Habituators Evidence

[Guest]

I don't know of any BF habituators who can be compared to Goodall -- and I don't mean this as an insult -- but she spent five years as a full time researcher with "eyes on" her chimpanzees before publishing, during which time she was operating under the guidance of experienced zoologists and anthropologists. She had not only a detailed journal, but photographic evidence to back it up. Moreover, she went through the scholarly process and her work has been validated by subsequent research.

Jane Goodall is in a class by herself. however she wasn't then, she did go public without proof, and so did Leaky.. with just a few months left on his original 6 month funding he went public big to drum up more funds,,and the news?.Chimps use tools! They released that then controversial finding on her observation, and her without a degree, but with Leakey's endorsement, even though he did not witness it, he believed her. He got his funding, and the critics did howl till they produced more. She did go and earn a PhD and sets the standard many aspire to in many primate disciplines and beyond, as in her institution..and charity.

I imagine today there are many field anthropologists that might feel they do a better job observing, etc... as for BFer that compare...well would anyone believe just their witness, even if Meldrum believed them?

Your last paragraph seems to be in the wrong thread and maybe a spill over from your thoughts in the Ketchum thread or Tyler's? I don't deride skeptics, I do lament their disbelief sometimes, but I also rarely engage with people who aren't actively involved in some kind of field work (or wishing they were) and already on-board that BFs exist (or willing to believe credible witnesses) ..so, I was just asking where you were at on that so I know >>>and no offense taken or intended.

just in case you wonder why I tend to limit to field, or willing to believe, types...because I have yet to meet a skeptic on line or in person that has been of any help to me or the bigger picture, and more often than not I feel they have taken my sincere energy for sport...(but not you I know!) I think many try and distinguish between skeptics, in some pure sense of advancing knowledge in rational ways, and to scoff-ette (sp?)...it's hard on this end to tell the difference, so don't let me stop you really, many people do love engaging in the debate here.

Edited March 5, 2013 by apehuman

[indiefoot]

It's not honest to lump all skeptics together with the scoftics, nor is it honest to lump all long term witnesses together with Janice Carter. I share what I have found with those that I trust to protect my investement in my area of study.

Why is it we have this idea that only proponents can be less than honest and straightforward?

[LeafTalker]

Why is it we have this idea that only proponents can be less than honest and straightforward?

I know this doesn't add anything to the discussion, but I just have to say: Excellent question, indiefoot. Excellent question.

[Sunflower]

I agree

[Guest]

You are making similar mistakes/assumptions as Leisureclass above and using the words Bigfoot ..humm, what? Researcher? Prover? Hunter? might be more appropriate ..that way folks like Moneymaker, or Biscardi, or Fasano, Dyer, or any number of well know Bigfoot pursuers aren't left out of our perception of who is seeking attention. Seems that line doesn't reside exclusively with Habuituators (or even Bigfoot Researcher Critics!)..and is a phenomenon of humanity.

In the Habituating Thread in this forum many who have had repeated witnesses have shared those items you request, video, photos, sound...pretty much all the same evidence anyone has collected and falls short of proof. The depth of their experiences however, might exceed what we learn from the "hunter/tracker" type when it comes to behavior and understanding. Habituators have also contributed DNA samples.. You can see my attempt too share (the link in that thread to, at the end).

"A waste of time to do this and not prove,"...because the claims aren't proven...is also an assumption on your part that misleads you, at least for me, it doesn't feel like a waste of time...anything but.... posting in this forum however, or talking with those whose minds are set does sometimes!

.

Suit yourself. I believe the animal exists, or could exist, based on the PGF and the Native American stories. After that, most videos and pictures can be attributed to people just trying to get attention. I'm sure there are many eyewitness accounts that were real sightings, but only those people know for sure. The pattern of "habituators" seems a bit sketchy to me, as does the people who find "irrefutable proof" up to and including a body, then postpone showing the proof for months or even years. I'm still fascinated by the subject, just not the charlatans.

[Guest]

I believe the animal exists, or could exist,

and that is where our opinions diverge significantly...but,

I agree about charlatans, but do think Habituators are probably under represented in that crowd.

Edited March 6, 2013 by apehuman

[Guest DWA]

I love it when "habituators" come to a website and talk about all the encounters, pics and video, the hand feeding, names they've given the animals, prints, hair, ect... Then, when asked to supply proof they uniformly quote, "I'm not here to prove anything, believe it or not, I don't care. I've spent a lot of time posting, chatting and laying out all the evidence and my special relationship with BF, but I'm not here to prove anything." Really? You wasted all that time and effort to prove nothing? I doubt it. Who needs attention that badly? I guess if you watch reality TV, it's clear that there are quite a few people who need attention, and will do **** near anything to get it. Someday, somehow, someone will bring in a body. They will be the only person who deserves, and gets all the attention.

I am sure there are folks who wanna make waves (many of those liars no doubt). But i think many of them just want to share with each other what they can share with no one else.

This is after all the BFF and not the WASHINGTON POST.

[Guest njjohn]

I think some might be confusing the claims made by habituators and claims by some that are seeking attention.

*Most* of those that hang out in the habituator threads are there to tell their story. They explain behaviors and what they witness and don't ask for anything in return.

Those that claim to be habituators and then say "it's in my book," or they are trying to get you to buy something, those are the people that have a burden to provide proof.

Two completely different types of people. The first group come here because they don't feel they can share their information anywhere else without ridicule. Telling a story doesn't carry a burden of proof. It's up to the reader to see if they can find any holes and either accept or dismiss the reports. The second group go everywhere to make sure their story is heard. They want something for their story. Those are the people that you should expect to see something more from. They have the burden of proof on them.

[Guest DWA]

^^^exactly.

[Guest]

I think some might be confusing the claims made by habituators and claims by some that are seeking attention.

*Most* of those that hang out in the habituator threads are there to tell their story. They explain behaviors and what they witness and don't ask for anything in return.

Those that claim to be habituators and then say "it's in my book," or they are trying to get you to buy something, those are the people that have a burden to provide proof.

Two completely different types of people. The first group come here because they don't feel they can share their information anywhere else without ridicule. Telling a story doesn't carry a burden of proof. It's up to the reader to see if they can find any holes and either accept or dismiss the reports. The second group go everywhere to make sure their story is heard. They want something for their story. Those are the people that you should expect to see something more from. They have the burden of proof on them.

If you are going to claim to understand BF behavior, be prepared for someone to ask "how do you know?". If your answer is "none of your business, you'll just have to take my word for it", be prepared for people to lend very little credence to your claim. The first person to truly understand BF behavior, will probably be the first person to bring one in. Up to that, it's all conjecture.

[Sasfooty]

You don't have to understand it to be subjected to it & to discuss it with others that are also subjected to it.

Anybody that is offended by the discussion and is unnecessarily exasperating themselves by continuing to read it, deserves to be offended. If they feel compelled to continue reading & complaining & they get told that it is "none of their business", they shouldn't be surprised.

[Guest]

I like what you said, John. Where ELSE are you gonna talk about stuff like this????

Edited March 6, 2013 by madison5716

[Guest]

I like what you said, John. Where ELSE are you gonna talk about stuff like this????

An insane asylum?

[Guest DWA]

If you are going to claim to understand BF behavior, be prepared for someone to ask "how do you know?". If your answer is "none of your business, you'll just have to take my word for it", be prepared for people to lend very little credence to your claim. The first person to truly understand BF behavior, will probably be the first person to bring one in. Up to that, it's all conjecture.

Yes. But news! Habituators aren't talking to you. So they don't care.

Edited March 6, 2013 by DWA

[Cotter]

^Very true. I've been lucky to get some stuff shared with me privately regarding situations with repeated contact. I know this forum didn't tolerate ToeJam for very long, but that guy's been getting some pretty crazy stuff happening recently.

He's done with internet forums for the reasons discussed here in this very thread.

Sure some folks that are having experiences attribute mundane things to BF, but there are other, much much less mundane things that can be attributed to 2 things....BF or human....The fact that more and more repeated contact folks are NOT on an internet forum hollering from the hilltops about their experiences lends much more creedence to what they are saying. IMO.

If one can sit back and say 'I wasn't there, I'm not sure', and keep the snarky comments to themselves, it's amazing what people are willing to share.