Are We Going About This All Wrong?

[Bonehead74]

NO ONE can make any judgement on the topic of the Sasquatch being human or non-human before we have one thing: a body. Before this event occurs (IF it occurs), all claims of the Sasquatch being human or non-human is completely speculatory!

From dictionary.com:

Judgement- The ability to judge, make a decision, or form an opinion objectively, authoritatively, and wisely; the forming of an opinion, estimate, notion, or conclusion, as from circumstances presented to the mind, or the opinion formed.

From the above, it seems that anyone who doesn't have some sort of cognitive disability, and who takes the time to weigh the available evidence, is sufficiently qualified to make a judgement about the nature of bigfoot. I do agree that it is still only speculation, but it is possible.

They're primates, every researcher agrees on that.

Demonstrably false. There are a number of researchers who do not concede the bigfoot=primate argument. Agree with their view or not, you are incorrect when declaring that every researcher believes that sasquatch is a primate.

But are there any researchers who think they're monkeys or prosimians?

I don't know (and neither do you). I would venture a guess that there might be some researcher out there who believes this. Ultimately, this question is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Didn't think so.

I don't think your sarcasm is quite justified based on the above.

You see, the main problem here is the age-old feud of Human v.s. Non-Human. It has seperated researchers since the 1970s. You had guys like Robert W. Morgan and Peter Byrne who thought they were more on the human side, then you have guys like Grover Krantz and John Green who though they were more on the animal side. It's just one big argument that is completely unnecessary.

Have you read and understood my original post?

Of course, I realize that we don't know what sasquatch are, so my idea might sound a bit too presumptuous. Looking at it from a scientific perspective though, when your experiment(s) produce(s) unexpected results (or no results at all), at some point you need re-examine your hypothesis and/or change your experimental protocols (Although I admit to harboring some doubts about science's ability to analyze the bigfoot question, but that's for another thread...). Remember that old definition of insanity? "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over while each time expecting a different result." Could it be that we'll be chasing our own tails until we acknowledge that we are up against a comparable intelligence and modify our research methods accordingly? Food for thought.

I can't help but suspect you haven't.

And in response to another member's post:

I intended this to be a thread not about what we think bigfoot is, but about the techniques and underlying mindset we use to try to learn about them.

This is the question I'm asking, based on the possibility that we have grossly underestimated their intelligence and reasoning abilities, not whether bigfoot is a human vs some other great ape. I feel I've made that abundantly clear. You've made a series of declarative statements that are neither axiomatic, self-evident, or even practically demonstrable, and which leave no room for discussion or debate. Your statements are opinions and beliefs (which you are rightfully entitled to) asserted as fact. That is all I take exception to. Please consider the difference in tone that posts containing your beliefs would have when prefaced with something like "In my opinion..." or "I think that...".

Edited March 24, 2012 by Bonehead74

[Guest]

Well, I think most researchers agree they are primates, barring metaphysical speculations.

[Bonehead74]

Ace,

^{They're primates, every researcher agrees on that.}

Italics mine. Most does not = every, and I'm not barring metaphysical speculations.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Bonehead74

[bipedalist]

.......

^{They're primates, every researcher agrees on that}

^.....

Ever consider you might have a good signature line there ?

[Guest]

Most importantly is to have fun with it, don't get to serious and always have a secondary reason for being there. Be it hiking for exercise or reducing stress by enjoying nature in the great outdoors.

[Shelly]

Now when I go hiking I look for free donuts and bacon

[AaronD]

Shelly what? LOL

Good point, Kerry, dual purpose You always feel better after a long hike in the woods.

Any more thoughts BH? Anyone heard of the story of a small child lost in the woods and a female sasquatch found her and carried her toward her house then safely placed the child in a tree for her parents to find her? Maybe just a story? I dunno.

[Guest BFSleuth]

AaronD, I believe you are referring to one of my favorite reports. It is the story told by a man who is dying, recalling being saved by a BF when he was 5 years old. He was lost in the woods and a "gorilla woman" picked him up and "....cut through the forest like butter..." then put him in a place his parents could find him, pinning him to the ground with a large branch!

Smart woman!

http://www.bfro.net/gdb/show_report.asp?id=5333

I would encourage anyone following this thread to also read Historical Evidence for the Existence of Relect Hominids. The link is on the OP here:

http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?/topic/29570-historical-evidence-for-the-existence-of-relect-hominoids/

This is the first essay posted in Dr. Meldrum's new journal, Relect Hominid Inquiry. In particular note the legends and reports from a variety of places that indicate people interacted in a very cooperative way with their versions of BF (almasty, trolls, etc.). Interesting background into how our ancestors thought of the BF phenomena.

[Shelly]

Shelly what? LOL

On Finding Bigfoot they leave bacon and donuts out as bait

[Guest]

Whatchoo talkin' bout 'Ace!'?

[AaronD]

Oh ok Shelly, gotcha I heard of bacon, but donuts?? Really?? lol

BF, that may well be the story I heard. A native American told it to me in rather vague terms so most likely. I'm guessing sasquatches are kind hearted anyways.

You mentioned you have experience working with autistic kids? Are you TSS, BSC? Masters degree?

[Guest]

field expereince May 2009: I left about 2 dozen fruit at creekside in a location doubtful any humans would stop (my assessment then and now). I also placed a small clay bust I had made, (bored in camp, and thinking the "Morgan" method) of what I imagined a BF head to look like. It was red air dry clay, .The bust about 4" high and weighed about 1/3 pound. I put this bust under a big tree on the upper terrace of the drainage, snug in the roots, but "looking" out over the plain about 20 yards or so away, and about 10 feet above, the fruit at creek's edge. I also left a neon green tennis ball tucked in the roots.

Once home I viewed a video and discovered a brief, 30 frames, of movement that looks like a BF, with hands! I watched it 200 times and then drove back four days later. Checked for the fruit and it was gone! No tracks, no raccoon, no squirrel, no deer at creekside..and the bust was also gone....I was with another and we looked for some time, finally dicovering the remaining fruit (almost all the oranges, but just a few apples).tucked under a root cavity in the embankment about 40 yards upstream. AND, next to the fruit facedown and pushed into soil, butted against a small sapling, was the clay bust! No tracks...we left plenty.

We didn't find the ball, looked at a radius in excess of 60 yards....(most interesting:, as I often stopped over that summer to search for the ball, I was surprised when it reappearred about two months later boldly set out on a four foot tree stump within just a few yards of the original fruit at creek location....! amazing...modern humans don't do that,...do squirrels?

The video was tripping me out, the experiences camping alone previous two trips had all the BF signs, smell, tracks, whistling, howls...and I tried to blow it off, after the second trip my family revolted, they didn't want crazy......but the video pushed me back for that thrid trip to find all this stuff moved and cached, tucked safe under a root, but above the flash flood level.....

I am familair with pack rats and raccoons, etc....but never knew quite this type of behavior....not reaching what seemed to be a conclusion "these are the same" (...by scent? shape? location radius 20 yards?)" and so "collect them together and store"...and not at the nest or trashed as a raccoon would, not to mention it would have been five or so trips for even a full handed raccoon to move over a dozen fruits......and no teeth marks in clay bust.... so ya know...the only remianing possibility people. but again just not modern people behavior and no people tracks...we left plenty....

that began the program to communicate directly, or interact and try and assess if they would respond to symbols....another 20 plus trips...and my personal opinion is they are way beyond any "primate" we have dealt with other than ourselves.

Edited March 26, 2012 by apehuman

[AaronD]

Wow! Interesting story! Even if it was a squirrel one that can carry that kinda cargo is a find indeed, but probably a squatch! What state was this in?

[Guest Jodie]

I got some kind of response by leaving a large refrigerator magnret with my cigarette bait. It might be a human doing this, but whatever it was, left the magnet standing up with one of my clear covers used to cover the cigarette over it.

The second time it took the bait , it tore the magnets off the back of the fridge magnet and stuck the two on the metal plant stand. I was going to try more and stick them all over the place out there, magnets with animal figures, or something I think might be recognizable to them, just to see what happens.

Like you Apehuman, I was trying to see if they respond to symbols in some kind of way.

[Guest]

Did you ever think of experimenting with sidewalk chalk? It would be interesting to see if something happens with it.