Guest Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Art if you follow some of the You Tube Bigfoot types, there are some surprisingly interesting results. Some of the researchers that work the same area repeatedly seem to get some interesting stuff,and this could be the result of a certain amount of familiarity, like the researcher has become part of the environment, and familiar enough to relax the alarm bells a little. I don't think I would call it trust, just something they become accustomed to seeing more often. I have read recently where there has been some talk that autism is not a condition, its not something that is "treatable" but instead is maybe linked to an evolutionary cause. Interestingly enough, they discuss the possible link to the Fox2p gene, and that is also one of the genes in DNA study "leaks" If you google Fox2p, you will find studies that say it is not associated,and others that say it is, or it is in the Chinese,etc. Its all over the map. Edited March 23, 2012 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) I guess basically they just are not on the same "wavelength" in many ways. Just my opinion, but, to me, the screaming and roaring and their threat display behaviors in general just put them out of the human parameter. I believe they have a sense of humor similar to ours, but, without a common language, humor is slapstick, physical stuff. Smacking a house and running off is definitely in that category. It might be a joke, but the laugh is on us. More Three Stooges than To Kill a Mockingbird/Boo Radley. If I wanted to attract them, I would bring a small group of people together, regularly, say every five days, in one spot, and have them sing or play live music. A barbershop quartet, a small choir, a string quartet, a folk ensemble, that kind of thing. Same time of day. Just sing to the tree line and see what happens. I would not put up game cameras, but use remoter cameras with zoom or something. High up. Edited March 23, 2012 by Kings Canyon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronD Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Whatever MikeG, think what you want. I refuse to argue with you. Art, congrats on your success, thats great! But as a whole, a lot of good strides for a cure have been set aside in the interest of profit--not going any further with that....gets political, yadda yadda yadda....And I have seen natural cures work (they have nothing to do with the "archaic" mumbo jumbo you mentioned), I don't need proof, and I don't need to win an arguement. Just like, if bigfoot exists, I'm sure somewhere there's a farmer that has them hangin out regularly on his property and to that man he needs no proof, but others will not believe him; they will laugh, argue, demand scientific evidence etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MikeG Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Well said Art. There is a curious ambivalence to science in some people here, some thoughtless throw-away lines, and some crazy ideas about what it has and has not achieved. I'd love to be able to drop some people back in time by 200 or 300 years and let them stay there for a while, then haul them back here for a little chat about their views on our scientific progress. Oh, and there are plenty of dead people who would still be alive if they hadn't relied on "natural cures". There is something truly bizarre about arguing that science hasn't made enough progress, and then a couple of posts later saying that we've got to ignore science and go with the "natural cures". Mike Edited March 23, 2012 by MikeG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBorn Posted March 23, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 23, 2012 Are you sure about that? Yes, check the TV and you will see that they do not work.How many times have they tried to attract these creatures for the cameras with no luck.They are not stupid and they know and yes it is time to change tactics that work.Interaction and habituation works and there are cases out there that people are having.These creatures know who they want to deal with and when and on their terms.But everyone is so stuck that they are apes which could be the case but they have enough intelligence that makes them evasive to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jodie Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 You have to be consistent, and you have to be predictable. So my recommendation is to use objects and techniques that are used therapeutically to try to make a connection with autistic children in a habituation type setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BFSleuth Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I can't recall where I read this recently, but I remember someone noting that they like to take pieces of brightly colored cloth. If you are going to have a gift exchange, then I think Jodie's observation regarding the similarities to autism is well worth noting. Document what they take from a selection of items (they rarely seem to take everything if they have a choice) and document what they leave behind. I was also thinking along another line, how autistics often need to have everything "in its place". For example, the books in the bookshelf all have to be in a certain order and they can't function until all the books are in the proper place. Extending this to BF, I remember some researchers getting stones, bones, feathers, or sticks placed in a certain pattern on the ground and then making a rearrangement. I'll have to look back through the data to see if there was a certain pattern the BF (or unknown entity) had to have. Another avenue of research, though more risky, would be to rearrange some of their stick structures. That might be more risky because if they are territory markers and you mess with them it might be perceived as an attempt to take their territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Great thread, best on the site right now Robert Morgan among many (and I use his name b/c of his "Fields Obserer's manual) have been saying this for some time, and reporting their results. The "wildlife" method has some benefits, b/c it is repeatable for scientific method..and so far we don't have much in the "human" evidence except anecdotal. That doesn't mean we can't designy those experiments, but w/o the direct observation available to jane Goodall, it will take some serious consideration. I tried a lot, I mean a lot, of little "experiments" in the field to try and deduce intellgence with startling results (at that time 2009...I knew little of Bf but the Google footprints, Meldrum book and Morgans) that along with the other extrinsic/digital eidence indicated strongly to me genus Homo at a minimum..... so one must come up with a way of testing that BF intelligence while doing so in a fashion others can also "test.". My anecdotal stories are prteey amazing actually, but suffer as all do, they are not useful in scientific method...or are they? They sure informed me in the field and also each new idea I employed, so I think a few minds together and some thinking on this could produce some good ideas. I used small statues, art, tactile objects, containers requiring dexterity and learning (and good for spying otu other wildlife marks) and I used direct intereaction...speaking directly to forest, or singing/entertaining...acknowledging....but i also whipped out all that gear...the IR the NV moncular, the video cams all night, the handyzoom, the flir, the many, many rabbit trails! Now? I suggest sound, and one site....stay with one place one set of BFs, and get to know them, that forest, that 20 acres, and it's resident birds, etc....get to know all the neighbors...and record in sound and keep that going. Then what? LOL if you hae money you can rent FLIR for a month..bout $400...and so on....but just the gas. etc is costly and to do this you must be out there every two weeks...or so...and then what? I think laptops are an interesting way to explore their willingness to get to know us back..they are curious, and do seem choose when they come closer, so.....I used solar small lights etc and also played the laptop....it is demonstrated other primates like tv and will interact with it even. But i didn't get to a 'skype" situation and i think it is an amazingly safe and potentially effective way to test their intelligence.....figure out the remote/power tansmit (and it's getting affordable) and set up a skype or such station.. I know that sounds fantasitcally stupid? Had I the money I already spent getting to this point that is what i would try next...with those particualr BFs....not sure i will ever repeat my effort. b/c to what end? I really hope more academics enter this field. Would you allow your kids to go check out say, a stranger who shows up in town, parked by the school, ? offering food and so on? LOL so yeah My expereince was amazing and beautiful and not scary really, once I understood more. However, the "wild mind" id differnt than ours,, maybe deeply different in how neurons form and process even though similar or same genes..the elastic brain ....so, remember they are wild and that informs them primarily for survial..safety first, and we can use that, as no reasonable thinking animal will risk injury w/o good cause...we just hae to limit the causes.... but consider also this...they dont want to know us typically, and so why do we impose our will on them..to seek them out? I did it. I think now, concluding they are human, and knowing how real their lives are, as families and a culture (their culture and really even if "ape") I am really interested in what we as amateurs (or even academics/Gov) should be doing out there? That's why I go back to sound as informative but less invasive. Sometimes I am totally opposed to any food sharing and other times I think why not? Keep it healthy, etc...so, ya know...it just might become illegal to do what I did, or others....as a bad thing. sorry deviated....what experiment can we design that is repeatable, dependable and tests intelligence...beyond observation? Okay I have work today, but I like this thread! Edited March 23, 2012 by apehuman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BFSleuth Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Another aspect I've noted from folks that have habituation and from stories from First Nations is that they talk to the BF in a calm and assuring way. At the least it helps calm you down and as with the same effect with how we talk to dogs or horses can help calm them down and draw them in so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 My take on it is that it is superior in some ways, but not in others, it actually seems to be closest to a human with autism. I don't have enough activity to say for certain, but the things that have gotten a response here are the things that would intrigue a severely autistic child. It seems possible that if a bigfoot ancestor was born with an autism-like condition that might actually be somewhat beneficial in a slow-to-reproduce animal that was possibly viewed as prey by other animals. Possibly even more so if the predator was other related species or populations. Say our common ancestors with the bigfoot were somewhat cannibalistic or murderously territorial. An autistic version might be able to protect itself better by seeking places where others of their kind didn't normally go. There would be the difficulty of finding mates to pass the trait on to future generations though. Most autistic individuals are not especially gregarious but possibly some of them may have been able to get past the social hurdle (perhaps the trait wasn't so severe as modern autism in humans is). Over multiple generations they would likely accumulate more genes to compensate for the reduced sociality while improving their obscurity. For a species that goes it alone, size may be an issue. Larger individuals would be better able to take down prey, travel long distances, and weather adversity in general. Could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 absolutely agree.. I had a few songs i foveored and also harmonica...kids nursery rymes, etc and also played often at dusk natie Ameircan flute on CD.... so I got to the point where I feel, but cannot prove, they have a culture that is deep and an intelligence that is far beyond typical large primate and more akin to hunter gather...and so? My effort raises more questions in my mind than answered, except that Bf are real, and a great deal 'like" us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MikeG Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) I'm thinking, BFS, that re-arranging a stick structure could be the equivalent of some uninvited stranger coming into your house to adjust the roof-timbers! You might want a particularly strong reason to be doing that in my house............ - Some of the standard aspects of autism include the inability to understand body language or to read facial expressions, an utter dependance on routine and order, a complete lack of a sense of direction, voice-modulation issues (ie might talk at the same volume whether you are standing next to them or standing 50 yards away, and not understand why you can't hear them), and I can't honestly, see how any of these would be comparable to the behaviours attributed to sasquatch. However, one thing that might be directly useful is that many autistic people have what is colloquially known as a "photographic memory". I guess what I am saying is that I would be really cautious about taking this analogy very seriously. Mike Edited March 23, 2012 by MikeG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Hey BFSleuth, I must be autistic too then cuz I LOVE loud music! lol Seriously, that's an interesting concept tho about the comparison. There's a lot of research that supports the contention that autism is caused by early vaccines, doubt BF had his immunizations, hmmmmm very very interesting. No nono there is no valid research indicating vaccinations have anything to do with autism. The most compelling work currently suggests there are several forms of autism and that at least some of them are genetic in origin. Bigfoot could be a case in point. The groups that make this claim about vaccinations do so without any actual scientific evidence, The biggest reason for the increase in autism reports is due to better reporting and "lumping" a larger number of conditions under the same name even as these conditions are not all alike. Vaccination formulations have also changed over the decades and these changes cannot be linked to autism either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) My feeling is that in general the way scientific discoveries are made today is not necessarily conducive to finding an elusive, solitary, animal. Back in the 19th and early 20th centuries you had large, sponsored, scientific expeditions that explored remote areas of the Earth for months and years at a time. You had explorers canvassing parts of Africa and the Amazon on foot, in the field, for long periods of time. They took photographs, collected specimens, etc. all while immersed in the wilds. Now research is done in an office in some University somewhere, on a theoretical level. It seems that field research is limited to weekend trips and very short term observations in areas that are easy to get to. You won't see a 2 year expedition to the Canadian wilderness, on foot, to find Bigfoot. But, I think that is what it ultimately will take. Just going to the local game preserve or National park for an overnight or weekend look-see isn't going to do it. I also believe BF to be an ape or animal. All of his known behavior certainly fits with apes - tree knocking, howling, bluffing, throwing rocks, nesting, etc. Edited March 23, 2012 by Shelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBorn Posted March 23, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 23, 2012 Talking to them helps but does not calm them or me down.Not when you know you have three or four near by and they are all knocking and making noise near your bait pile.I mean you know that they are ready to ambush deer and they are preparing to do so.They some how let you know that they do not want you around when the deed is going down so they throw things at you ,but some how you get these thoughts for you to leave.I do not see where they might have this attraction with us nor do I believe that it could be that they are like autistic.They are living being trying to survive and if we interfere they are going to let us know and they do not care.They like to play games except their games are not the games that we play.Their games are the games that give you nightmares and every noise that they make has meaning.They are the true master of hide and seek and when it comes down to helping one of there own well they will do what ever it takes.They truely know what it is to look out for themselves.I have watched little ones wave their arms in excitement from afar when i have hooted to them and it all seemed like a dream but yet it i was so real in day light. Nah you can try what ever to attract these creatures but if your spirit is not in tune then then their is no chance.They are a living entity or being from our past that understands us.They have knowledge that we might not yet understand,knowledge on how to survive in our wilderness.All this great knowledge has been past down through the generations of their past to the future.Rather then trying to gain a body it would be wiser to gain this knowldge from them.Just my opionion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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