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Habituators Evidence

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Guest DWA

All I can say is: folks come at everything from all angles, this too.

Given the prevailing attitude of scoffing on this topic, I wouldn't be surprised that some people know - to the point of practically living with them - and have decided the rest of the world can go hang.

I don't need their proof if they don't want to provide it.

All I say to them is: if you publish a book, charge money, and expect me to buy it...the proof better be in it. That's all.

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Guest

All I say to them is: if you publish a book, charge money, and expect me to buy it...the proof better be in it. That's all.

lol I take it you own no BF books? Or are a dissatisfied customer? I have read a few, and none, even Meldrum's, have come close to proof. But, I still found a good deal of valid info in all of them, as well as not so good info....the more the merrier I think, on BF books and a good story, although I would prefer the line between knowing and interpreting were tighter for some...

Watch reviews..the good stuff rises, even if controversial to some, There are a few are still on my list to read, even though I know the ending!.

Edited by apehuman

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Guest DWA

lol I take it you own no BF books? Or are a dissatisfied customer? I have read a few, and none, even Meldrum's, have come close to proof. But, I still found a good deal of valid info in all of them, as well as not so good info....the more the merrier I think, on BF books and a good story, although I would prefer the line between knowing and interpreting were tighter for some...

Watch reviews..the good stuff rises, even if controversial to some, There are a few are still on my list to read, even though I know the ending!.

I own several, all of which are thoughtful compendia of the overall evidence and thoughtful, science-based takes on that evidence.

I'd expect a habituator's account, from what I have seen, to be the habituator's story, in other words, a sighting report. I can get tons of those, for free.

Edited by DWA

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Guest VioletX

Are the vast majority of habituators female?

I guess it does make researching a whole lot easier if those lovely big hairy people somehow enjoy hanging around on your property. Much better than camping out in those horrible, scary, uncomfortable woods for weeks at a time.

MarkGlascow, I have deducted you a point for that one... :wizard:

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kbhunter

DWA, what part of the bookstore do you go to? Fiction, Non-fiction, mysteries? Most of these books are written as accounts told by other people. Some are based on interactions with the author, but they are presented as what they are experiencing. I know many authors and they write mainly for those of us that want to hear and learn more about what we do. They do not write these books to convince the world.

KB

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Guest

I am not here to convince anyone that I am telling the truth. I am here to learn from others that have had contact with BF, and maybe help someone that finds themselves in a similar situation. Every time I step out the door I look for them. Every time. How'd you like to be watching TV with your family at night and then you smell them outside. You know they are close. I can't just let the dog out at night. I have to walk it on a leash. Believe what you will.

I might be able to get you hair samples, but I am not going to do anything that might make my girl say "I can't live here anymore". It isn't worth the risk. Pics/video - no, hair samples or audio - maybe. That said, don't we already have enough hair and waste samples out there? Is anyone going to do anything with audio? Where, in the wide world of sports, are the DNA results we've heard so much about? I hope Chris Noel is correct about 2013 being the year the truth comes out. If it doesn't, it is very probably because a group of us (humans) doesn't want it to come out.

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Guest DWA

DWA, what part of the bookstore do you go to? Fiction, Non-fiction, mysteries? Most of these books are written as accounts told by other people. Some are based on interactions with the author, but they are presented as what they are experiencing. I know many authors and they write mainly for those of us that want to hear and learn more about what we do. They do not write these books to convince the world.

KB

The only point I'm making is: I'm not spending good money on something that is JUST one person's account, because any SINGLE account could be anything.

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Guest

Apehuman- three plusses for you and KB both. Somehow your trust will be tested early on because somehow the BF seem to sence motive and have a built in sence as to how to get you to display your reason for seeking interaction.

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MarkGlasgow

MarkGlascow, I have deducted you a point for that one... :wizard:

I Thought you might!

Apehuman- three plusses for you and KB both. Somehow your trust will be tested early on because somehow the BF seem to sence motive and have a built in sence as to how to get you to display your reason for seeking interaction.

While most of us struggle with the reality of their existence we have some who claim to have incredible knowledge of their mental capabilities. All of which, is of course passed off as fact.

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Guest thermalman

I'd spend a week at a habituator's property with my thermals if that's what it takes to get the proof. I'd sign the NDAs needed and help out where I could. :)

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Guest

^ IF and right now it is only if, we ever get DNA studies that confirm the existence of BF with some of that evidence coming from habituation sites, will you admit that you might be wrong?

If a real bigfoot is ever brought in for science, alive or dead, I'll be most pleased to concede the existence of bigfoot. If the DNA studies do not prove bigfoot will you admit you might be wrong?

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Guest DWA

If a real bigfoot is ever brought in for science, alive or dead, I'll be most pleased to concede the existence of bigfoot. If the DNA studies do not prove bigfoot will you admit you might be wrong?

Really, if the DNA studies don't prove bigfoot there's no need for anyone to admit anything.

Anyone might be wrong about anything - including scientists, about things now considered scientific fact. Nobody's mind needs to change on this topic based on this DNA review (which I have a funny feeling isn't going to get us anywhere).

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Guest

I own several, all of which are thoughtful compendia of the overall evidence and thoughtful, science-based takes on that evidence.

I'd expect a habituator's account, from what I have seen, to be the habituator's story, in other words, a sighting report. I can get tons of those, for free.

hummm, which are those? Krantz? Meldrum? Napier? or Raincoast Sasquatch, or Tribal BF....because to me, almost all BF books do amount to basically witness accounts, and perhaps some reliance on the author/editor's ability to gauge the subjects truth or accuracy. with the exception of tracks, and that, in terms of info is available for free as well on the net (Meldrum's paper for example, or Chilcotts, and so on). I think Noel's book is also a collection? What you are singling out is the single experience voice. In first person or third? It may not matter to you even then.

I don't own any of those either, for the same reason, but I do think they play an important role because. the individuals who is have repeated contact, or observations over time, may give us insight into behavior those compendiums of science based books won't...and are often more inspiring about our Natural World and cause for thought and appreciation, if not proof of their claims...

and btw we all know books are not peer-reviewed...and not admissible evidence for the facts they present (in court) unless an authoritative text and none rise to that, not even in the running.

Edited by apehuman

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Guest DWA

^^^^All of that conceded, I'm more interested in what people with scientific chops have to say about a host of consistent accounts than in what one person has to say about one person's experience.

Until there's proof, none of it has more weight than any other part of it in the eyes of science, but in the case of the Meldrum/Alley/Shackley/Bindernagel etc. ilk, consistencies are being shown among large numbers of accounts that make clear how unlikely it is that they're all false positives.

No matter how detailed...one person's story is one person's story. When that's about an animal that the society doesn't even accept as real yet...

Edited by DWA

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Guest

Habituators are not nessesarily out for discovery or having to prove to scoffers or impatient hunters that Bigfoot exsists. The interaction with Sasquatch is a wonderous relationship of discovery between the parties involved only; kind of like an invitation only get togeather. Trust is established after many, many interactions and is hard earned and can be revoked at anytime that established boundaries are comprimised. The value is not in letting the world in on your intimate relationship with BF but the growing understanding of that relationship in itself and relized as that relationship grows.

Let me just say, discovery will come in due time and IMHO should not be rushed for personal gain or glory. Any motive that deals with protection should be ONLY for the benifit of the Sasquatch and science can wait. The Sasquatch need zero protection from the habituators who have their motives inline with what benifits their relationship with Sasquatch and nothing else should matter. The relationship is paramont and guarded. Futhermore the insistance of the pro-kill camp with their "put up or shut up" attitude is enough to any true habituator to see the danger and red flags. Enough said; the relationship is paramont and proving anything is a brek in trust which has no chance of a habituator falling for.

As far a taking one for a type specimen? Do you know who you are killing? And do you really think that is the scientific course for protection, hardly. Sasquatch and the protection of would be to prohibit those "types" specifically.

This is right on.

I keep hearing all this stuff about proof. Pictures and videos and audios will all be called fake no matter how clear they are. DNA will prove nothing! The best you can get is unknown primate. That says nothing. I doubt very much anyone will ever kill one or it would have been done by now. For those who claimed to have done that. Where is the skull?If a skull could be produced, then it could be described. All these people in the pro-kill group all say they want to do this to protect them, by having science recognize them and then place them on the endangered list. Guess what folks they are ineligible to be on the endangered list. The best way to protect them is to keep them a myth. If you want proof, then it has to be a personal thing, one on one. That involves trust between you and them. Stop shouting that you want proof and go out and get it yourself. And be changed in the process.

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