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Just because I disagree with someone on the BFF, doesn’t mean I would ever harm them. I hope everyone is aware of this fact. Besides with Huntster….it wouldn’t end well.👍 And Hiflier would just talk me to death…👍 Everyone have a blessed night.

Fascinating as always, Norseman! I think the main thing this article shows, without saying it outright, is just how little is really there in the fossil record, and how incomplete it really is. Chances are there were these three species and probably at least a couple more we 'be found no evidence of, coexisting. The arrival of hominids as a new form spreading out through a variety of habitats and ecosystems, just begs for early stage speciation, effectively trying out different models of the basic format as guided by the selective factors of a given region. Youd think at least a couple might have retained a more arboreal way of life until outcompeted them finished off by the eagles and pythons, ok, and leopards. But any niche that could be newly filled or replaced by a smart primate moving up in the world would probably involve some degree of specialization, and given any genetic isolation it doesn't take too long to come up with something a little different. Evolution is not always a slow long drawn out process, bottlenecks and catastrophes are just as effective selectors as are reaching fruit or developing immunities to local venoms . But when maybe 5-7% of creatures are represented by the fossil record, it's pretty absurd to think we have anything close to a clear or complete picture of our origins! Like somehow all the hominids had someone fossilized, and by some divine provenance we've unearthed at least one of each! The odds of such are incalculable. What's easier to figure out is that we monkeys are pretty self-impressed with our conjectured models of how things went despite the missing 95% of the story! This article also shows we sexed our competition in to extinction!

Us sub-Saharan Africans have longer legs. They say it's from running like Hell from leg irons. I'v got enough European in me to have legs much shorter than my brothers. Both of us have very strong trigger fingers, though. We're adapting from running........

Glad my name isn't Bob.

Whoa is for horses @hiflier, Kix are for kids and any member can discuss but only those loaded for bear before checking the load in their pants seem to have short tempers with member discussions! Sure have @Cliff Barackman check in, if I'm wrong at least I can fault my own recall of the situation and stand corrected, can you do the same? Oh, forgot the all sciency part, where are the control DNA samples from project/examiner participants?

Whoa, whoa, whoa, bipedalist, Are you saying that Dr. Meldrum took soil samples from under a nest AFTER Barackman had laid in it? You know what? I really get tired of people state things just to try and undermine a truth. They may have the best of intentions but their vision of the complete picture is narrow. So they say things without considering ALL the facts. For instance, I REALLY doubt that Barackman's DNA, if it really made it down through to the soil, had been there long enough to degrade. I also doubt that Barackman broke off all those huckleberry bushes. And that's just for starters. But even none of THAT really matters. There was no other primate DNA taken from the site but Human DNA, which was degraded. So you're suggesting that Barackman and Ellis's daughter laid in the nests, and then Meldrum showed up and dug it up out of soil under the nests? You have a chance to clarify that if you wish. I suggest you take it. And if not, take it up with Barackman because Derek Randles claimed that everyone was careful because they had learned from past mistakes how to not screw things up by contaminating the scene. Talk to him about that, okay? You can probably catch up with him at his museum. The one with the replicated nest inside it somewhere. In the mean time what is accurate for the facts is this: The nests were fresh, greenery still on them. Huckleberry bushes, about 30x40 sq yards of them, were broken off, not cut. Soil samples were taken by Meldrum and tested by Disotell. Degraded Human DNA was found. Even in a degraded state, the only chanc for anything "novel" would also have to be Human in origin. No other primate genus was discovered in the samples. Result? Only Humans were at the site. So slow down, take a breath, look at ALL the facts and details together, and then consider cooling your own jets.

Cool your jets @hiflier even Cliff Barrackman admitted to laying in the nests and it was my understanding before DNA samples were collected and this didn't even include those investigators picking thru the morass without gloves beforehand so the issue is who did the control DNA of all the investigators and how that was plotted out in comparison to what came later as degraded. Where is the detailed analysis and chain of custody of all of that then start a cat fight?!

QFT!

Apparently that "better" DNA analysis, where BF is concerned, has created some better cover up. The best way to cover up anything these days lies in my second signature quote below. Meldrum and Disotell both said Human DNA too degraded to show a novel primate. But they never went on to say that ANY novel primate, no matter what it may have turned out to be, couldn't have been anything other than a Human one. The most important point anyone could possibly take away from this thread is that degraded Human DNA, no matter where it was collected would NEVER show a "primate" other than one belonging to genus Homo. This kind of knowledge is just as good applied to past test results as is is applied to current or future test results. And I really hope the BF community as a whole takes this to heart. .....you're welcome.

Anchorage crime lab, which also did wildlife work for Fish & Wildlife enforcement, said they couldn't identify it, so "threw it out". Some stool sample remained in private possession in Ketchikan. Note that this was in the late '80's or early '90's when dna work was relatively new stuff. This was documented by Rob Alley in "Raincoast Sasquatch".

I do indeed know that, Huntster. It's why I started this thread, to expose that, and hopefully clear the air on the HONEST scientific identification the nest builders as HOMO that the DNA test results showed. Pretty simple right?

@karo In hunting season, I carry a rifle (currently a Browning BLR 300 WSM) and a 20Ga bird gun. Off season, bear spray only. When I was prospecting, I had a S&W 44 mag in a shoulder rig at all times when in bear country, but that, and timber surveying, is the only situation where you can carry a handgun in Canada, other than LEOs and armoured car personnel.

The mtDNA protocol that was run on the nest site samples won't show a different Human species because it only shows genus, like fox, bear, raccoon, deer, elk, Human, etc. Want to determine a different Human species from a genus Homo result? One would need nuclear DNA because Human genomes are so virtually identical at the mtDNA level an individual Human-like species could only be determined if its genus wasn't Homo. Dr. Disotell, et al, probably thought, and probably rightfully so, that no one would ever bring this up.

Hell, I'd hate to be smeared with caulk as much or more than punched in the mug. I'd prefer warm caulk, please.......

Nor would you "caulk" them - cold or hot. I'm still laughing over here.

That there is one of my biggest nightmares: 800+ lbs of bear pouncing on my tent at 0-dark-30 while I'm all wrapped up like a breakfast burrito in my nice, warm sleeping bag. Fighting with Mr. Trouble from inside a bag. I'll never forget a bear mauling here in Alaska near Kenai in 1967 of a guy who got dragged out of his tent by the head and given a working over. His wife led him out in the dark for several miles while his scalp kept flopping over his eyes. It's the stuff of nightmares.

Beautiful night!

I saw it described as AI.

I laughed out loud when I read your post. I was thinking along the same lines just before I turned off the TV.

I turned it off as well.

No....it wasn't. The show was a terrible rehash littered with laughable talking heads and shot of a guy in a suit. I had to turn it off.

Its obvious you didn't read the paper; otherwise, you would understand how it was done and wouldn't be making such foolish claims.