Operation Persistence

[Guest]

It's somewhat of a sideshow because no matter what you are presenting, or anyone else for that matter, bigfoot never shows up. It's like a circus that advertises elephants as the main attraction, and after you pay your admission, you see all sort of acts, but never any elephants. If mainstream science is expected to be open to the thought of bigfoot, then treat bigfoot as a scientific endeavor, not a circus sideshow.

RayG

After all is said and done...this is the reality.

*HOPE SPRINGS ETERNAL*...this is what keeps people in the game.

[Guest RedRatSnake]

After all is said and done...this is the reality.

*HOPE SPRINGS ETERNAL*...this is what keeps people in the game.

With no winner until we humans cover all of the globe and BF has no place left.

[Oonjerah]

It costs Time and Money to host a conference.

If the event is to present "more about Operations Endurance and Persistance,"

then the topic would be Bigfoot Hunters instead of Bigfoot. But for the TBRC

to invite Bigfoot and let him have his say as well only seems fair. That would

not guarantee his appearance, though.

Charging money to attendees seems perfectly appropriate. I suspect TBRC

supporters want to contribute.

[Guest]

Are scientific conferences free? If they are it is only because someone is bankrolling them. Hotels and convention centers are not free. Do you expect the TBRC to foot the bill? What if they use any profit to further fund there research? (I think they have stated that they do use it for that purpose) Is this illegitimate? They have to raise funds somehow. As long as the conference is good I don't see why they shouldn't charge money to cover the costs and to raise funds.

[Guest]

Where does the circus sideshow end and science begin?

Because science is free, right?

Which is to say, the work we do requires the exchange of little pieces of green paper so we can buy equipment, etc. The TBRC is a tax-exempt non-profit organization funded through member dues, our conference, and other donations. Even the driven-snow pure science Ray describes needs funding and gets it in a variety of ways. If a group of volunteer naturalists working their ***** off to raise a little extra money to help fund their group's work is a side show, then so be it.

In addition, I'll point out that the conference is an extension of our educational mandate from our mission statement. Other manifestations of that mandate are the multiple visits to school groups and the presentation we make to clubs and other organizations over the course of the year, all free of charge.

Edited January 12, 2013 by bipto

[Doc Holliday]

bipto makes a good point,equipment,time etc. isn't free,funds must come from somewhere.

bip, so your group goes to clubs,schools etc. with a BF presentation?

with an educational mandate, that is interesting.

do these groups approach your group,or do you solicit to them?

I ask out of interest, basically just wondering how a BF based theme is received among educators etc....

[Guest RedRatSnake]

Couple of good questions there Slick, I won't get much more involved here as my intention is not to rain down on anyone's fun with these conferences, I have been gone for quite a while and just had some stuff I needed to say that had been building for a while, I have always been curious as to what kind of bang for the buck one gets on those things.

I like the idea of visiting school groups, just hope the impression they are left with is one of curiosity, no one wants little Johnny coming home from school telling mommy that a big scary gorilla man went running by him while he was on the bus.

Tim

[Guest]

bip, so your group goes to clubs,schools etc. with a BF presentation?

with an educational mandate, that is interesting.

Our mission statement:

"To investigate and conduct research regarding the existence of the unlisted primate species we refer to as the wood ape, also known as the sasquatch or bigfoot; to facilitate scientific, official and governmental recognition, conservation, and protection of the species and its habitat; and to help further factual education and understanding to the public regarding the species, with a focus mainly in, but not necessarily limited to, the states of Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana."

do these groups approach your group,or do you solicit to them?

They approach us. We receive solicitations for presentations from schools (from early grades all the way through high school), church groups, and other clubs monthly.

Edited January 12, 2013 by bipto

[Guest RayG]

Are scientific conferences free?

Because science is free, right?

It's what you get for that fee that's the huge difference between a science conference and a bigfoot conference.

If I were to attend a conference on sharks, bats, armadillos, hyenas, elephants, dolphins, bigfoot, polar bears, kangaroos, wolverines, tardigrades, penguins, mites, or springtails, I could expect at each and every conference, save one, there would be information, high quality pictures, and discussion about the main attraction. There may even be a specimen on display. They could discuss all sorts of things about the main subject -- diet, range, lifespan, how to better photograph, capture, or tag their main attraction, all sorts of factual information.

If I were to attend a bigfoot conference there is no factual information, all those things are pure speculation, so there could be no such equivalent discussion. There wouldn't be any high quality pictures, nothing save stories of hearing noises, seeing something in woods, finding piles of sticks, how enthusiasts hope to have some definitive evidence in the near future, or how better and more advanced technology is required. Sure, I'd get to meet some of the people I've corresponded with over the years, but deep down I don't think I'd leave having any further knowledge of bigfoot. Without someone actually studying a live or dead specimen, how could I? Speculation may eventually lead to scientific knowledge, but it doesn't equate to it.

Anyone living through the last 40 years can attest to the explosion in technology we've seen over those years. Bigfoot seems one of the very few areas where regardless of how highly sophisticated or advanced the equipment, or how well-trained the pursuers are, nothing that can be inserted into the science books ever turns up.

I don't see how another bigfoot conference is going to change that.

RayG

[Guest DWA]

As one who attended the 2009 Texas Bigfoot Conference I can tell you:

This is cutting-edge science, the way that is conducted.* But most scientists aren't doing cutting-edge science, so they wouldn't recognize that if they saw it.

Some strange bedfellows attend this, including folks who milk the bigfoot thing for its marketing/humor value. That's called good-natured fun, combined with needed $$$$$$.

If you don't like that, bankroll it yourself; or get a few mainstream organizations together and tell them to do it. Or lay off. Ferpetesake.

* Particularly compared to "This is impossible, and we know that because we know nothing about it."

[Guest]

If I were to attend a bigfoot conference there is no factual information, all those things are pure speculation...

That's actually totally wrong. But whatever. Luckily, neither you or anyone else is required to attend.

[NitroSquatch]

I can't prove it, but I would be willing to bet that most willing to pay a fee to attend a bigfoot conference are neither expecting bigfoot "to show up", nor are they expecting to see a specimen (or even high quality photographs). I'm sure those attending a bigfoot conference go for a variety of reasons and motivations, including supporting the efforts of the sponsoring organization, and are willing to pay the fee to do so. I think it is reasonable to assume that some of those interested in this Operation Persistence thread would be interested in the TBRC conference, and so it is reasonable for bipto to include a brief announcement for the event.

I know it was said that this discussion isn't meant to flame at Operation Persistence, but I don't understand why it was necessary to choose this particular time at the mention of this particular conference to draw a "line in the sand" regarding bigfoot conferences, to the possible detriment of this thread. RayG and RRS did bring up some interesting questions, so I feel motivated to start a thread.

[Doc Holliday]

bipto,

thank you for the reply re: educational programs at schools etc.,

if its ok to ask, how would the typical presentation be conducted?

as in what materials are used? pics, testimonies,topics discussed? etc. i guess it suprised me a little that such groups gave the BF/wood ape topic serious consideration (knowing how the public generally treats all things BF).

[Guest]

if its ok to ask, how would the typical presentation be conducted?

as in what materials are used? pics, testimonies,topics discussed? etc.

I've only been present at one (which was at a high school), but there's a PowerPoint-type presentation that goes over some of the basics of presumed wood ape biology and a general intro-level coverage of bigfoot 101, with a slant towards the four state region the TBRC operates in. It's pretty high level stuff, though the kids will occasionally ask some pretty good questions. In any event, it's calibrated to the age level of the audience. Younger kids will see something different than older ones.

i guess it suprised me a little that such groups gave the BF/wood ape topic serious consideration (knowing how the public generally treats all things BF).

Me too at first, but as I said, we get quite a few requests each year. In fact, we have one coming up for a group called Legacy Outfitters in Fort Worth. It's nearly always the case that the presentation goes over well and word of mouth gets us in front of other groups.

Edited January 12, 2013 by bipto

[Guest RayG]

If I were to attend a bigfoot conference there is no factual information, all those things are pure speculation...

That's actually totally wrong. But whatever.

In the 40+ years I've been following this mystery I have yet to see or hear of any factual information about bigfoot. Do you have some factual information about bigfoot? If yes, then forget about bigfoot conferences, that's small potatoes. Take that factual information to Nature and you'll have all the equipment and funding you could ever hope for. If not, then apparently I'm not totally wrong.

I know it was said that this discussion isn't meant to flame at Operation Persistence, but I don't understand why it was necessary to choose this particular time at the mention of this particular conference to draw a "line in the sand" regarding bigfoot conferences, to the possible detriment of this thread.

Because bigfoot history has a really bad habit of repeating itself... over and over and over... it doesn't matter who the organizers are, it doesn't matter where the conference is being held, it doesn't even matter whether a fee is charged or not... short of presenting the topic of discussion, it's just more of the same. Some of us really old-timers have seen it play out time and again, year after year, and the results never change.

I would hope that even Bipto would agree -- If there were some verifiable factual information to be presented, and they really are trying "to facilitate scientific, official and governmental recognition" for this undiscovered creature, they'd be presenting it to the people who identify and classify flora and fauna, not preaching to the choir.

RayG