Guest Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) Bip - I don't know if this has been asked, but have you/TBRC been approached by (or thought about approaching) the Falcon/Aurora Project? If you have an area of well known activity in which to focus those efforts, could that project not help locate these creatures? Edited November 8, 2012 by notgiganto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) Um, ever been to Canada? I hunted Saskatchewan, Buffalo narrows, little peter pond ( should have named it little ocean peter) Wow they have some bush up there, I would not walk out of sight of my tree stand, there were parts up there that you could barely get through on your hands and knees, and miles of it. Truly is god's country, and I think even he would have a chance at "gone missing" Edited November 9, 2012 by zigoapex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 The monkeys?? When and how were they ever catergorized as such?? Scientifically, of course. Sorry, that's just short-hand. They are clearly not monkey. ...wouldn't it advance your case if you and TBRC opened up your Operations to participants who are truly neutral or even skeptical? Shouldn't you be recruiting non-Bigfooters to chronicle your operations? There's a myth out here in the internet that once a person has seen a wood ape and/or has had an experience that establishes the animal's reality for themselves personally, that they turn into something other than that which they were beforehand. That is, I, being a skeptical person by nature, am somehow *not* skeptical anymore just because I've seen and experienced what can only be wood apes and their behavior. That's not true. I and every person I've worked with in the TBRC are skeptical of many claims. Our default position on any new activity or claim is one of skepticism. There really is no other way to work in this field of interest without going mad. In addition, new members are screened to help ensure they exhibit similar judgement. Only those who have proven their merit are elevated to the level of investigator and can assist the organization in bringing this animal to science. So, to answer your question directly, we do actively recruit skeptics. Any new investigator going into X is a skeptical person. I would suggest that your definition of a skeptic is one who does not believe they've ever seen one of these animals and doesn't believe they exist. We don't have the time or energy to waste bringing those people into our area of study as it would do nothing to help accomplish our goal whatsoever. There is always somone who believes they are superior in their discernment and second guessing (throwing under the bus) the previous skeptic. Agreed. Yah, and if it's a real hardheaded skeptic, if there's activity it's "too convenient" . Agreed. Bip - I don't know if this has been asked, but have you/TBRC been approached by (or thought about approaching) the Falcon/Aurora Project? If you have an area of well known activity in which to focus those efforts, could that project not help locate these creatures? We have not. My personal opinion is that arial surveillance would be unlikely to garner any conclusive evidence in X based on the density of the tree cover. However, I'm following the Falcon project with interest and wish them luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbear Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 So, I am in the middle of listening to BS ep. 39, and I am struck by something: the TBRC members are pushing the notion that what they are observing strictly exhibits ape behaviors - yet they detail elsewhere how the creatures somehow detected and moved cameras in what I would call an intelligent way. ??? Another detail that strikes me as less than "apelike" is the tossing back and forth of stones with these wild wood apes. Could gorilla or chimp researchers play such a game with those wild apes, or does that hint at something closer to human intelligence? (honest question) I guess I have to readily admit that I have not been in the "ape" camp for some time, as the bipedal locomotion, human-like morphology (if Patty is any real indication), and continued evasion of detection (even when using cutting edge technology) seems to indicate to me something closer to human (but definitely not modern human)... I am open minded to the reality of these things, whatever that might be, but some aspects of purported behaviors just don't jibe with "ape" in my mind. Perhaps that is due to my own ignorance, as I am certainly NOT a primate specialist or an anthropologist. They also mentioned "counting up" their human persuers. Does not sound apeish to me, though many of their behaviors are no doubt ape-like. Hopefully some more knowledgable members here can help me see the errors in my thinking. I can't wait to hear more from the TBRC as far as data that they are NOT talking about, holding back, or yet have yet to collate. A little late to this discussion but nothing like retrieving an old thread Just to touch on a few things mentioned 1st, not to sound like a smart a$$ but humans are classified as Apes, chimps, orang's, bonobo's, gorilla's and humans make up the great apes. So years ago a watched a fascinating documentary on chimp intelligence, primarily focusing on their "snap shot, photographic memory" and in all tests chimps out performed humans or any age. Tests would be something like, 9 numbers would flash in random places on a computer and only stay visible for fraction of a second then disappear and get replaced by a box. Chimp or human would have to touch the boxes in correct number order, 1-9 as numbers appeared during flash. Amazing chimps would get it right almost every time all 9 numbers. Most humans could not get more than 6 before they started to have to guess. And it showed that chimps have an amazing flash focus memory which is very beneficial for survival in the wild when living in a troop dynamic. A second neat study i saw was problem solving. 5yr olds (accepted as being similar to chimp intellect) and chimps where given a black puzzle box and then taken through and exact sequence of moves of the puzzle box to gain access to a treat in side. Test subjects practiced until they could do it correctly consecutive times. THEN, the black box was replaced by a clear box where all the internal workings were visible and the box was the exact same otherwise. With this box, the chimp was able to see that all the moves were not needed to get the treat and that you could simply pull out the last piece and get the treat and they immediately did so. where as the 5yr olds would still go through the entire sequence of moves to get the treat despite being able to see that it was attainable with out the moves. This also shows that chimps are visual animals, much more than a human. in short, chimps can most certainly keep track of their physical surroundings, much better than humans. would a BF be more chimp like or more human like? i can only speculate Like someone else said, animals are often aware of camera's be it odor, sound, or visual for different species. Primates are weary of any thing that looks like an eye like a camera lens. like humans they have a lot of non verbal communication, lots of it based around the eyes. I have had experience working with spider monkeys and we would always advise people to never wear sunglasses especially the Oakley sport type. the large almost "glaring eyes" of those lenses would get them quite agitated. ummm i think that is about all i have to say. So take home message is all animals perceive the world differently and i think it is hard to wrap our heads around how amazing some animal senses are, like a sharks ability to detect blood, a bears ability to smell, or a mouses ability to sense with its whiskers. Human senses suck but we got a big ol brain to make up for it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Willing to let a Expert Riflemen help out with a Tranq gun? 1 shot 1 snooze from this Marine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 A well-placed shot is only one aspect of using tranquilizers. As I've mentioned before, we have no way of knowing what dosage an ape would need. It's very likely it would run off after being hit and either not be affected, sleep, or die and we'd never know. In addition, we don't know what size animal we're like to encounter, so even if we had the right dosage for a full-grown animal, it might be too much or too little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Um, ever been to Canada? Yes I have been there. And there is nothing like the thorns and plants that will tear chunks from your flesh like the African Bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 *facepalm* Argument from ignorance again... look up buckthorns and naturalisation of european hawthorns and blackthorns, consider brambles, varieties of wild rose and family... Oh, some of those naturalised and invasive hawthorns in the east are the same **** ones that are in Africa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 All apes scare me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Bipto- wouldn't it be better to guess at the weight or have a couple differant dosages on hand that just shot a BF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) A well-placed shot is only one aspect of using tranquilizers. As I've mentioned before, we have no way of knowing what dosage an ape would need. It's very likely it would run off after being hit and either not be affected, sleep, or die and we'd never know. In addition, we don't know what size animal we're like to encounter, so even if we had the right dosage for a full-grown animal, it might be too much or too little. Yeah, wouldn't want to accidentily kill one with an overdose.... Seriously? You will sling lead but don't want to risk a tranq shot? Gonna go out on a limb here and say a grizzly or moose analog dose size would be more than adequate. The point is moot for the rest of your response as we all can determine that TBRC is using live rounds without regards for the factors you mention in the tranq shot scenario. Edited November 10, 2012 by Woodswalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incorrigible1 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Kibbitz, much? Personally, I appreciate the updates from Bipto, and accept them as they are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I keep forgetting to say that... yah much appreciate being kept up to date, thanks! Let's just say that making thorough plans for a live extraction would waste a hell of a lot of money over shooting it in the first place if it's gonna end up dead anyway.... and add more potential points of failure to something that isn't exactly a walk in the park already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I appreciate the updates as well. I already posted to that effect multiple times in this very thread. The justification made to counter my honest offer is lacking in logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 there is other factors with a tranq gun, range, one shot, very hard to make a good shot in heavy brush, safety( hitting one only to **** it off, and it beats you like you were in a cartoon witch still might happen with a gun). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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