wildman corpse, eventually exhibited in Minnesota (Huevelmans & Porchnev, 1974; Huevelmans, 2016); Australian journalist Wilfred Burchette’s story about the “forest man” in Dak Mil Province (Central Highlands; see Forth, 2008); Cryptozoologist Loren Coleman’s tale about wildman at Thi Village (Dak Lak; Coleman and Huyghe, 1999; see also Loofs-Wissowa, 1996); Columnist Kregg PJ Jorgenson’s accounts about the Người rừng (Central Highlands; Jorgenson, 2001); and other anecdotal accounts of American GI encounters with “rock apes” (Meldrum, pers. comm.). These persistent reports of encounters with wildmen raised the possibility of the existence a relict hominoid in Vietnam and drew the attention of Vietnamese scientists. FIELD INVESTIGATION Vietnamese scientists had been involved with wildmen investigations since 1974, but it was not until 1977 that the research on wildmen was officially undertaken in the South of Vietnam. In 1982, the research project titled “Study and proposed measures to protect the valuable and rare animals in Sa Thay, Gialai-Kontum” coded 5202-0102b, which is a part of a key national program on environment (5202), was conducted with the main purpose of studying wildmen in the central area of Vietnam (Viet, 1986, 1998). When it was determined that there were indeed some evidences of wildmen in Kon Tum Province, the government resolved (number 65/HDBT, date 7/4/1982) to designate 35,500 ha of forest of Mom Ray Mountain region to protect and study them further. As of 2002, it has been designated the Cum Mom Ray National Park (see Fig. 1, 2). Adjacent to the Chu Mom Ray National Park are protected areas in Cambodia and Loas. The entire area has about 700,000 ha of forests creating a large cross-country preserve, which has particular important to biodiversity conservation in Indochina and Southeast Asia. The region has been identified as the Southern Annamites Montane Rain Forest Ecoregion by the World Wildlife Fund. The intact forests of the ecoregion are wet closed broadleaf evergreen forests receiving up to 200 cm (78 inches) of precipitation. It is otherwise little explored due to its remoteness and hazards (e.g. landmines). The known flora and fauna attest to the region's biological diversity. The tiger (Panthera tigris), Asian elephant (Elephas maximus), douc langur (Pygathrix nemaeus), gibbon (Hylobates gabriellae), wild dog (Cuon alpinus), sun bear (Ursus malayanus), clouded leopard (Pardofelis nebulosa), gaur (Bos gaurus), banteng (Bos javanicus), and Eld's deer (Cervus eldii) are among the better known of the 122 mammal species found here (Wikramanayake, n.d.). Ten field investigations, comprising a total of 432 days, at 21 locations in Gia Lai, Kon Tum, Dak Lak, and Lam Dong Provinces were undertaken (Fig. 2). Eyewitness accounts of the wildmen were gathered from the locals, and a thorough study of environmental habitat, traces, footprints, diet, activities, etc. was made where the locals had reportedly encountered the wildmen. Unfortunately, due to inadequate expedition conditions, the serious deficiency of the equipment, limited time and interruption during the fieldwork, the data collected were not as abundant as expected and no conclusive evidence of the existence of the wildmen was found. There were, however, some noteworthy observations as follows: 1.) Wildmen are suspected to exist in a few scattered, secluded areas in the eastern south-central coast of Vietnam (from Quang Nam to Phu Khanh) and in five provinces in the Western Truong Son Range (Annamite Range). Nevertheless, during and after the wars, the habitat has been shrinking significantly. 2.) There are perhaps two kinds of wildmen co-existing in Vietnam: the “great wildman” and the “small wildman”. Their range may overlap in one area – Dak Lak Province. GREAT WILDMAN Local names: Người rừng (Kinh), Kdghăt (Ê Đê), Jring (Mơ nông), Bông bót, bơ ban mơ nâng (Giarai). The larger form is reported to be about 1.8-2.0 m (5 ft 11 in – 6 ft 7 in) in height. Their body is covered with long red-brown or darkbrown hair, excepting the face, which skin is pink-grey. The hair on their head is unkempt, hanging down to the shoulder or middle of the back, longer than remaining body hair. The hair on their back lies smooth while that on their belly is separated in two directions, parted in the midline of their body, from the neck to the end of the belly (compare Fig. 3). The forearm hair on the outside is long and twirls up toward elbow. The back of their hands and feet are also covered with hair. They have a robust physique and disproportionately thick body. They walk up-right and bipedally at a slow and leisurely pace with a slight stoop, hands hanging down to the knees and fingers rather curved. However, in the face of danger, they can leap and run very fast. They are not afraid of humans, and do not run away unless approached. They are active both diurnally and nocturnally. They have been encountered at 7:00-9:00 am, 1:00 pm, 4:00 pm, 9:00 pm, and some indeterminate times based on discovered footprints, but the locals usually saw them during the daytime (11 out of 18 encounters). They were seen solitarily most of the time. Out of 18 encounters, the locals only saw a three-member group twice, and a male and female couple five times. According to the locals, wildmen are omnivorous, with varied diets including leaves, wild sour berries, rattan sprouts (Calamus bonianus), tiger grass sprouts (Thysanolaena latifolia), pith and fruit of banana (Musa coccinae); also, bird eggs, young birds, small trapped animals, frogs, toads, fish, shrimp, crab, snails, larvae, and insects. There is no evidence of fire use, so food is presumed to be eaten raw. They use simple sounds, such as long or short, monotonous yelling calls, or sometimes wails, to vocalize. There is no evidence of communication using articulate speech. It is noteworthy that no one has reported being attacked by wildmen in eighteen known encounters, which indicates that they are generally not fierce or aggressive towards humans. Footprint Evidence Regarding trace evidence attributed to the great wildman, more than ten human-shaped footprints were discovered on Ngoc Vin pass, Mom Ray Mountain, Sa Thay district, Kontum province, on April 23, 1982. The footprints clearly indicated a bipedal walk. The distance between steps was approximately 70 cm (27.5 in). Regrettably, it was impossible to fully document all these footprints, because they were left on grass, or firm ground of the mountain road covered by a thin layer of dust (Fig. 3). Field investigators were only able to obtain one clear and detailed footprint, likely less than 24 hours old, coded 824 T1 (Fig. 4). It had a depth of 1.5 cm, as it was left on the roadside near an abyss, on fine soft soil moistened by a rain. The footprint indicates that the great wildmen possess a plantigrade, pentadactyl foot. Footprint 824 T1 was 29 x 12 cm (11.4 x 4.7 in) in length x breadth. The footprint presents elongated toe imprints and a broad rounded heel. In general, it resembles human footprints, but is bigger than that of typical modern Vietnamese, including habitually unshod indigenous human populations. The average Vietnamese man’s height is 162 cm (5 ft 3 in) making them the fourth shortest human population in the world (NCDRisC, 2016). That equates to an average foot length of ≈ 24 cm (9.5 in). One of us (DJM) has suggested the possibility of slippage during the latter part of stance may be indicated in the footprint, which would somewhat exaggerate the apparent length of the toes and would account for a prominently extruded pressure ridge proximal to the metatarsal heads (see Fig. 5). However, both THV and THH, who examined and documented the footprint in situ first-hand, assert that no appearance of slippage was evident. As only one distinct footprint was left in mud, we are left with no basis of comparison by which to conclusively distinguish potential footprint artifact from the actual dynamic morphology. Figure 6 depicts a reconstruction of the outline of the foot without the potential distortion resulting from late stance slippage. This contrasts with the outline in Fig. 11, traced directly from the resulting cast of the footprint. The foot length (from heel to the tip of hallux) is 29 ± 0.5 cm (11.4 in), while that of an average Vietnamese only measures ≈ 24 cm(9.5 in). The forefoot is wide, narrows to the hindfoot, with the widest part across splayed toes (between hallux and the outermost toe) measuring 11.5 ± 0.5 cm (4.5 in). The sole pad breadth across the forefoot measures 9 ± 0.5 cm(3.5 in); average Vietnamese ≈ 7 cm (2.8 in); heel breadth is 7.5 ± 0.5 cm (3 in); average Vietnamese ≈ 6 cm ( 2.4 in). The heel has an evenly rounded outline instead of a tapered one. Although footprint 824 T1 is larger than an average Vietnamese male, it is not as big as the footprints attributed to the sasquatch in North America, with an average length of 40 cm, or 15.75 inches (Fig. 7) (Fahrenbach, 1997-1998; Meldrum, 2006, 2007). The potential presence of a sasquatch-like relict hominoid in East Asia is indicated by examples of equivalent footprints, in morphology and dimensions, discovered in various regions, such as those attributed to the Chinese yeren (Meldrum & Zhou, 2012). The footprint 824 T1 shows a non-divergent hallux, which resembles humans. The toes decrease in size from the hallux to the outermost toes, slightly spread in fan-like shape, point forwards but slant rather medially (perhaps due to slippage of the forefoot); the lateral toes are somewhat splayed initially, but become closely appressed to the hallux, as they flexed into the soil. Adjusting for possible distortion, the hallux pad imprint measures ≈4.6 cm long by 3.0 cm wide (1.8 in x 1.2 in); the lateral toepads are approximately 2.5 cm long by 2.0 cm wide (1 in x 0.8 in). The impressions of the toe stems of the first three digits are evident, as in a human-like footprint. The location of the pressure ridge of extruded mud, produced proximal to the imprint of the metatarsal heads indicates the presence of a longitudinal arch, either transient of fixed. That the arch is rather obscured by the extruded pressure ridge, and no additional footprints are available for comparison, establishing whether the arch is fixed or transient, remains uncertain. The medial prominence of the extruded pressure ridge suggests differential plantar pressure exerted through the medial ball and hallux (Fig. 7). This is further indicated by the greater depth under the hallux compared to the lateral digits (Fig. 8). A cast was made of the footprint, which provides additional insights into the differential topography of the footprint (Fig. 9) further indicating the presence of a medial longitudinal arch, differential expression of the metatarsal pressure ridge proximal to the hallux, and differential depth of impression beneath the hallux. The configuration of shape and proportion, as well as the signs of dynamic animation make it unlikely that this footprint is the result of an artificial contrivance. Furthermore, it neither appears to be an ursid hind paw or the registered fore and hind paw of an ursid. Nor the composite of overlapping spoor of other species. No other footprints of a second animal were visible on site, within a 2 m radius. This morphology of 824 T1 stands in contrast to the diagnosis of the footprint form attributed to sasquatch, based on a large sample of footprints attributed to that possible hominoid (Meldrum, 2007). The sasquatch foot is characterized by a flat flexible foot form, with a considerable range of movement in the midtarsal joints (Meldrum, 2004). A pressure ridge is frequently present associated with flexion at the transverse tarsal joint, i.e., calcaneocuboid + talonavicular joints (Fig. 10). The relative position of the pressure ridge, proximal to the metatarsal heads in the case of 824 T1, in contrast to a position proximal to the inferred location of the transverse tarsal joint in the case of the sasquatch (Fig. 11). When the footprint was discovered, alternate hypotheses to account for its attribution were considered: that it was possibly a large human footprint, or it belonged to a bear, or orangutan. It has been pointed out that the feet of the indigenous human populations of the central highlands are notably smaller than 824 T1 (Fig. 12). It seems unlikely that the footprints were made by a barefoot Vietnamese. There are two species of black bear found in southeast Asia, the Asiatic black bear, or moon bear (Ursus thibetanus), and Malaysian sun bear (Helarctos malayanus). These are quadrupeds with distinctive fore and hind paw prints. However, the elongated hind paw and five digital pads lend only a superficial resemblance to a human footprint. Notable distinctions include the tapering pointed heel, usually claw impressions, and reversed appearance of the toe row (the shortest toe is located medially). Members of the IUCN Bear Specialist Group were consulted for an additional opinion concerning the possibility of attributing the footprint to a bear. Asiatic Black Bear Expert Team co-chairs, Dave Garshelis and Mei-hsiu Hwang examined photos of 824 T1 and concluded that it did not convincingly resemble any bear spoor they were familiar with in form or dimensions and offered inked paw prints for comparison (Fig. 13; Meldrum, pers. comm.). The bear hind print in this instance measures 20 cm (7.9 in), compared to footprint 824 T1 at 29 cm (11.4 in). It has also been suggested that the footprint was left by a surviving orangutan, known to have existed on the mainland during the Pleistocene. However, the extant orangutan foot morphology is very different from that of the 824 T1 footprint, because the known extant orangutan is a quadrumanus arboreal hominoid, with very specialized prehensile feet, with a short hallux diverging from and opposing the other extremely elongated toes (Fig. 14). The only subfossil skeletal remains of a mainland orangutan are rather gracile and possess a more extreme intermembral index (165) than the extant species (Bacon & Long 2001). These exceptional limb proportions, with disproportionately elongated forelimbs, are associated with committed arboreal locomotion. Another possibility is that it was a footprint of a surviving Gigantopithecus sp., but unfortunately, the locomotor mode of these hominoids remain unknown in the absence of postcranial skeletal remains. No pedal fossil specimens are available with which to make a comparison. Besides, G. blackii is inferred to have been of enormous dimensions, 200-300 kg (440-660 lb) or more. Extinct hominin species known from the region include Homo erectus and Homo heidelbergensis. The size, shape, and kinematic structure of the footprint 824 T1 indicate that it could reasonably be attributed to the great wildman, confirming descriptions of this potential relict hominoid as a large bipedal terrestrial nonhuman primate, namely a hominin with derived foot morphology, inhabiting the forests of mountainous areas of southeast Asia. SMALL WILDMAN Local names: Người rừng nhỏ (Kinh), Kdjhăt, Jring tan, Arăc tan, Mnuih (Mơ Nông), Hăng háy, Ma lay (Giarai), Dạ tày nông (Xê Đăng), (Ha Lăng). The small wildman form is reportedly 1.2 -1.5 m (3 ft 11 in – 4 ft 11 in) in height on average, tail absent, entirely covered with long grey-brown or grey-black hair, including the backs of the hands and dorsum of the feet. The head hair is said to be about waist-length for females and a bit shorter for males; the old individuals also have white hair. The face is hairless, and the skin is a light yellow-grey or light grey-black color. They walk upright and bipedally, like the great wildmen, but without a stoop, and can also leap and run very fast. The small wildmen are said to be diurnal. Reports of encounters by locals have occurred during the daytime 13 times, but only once at about 9:00 pm and once at 2:00 am out of 15 encounter cases. Small wildmen are said to live in caves and find food (e.g., small crabs, snails and fish) alongside springs and streams, which are eaten raw, as there is no indication of fire use. They socialize in larger groups than the great wildmen, often numbering 3-5 members. The locals described seeing a group of small wildmen twice, a four-member group once, a male and female couple four times, a pair made of mother and juvenile twice, and a solitary individual seven times. Small wildmen display no evidence of articulate speech. Apart from monotonous yelling calls, they are described as communicating by gestures and sound signals during daytime activities. Their opportunistic tool-use compares to other non-human hominoids, such as using rocks for digging and throwing. Interestingly, both kinds of wildmen in Vietnam are described as not fierce, lacking language, fire use or tool manufacture, and are frequently encountered in proximity of human settlement. They have been seen on the hills, in the fields, or on the roads, where people commonly pass nearby. Small wildmen in particular, are not afraid of humans. They do not run away unless approached. Some eyewitnesses also claimed to have seen them entering the locals’ shacks. They are even perceived to be so friendly and human-like that the locals refer to them as “brothers in the forest.” Perhaps with the rapid proliferation of smartphones, photographic evidence of the small wildmen will eventually be forthcoming. CONCLUSION Vietnam harbors much biodiversity, including rare and unique endemic organisms and an unusual mixture of tropical and temperate species (Sterling et al., 2006). The description of the size, shape, and behavior of “wildmen,” based on eyewitness accounts and alleged specimens examined, suggests the existence of two forms of relict hominoid – the great wildman and the small wildman – in some provinces of Tay Nguyen (Vietnam). Evidence indicates the primary habitat of the wildmen to be the forests in mountainous regions of the Central Highlands, stretching from Kom Tun to Lang Don Provinces. The impacts of war and recent settlement, cultivation and development of natural resources, means the habitat has been shrinking considerably, raising concern that both species are being pushed to the verge of extinction. Vietnamese authorities have yet to show appropriate interest, let alone make proper investment of resources and effort in determining the existence of and researching the nature of wildmen, considering their likely endangered status. Literature Cited Bacon A-M and Long V (2001). The first discovery of a complete skeleton of a fossil orang-utan in a cave of the Hoa Binh Province, Vietnam. Journal of Human Evolution. 41:227-41. Coleman L and Huyghe P. The Field guide to Bigfoot, Yeti, and Other Mystery Primates Worldwide. New York: Avon Books, 1999. Doi, Nguyen gia and Doan khai quat hop tac Viet-Nga (2020) Overview on excavation process and research into An Khe Paleolithic site complex Gialai province in 2015-2019. Khao co hoc 3:9-23. Fahrenbach WH (1997-1998) Sasquatch: size, scaling and statistics. Cryptozoology, 13:47-75. Forth G. Images of the Wildman in Southeast Asia: An Anthropological Perspective. New York: Routledge, 2008. Ho PT (1997) Nguon goc loai nguoi, Nxb Giáo Dục, 75 tr. Heuvelmans B and B Porchnev. L’homme de Neanderthal est toujours vivant, Paris: Plon, 1974. Huevelmans B. The Strange Saga of the Minnesota Iceman, translated by Paul LeBlond, San Antonio: Anamolist Books, 2016. Jorgenson KPJ, Very Crazy G.I., New York: Presidio Press, 2001. Kha LT (1974) Tim hieu van de Neanderthal. Khao co hoc so 16 / 1974: 31-36. Loofs-Wissowa H, “Seeing is believing or is it? How scientific is ‘Wildman’ research?” ANU Reporter 27(12):4 (17 July 1996). Mã T (2002) (translated by Nguyen Duy Chiem). Bi an ve Nguoi rung, Hanoi: Hanoi Publishing House, 335p. Machusin, GN (1986) Nguon goc loai ngưoi (Phạm Thai Xuyen dịch), Nxb KHKT Hanoi, 240p. Meldrum DJ (2004) Midfoot Flexibility, Fossil Footprints, and Sasquatch Steps: New Perspectives on the Evolution of Bipedalism. Journal of Scientific Exploration 18:65-79. Meldrum J. Sasquatch: Legend Meets Science, New York: Tom Doherty Associates, 2006. Meldrum, DJ (2007) Ichnotaxonomy of giant hominoid tracks in North America. In: SG Lucas, JA Spielman and MG Lockley (eds) Cenozoic Vertebrate Tracks and Traces. New Mexico Museum of Natural History and Science Bulletin 42:225-331. Meldrum DJ (2012a) Adaptive radiations, bushy trees, and relict hominoids. The Relict Hominoid Inquiry 1:51-56. Meldrum DJ (2012b) Are other hominins (hominoids) alive today? The Relict Hominoid Inquiry 1:67-71. Meldrum DJ and G Zhou (2012) Footprint evidence of the Chinese yeren. The Relict Hominoid Inquiry 1:57-66. NCD Risk Factor Collaboration (NCD-RisC). “A century of trends in adult human height.” eLife vol. 5 e13410. 26 Jul. 2016. Schwartz JH, VT Long, NL Cuong, LT Kha, I Tattersall (1994) A diverse Hominoid fauna from the late middle Pleistocene breccia cave of Tham Khuyen, Socialist Republic of Vietnam Anthropological Papers of the American Museum of Natural History, Number 73, 11p. Schwartz JH, VT Long, NL Cuong, LT Kha, I Tattersall (1995) A review of the Pleistocene Hominoid fauna of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam (excluding Hylobatidae). Anthropological Papers of the American Museum of Natural History, Number 76, 23p. Sterling E, M Hurley and M Le (2006). Vietnam: A Natural History. New Haven: Yale University Press. Tinh uy, UBND, HDND tinh Thanh Hoa, 2000. Thanh Hoa thoi tien su, Dia chi Thanh Hoa, tap I, Nxb Van Hoa Thong Tin: p. 519-524. Viet TH (1986) Thu hoang dai vung Sa Thay va y nghĩa kinh te cua chung. Truong DHTH Hanoi, 225p. Viet TH (1998) Báo cáo nghiệm thu de tai Nguoi rung, DHQG, DHSP HN: 25p. Wikramanayake E, P Rundel and R Boonratana (n.d.) Southeastern Asia: Vietnam into Laos and Cambodia. https://www.worldwildlife.org/ecoregions/im0152 (retrieved 4/8/2021. WWF Dong Duong (2000) Gioi thieu mot so loai thu o Dong Duong va Thai Lan, 255p. Figure 1. Map of the forbidden forest of Mom Ray (Sa Thay, Gia Lai, Kon Tum Province). Figure 2. Kon Tum, Gia Lai, Dak Lak, Dak Nong and Lam Dong Provinces (Central Highlands of Vietnam). Chu Mom Ray National Park indicated by the red dot. Figure 3. Descriptions of the great wildman resemble this rendition of “Pongoid Man,” by Alika Lindbergh, based on Heuvelmans’ reconstruction of the Minnesota Iceman. Figure 4. The site at Ngoc Vin pass, Mom Ray Mountain, Sa Thay district, Kontum Province, where the trackway trace attributed to the great wildman was left on a mountain road. X marks the location of the single footprint 824 T1. Figure 4. Footprint 824 T1, attributed to the great wildman. Figure 5. Footprint 824 T1. Alternate interpretation of the footprint, allowing for distortion dues to slippage during the late stance phase (DJM). Yellow indicates the initial position of the toe pads in early stance; blue the final position of toe pads after inferred slippage (smaller arrow). Direction of extrusion feature proximal to metatarsal heads (larger arrow) Figure 6. A reconstructed outline of footprint 824 T1 (left), compared to three examples of outlined footprints attributed to sasquatch in North America (right). Figure 7. Footprint 824 T1. Oblique proximodistal view. Figure 8. Footprint 824 T1. Details of the forefoot viewed proximodistally. Note differential depth of the hallux imprint. Figure 9. Cast of footprint 824 T1. Figure 10. Multiple views of a 3D scan of a footprint cast attributed to sasquatch, made by Bob Titmus at the Patterson-Gimlin film site in northern California, 1967, illustrating a midtarsal pressure ridge. Figure 11. (Left to Right) Footprint 824 T1; Cast of 824 T1; Diagram of measurements taken from the cast of 824 T1; Cast of a footprint attributed to sasquatch from the Patterson-Gimlin film site, California. Figure 12. Left. A reconstructed outline of the footprint 824 T1, removing potential distortion caused by slippage (29 cm). Right. Habitually unshod human footprint (24 cm). Figure 13. (Left to Right) Inked footprints of the left hind paw and left fore paw of an Asiatic black bear, Ursus thibetanus (courtesy of Garshelis and Mei-hsiu). Figure 14. Life mold of an orangutan right foot (credit: Bone Clones).

I’m not sure if I ever told my stories here on the BFF. And though I live in Oregon, all three of my "experiences" happened in Florida, less than ten miles from Myakka River State Park about fifteen years ago. I was living at a country club / older folk’s community while I was in Florida going to school for a couple of years. Whenever I could, I would get out into nature by hiking up at Myakka River State Park and surrounding areas. Beautiful place, but it can be dangerous. There’s a lot of wildlife and it seems everything out there is looking to hurt or kill you. Lots of gators, poisonous snakes, spiders, boars, panthers, and my wife and I even saw two jaguarundis once at Myakka River State Park. My experiences though, happened at the golf course, strangely enough. The first experience we had, I was with my wife and we were out sitting on our screened in porch on the second floor enjoying a cigar and a cold fermented malt beverage. It was very late at night, I would say maybe 2AM, and we had the lights out so I wouldn’t get busted for smoking a cigar. Just talking and relaxing. This second-floor porch overlooked maybe 20 feet of grass, then a retaining pond (lake), and the golf course itself. We could see none of it though, it was a very dark night. Well this night was very quiet. Suddenly, we heard bipedal footsteps sloshing through the water. Big. Deliberate. Not fast, but not slow. It was covering a lot of ground with those steps. Now it was too dark to see, but I knew at the time there are only two things in the water at night in Florida. Gators, and gator food. If you are not one, you are the other. But even though you could hear the sloshing of the steps, you could almost feel the ground thumping as whatever it was moved. It wouldn’t make sense that a person would be walking through the water at night after midnight with no flashlight (or even with one for that matter). But this was no gator. Whatever it was was walking on two legs. As it passed the “lanai”, we were both afraid to even look to see what it was. Not that we could have anyway. But we didn’t even want to get close to the screen. It passed right by us. I would say no more than 30 feet away, max. It never broke stride. We were both too afraid to even speak. And when we did, we whispered and didn’t pronounce our “s’s” because we didn’t want to be heard by whatever it was.We sat there a long while after this thing was gone, trying to figure out what it was. I joked “skunk ape” with her, but the truth was that I was pretty certain that’s what we heard. I have seen deer out there and tons of birds. But this was no deer. No wild pig. Not a bear. Not a panther. It was bigger than those for certain. I still don’t KNOW what it was But if I had to put money down on something, I would have to go with a skunk ape because nothing else fits. That was the first experience. The second and third ones are tied together. Let me set the stage a little. I had an old dog. He was awesome. Always quiet and mild mannered. Unless there was danger. Then he became 120 pounds of growling snarling canine badassery. Mix of black lab, German shepherd, chow, akita, and coyote. I had to walk him when I got home from school. Usually that was after midnight or so. Outside the gate of the community though, there was swamp land, and general native Florida wilderness. When I say “gate”, I mean there was a drop-down arm to block vehicles, but people could just walk around it. Boy, I miss the sounds of the gators and frogs at night! I would take Tucker out there to do his business next to the road. I always carried my pistol because it was scary out there with just a flashlight. This particular night, I was walking Tucker towards the gate to get out to the road to his happy pooping grounds, when he started walking slower. His head was lowered, and he was growling softly. Now we were still in the golf course community, mind you. But right next to a small pond that was completely blocked off with trees. You couldn’t even see this pond. Not even the landscapers went in there. I know, because I was curious and went in there one day. Very thick native Florida bush. Then swampy pond. Almost perfectly circular. Maybe fifty feet across is all. It’s own little nature preserve in miniature. It was right next to a man-made retaining pond that had gators and fish and frogs and snakes and the like in it. As we were passing this pond which you cannot see, Tucker’s hackles went up and he started growling loud, and baring his teeth. His eyes were fixed on the small trees next to us. These trees were maybe 20 feet tall. Almost like tall bushes, really. Just as I was really realizing that something was in there, that something growled from the cover of those trees. Loud as hell. I could feel it in my chest, even. I could feel my hair stand up. That had never happened to me before, and it was a really strange sensation. That growl was so low in pitch and loud! It was not a gator, as I have heard those sounds before many times. Then the trees began shaking VIOLENTLY. I thought whatever it was was either going to rip them down or come charging out, so I had my 1911 drawn. We backed away from those trees without turning around. I did not want to turn my back to them. My heart was pounding. I was scared crapless. We finally came home from a different route (we actually walked all the way around the community because I didn’t want to pass those bushes again. My wife asked where I had been and I explained everything. She thought it was funny. Well I was not amused. A few weeks went by, and my mother in law came to visit from Texas. We had an extra room, so it was no big deal. She always loved to go outside and see the nature there. She loved to walk the dog, too. I told her to stay away from the “growly bushes” as they had become to be known as. She teased me and I tried to explain I was NOT kidding and I was deadly serious. It piqued her curiousity. Well late one night maybe here or four weeks after the first “growly-bush” experience, we had been tipping a few drinks out on the lanai. It was late, and the dog needed to go out one last time. She volunteered, and asked me to go with her because she wanted to see the “growly-bushes”. I decided to show here where it happened. So foolishly, we headed down there. Tucker again started growling slow and low, with his head down as we approached the bushes. My mother in law started getting freaked out. Then as we got near them, the thing growled loud at us and shook the trees again, exactly as it had done before. My mother in law was terrified, and so was I. When we got back up to the safety of the condo, she swore that she would never doubt me again. Neither of us know for certain what growled at us. But whatever it was, had to be huge to shake the trees like that. I tried shaking them in the day time some time later, and could get them to move, but nothing like what we experienced. The good thing is that I had a witness this time. And she was able to relay what happened to my wife. Now my wife knows I was not joking about it. Folks there are strange things out there. And now that I am in Oregon and my kids are grown, I want to find out. That’s why I go out to the woods when I can and search for these beings. While I have never laid eyes on one that I know of, I know they are out there. And I hope to be able to find enough proof to make a difference. If not, maybe just enough to satisfy my own curiosity, which I think will never be satisfied.

My friend and I went wood cutting in the Butte Falls area that is North of Medford, Oregon. This was around 1977. Bigfoot was not a consideration for me or my partner, Bill. We cut up fire wood all day until we dropped, and spread out our tarp and plopped our sleeping bags down for a night’s sleep. It was a warm summer night in the open forest with tall trees spread all over. We were on the forest floor that was flat ground with tall fir and hemlock trees with some brush here and there. Something woke me up. I looked across this clearing to this dimly lit, huge fallen log about forty feet away. This hair covered creature is behind the log staring at me. It has no big fuzzy ears like a bear. A Black Bear has a flat head and long snout, and this animal had a cone shaped head and no snout. This animal had broad shoulders much wider than a bear. Only the top one fourth of its body was showing since the log blocked the rest of the view. Having no fear still puzzles me to this day and writing about this event helps. Welcome to the new forum members.

Ok, so the scariest night of MY life ... well, two contenders. The second, chronologically, was a night when at least 3 BFs entered our camp 5+ miles back into a federal wilderness. I awoke thinking I was dying. Could not breath. Facial muscles spasming. Pressure waves bouncing around inside my eye sockets. Sound that I thought was me hyperventilating. I've told it before so I'll save the details. I managed to mouth-breath but it was forced / labored, then calmed a little. Once I worked out that it wasn't me hyperventilating and heard the wood knocks, which probably took about 15 minutes, I knew what was going on and figured I'd be ok, it was just going to suck getting there, but that first bit awakening thinking I was dying was terrifying. The first was in the early to mid 80s. I did a solo backpack trip on a seldom used trail along a ridge. No water. At the end, I dropped down an old two-track to a mining claim looking for another trail dropping into the canyon .. at the canyon mouth is a road, more trails, a couple houses, and a fishing lodge. I got to the mining claim, end of the road coming down from above with either a mile and a half of creek splashing, jumping off small waterfalls, etc, or hopefully I'd find the trail. Set up camp in the road across the creek from the miners' shack ... 50-75 yards away. They'd just forded the creek with their jeep, no bridge, small creek. Ate dinner, climbed into my bag while the sun was still hitting the ridge high above me even though I was down in shadow. I was still stretching / squirming to get comfortable when I heard rocks rattle across the creek. I turned to look, saw nothing, heard more rattle a bit farther over, turned more, saw nothing, ... repeat a few times. The source of noise was circling me, dropped into the creek bed downstream from the crossing where it was below the edge of the road out of my sight. I heard a couple rocks roll over and splash in the creek, then something climbing. I flipped over so I could see better ... wasn't so twisted up. As I regained view of the spot, all I saw was the back of something leave the road into the brush .. missed getting a good view. But what I saw was unnerving. Hair was short, like a bulldog. It was "brown" .. more of a butterscotch color than a dusty tan. Shape was all wrong ... from the ribs back, which is all I saw, it looked like you might imagine a ice age megafauna version of a hyena to look. Stub tail .. 8 inches to a foot long, kind of clubby / stiff seeming. The belly did not sag like a cat belly. I loaded my stuff back in my backpack .. crammed, not organized. Shoved my feet in my boots ... didn't tie them. I hauled a$$ across the creek and broke into the miner's shack. Suddenly "warning - hazardous chemicals" seemed to be the least of my worries. I closed the door, slid everything loose in the shack against the door. The cabin had 3 rooms, not fully separate. One seemed to be a bedroom. There was a 2x4 wood frame roughly bed-shaped with a thick rubber sheet ... like inner tube material ... nailed over it. Sitting at the "head" of the bed with my back against the wall, I had a clear view of the outside door. That back wall was on the edge of a drop-off into the creek so it didn't seem like anything could come through the wall from behind. I spent the night there sitting / leaning with my pistol and flashlight on my lap. I heard something go around the cabin several times during the night ... gravel crunching. As soon as there was enough light, I repacked my pack properly, laced up my boots, and hauled butt down the creek bed, didn't bother looking for the trail (now I know it isn't there anyway, it's in the next fork to the west), and tore out of there jumping off waterfalls and stuff to get to the lower end of the canyon. I have no idea what I saw that night but I can tell you one thing ... I'm not camping in that canyon again. If I go through at all I'm timing things so I'm sleeping well away from it and passing through mid day. MIB

This is my first post on this site. When I heard the boy was found, my first thought was aliens (I am a believer) or a bigfoot took care of him. But stuff like this borders on paranormal and how people go missing without a trace and then turn up relatively Ok and with no memories of what happened. I need to read more about this case before drawing any of my own conclusions. Could it be there is more than one species of bigfoot in the Americas? Could there be an intelligent form that abducts people or children and a less intelligent form that is shy and avoids people? Has anyone thought there is more than on e type, like black and brown bears are different?