N A W A C - Field Study Discussion

[Lake County Bigfooot]

Thanks Bipto for the previous response to my question of activity in area X,

I guess this question would just be a follow up, has anyone found prints in

the snow, and in general how common are track finds in the area? I am fairly

convinced that they can be absolutely present and leave very little track evidence.

This sort of contradicts the old school suppositions, but it seems like the case.

[Guest]

I don't think we've ever found tracks in snow, but it doesn't snow all that often and we're not in the area nearly as much in the winter, so it could just be that we don't have much opportunity to find them. WRT to other tracks, the ground there isn't conducive to recording them since it's very rocky, but we have found a few and can also sometimes track them through the leaf litter.

[Guest zenmonkey]

Well, yeah.  It's not like all of you live in Mena, AR.

 

I was just wondering whether you plot out targets of opportunity, and whether you think about what will actually get bang-for-buck from a resource expenditure perspective.

 

Believe me, I get it.  I go on more than anyone else here about how - as I think you once put it - practically no one, on a statistical basis, is "looking for bigfoot."

I know someone who does!!! Wheres painthorse when ya need her Not enough boots on the ground year round? :::raises hand:::  Bipto over the past decade or so has the activity been on the rise or decline?  I realize how hard that may be to put a finger on.

[Explorer]

Brian,

 

I read the Forest Vigil report in NAWAC website (and other related reports), but did not find enough technical details to better understand the camera-trap setup and the how well it worked.

 

Did NAWAC keep a database of every animal that was captured in each camera every day?

 

Did the animal capture rate differed significantly in magnitude and trend for each of the camera traps?  Did some perform better than others at capturing animals (bears or others) and why?

 

Did the bear density calculated from the camera-trap rate match the expected bear density in the Ouachita NF?

 

I will like to see a camera-trap density map (abstract map with no real coordinates) to see how many cameras were placed every year and how far apart each were set and how this changed every year, and how performance changed with different configuration.

 

Not sure if someone in NAWAC is going to publish a technical report on this extensive camera-trap survey, but I think the BF research community will learn a lot from it. 

 

We don't have to capture a BF on a camera trap to have a successful learning experience on field methods.  

 

I know that NAWAC moved away from camera-traps and is pursuing a different strategy, but I feel an analysis of the photo database and methods used will be very helpful to others who still want to pursue camera-traps.

 

 

 

I

[norseman]

Argument from authority. The papers Drew posted show different but you only believe your patron saints.

Adult brown bears can kill adult elk.

Yes they can although technically we are talking about grizzlies and not coastal brown bears.

But they cannot kill elk like john describes which is similar to a bulldogger. They pull with their hands the chin of the elk up until the neck snaps.

This method is collaborated by a eye witness account john speaks of in his interview. I highly suggest you listen to the interview , so at least your up to speed on what we are discussing.

A bear would break the neck by a blow from the fore paw. I would assume that one could tell the difference between the two different types of breaks and would be a good question for john.

[salubrious]

OK I got one.

 

Apparently some of the cabins have been subjected to 'debris rain'. Were you ever able to get any indication what the site (if any) was that they (or it) was throwing from? IOW, how far away they were when engaged in that activity?

[Painthorse]

I know someone who does!!! Wheres painthorse when ya need her Not enough boots on the ground year round? :::raises hand:::  Bipto over the past decade or so has the activity been on the rise or decline?  I realize how hard that may be to put a finger on.

LOL Zen, Painthorse shyly raises hand.

 

Someone above asked Bipto about finding tracks and he's correct about the terrain here. A good example is that I have a Mena addy but actually live in "Rocky" and it was named that for a reason. In 8 years we have only found good tracks twice. Like finding a needle in a haystack.

[Guest]

@Norseman, John doubted that cougars kill adult elk, but they do in fact and have been recorded breaking their necks.

[Painthorse]

OK I got one.

 

Apparently some of the cabins have been subjected to 'debris rain'. Were you ever able to get any indication what the site (if any) was that they (or it) was throwing from? IOW, how far away they were when engaged in that activity?

I also would like to add a question to the one above on  the rock throwing.

Did anyone in the group notice if any of the found rocks looked as though they were newly dug or "lifted out from the ground"?

Reason I'm asking is because a couple of years ago several rocks that had been chucked at the cabin were still covered in fresh red clay/sand. "NOT like one that's been weathered and basically clean on top" if that makes any sense.

[norseman]

@Norseman, John doubted that cougars kill adult elk, but they do in fact and have been recorded breaking their necks.

What does this have to do with anything ???

And where did he say that? Of course cougar kill deer and elk. Although they usually bite the throat and suffocate the animal.

I could see someone misidentifying a bear killing a elk......but not a cougar .

[Guest]

Cougars have been recorded killing elk by grapping and twisting, breaking the neck.

[norseman]

Ok? Your point?

[Guest]

That the elk could have been killed by cougars?

[norseman]

Or wolves, or a tree snag........What about the eye witness account?

[Guest]

You should know how about skeptic view those.