N A W A C - Field Study Discussion

[Guest]

You mentioned several sightings of the target. Assuming this was with the thermals do you have video?

 

No. We had two thermals deployed this past summer. One was weapon-mounted and, while I believe it's capable of video-out, it would have been too cumbersome to set it up that way. The second also has a video out capability, but we don't have the equipment necessary to record its output. Either way, these devices were deployed to aid in the collection of a specimen, not produce video evidence. We don't believe even the best video evidence will be taken seriously by those institutions and agencies necessary to protect and study wood apes. 

[1980squatch]

I am a bit surprised there is not more discussion of this latest episode...

 

Echo had its very own mutli-page thread, now nobody even looks up when NAWAC takes a crack at these things...

We don't believe even the best video evidence will be taken seriously by those institutions and agencies necessary to protect and study wood apes. 

 

Especially thermal.  BF researchers would certainly take note of good thermal footage, but outsiders would ignore it completely.

[Guest]

A good place to start in any discussion of the NAWAC's ongoing field research with Operation Relentless is episode 51 of The Bigfoot Show.

 

Here's a few images of the presumed hickory nut crushing rock and boulder we found earlier in the year.

 

Here's every episode of the BFS in which X and the NAWAC's activities there were discussed (the second half of 38 and all of 39 are the main X episodes from 2012).

 

Here's where you can listen to the presentation I gave at the Texas Bigfoot conference regarding 2011's Operation Endurance.

 

Here's where you can watch the presentation I gave at the Texas Bigfoot conference regarding 2012's Operation Persistence.

 

Here's the NAWAC's published report on Endurance and the Echo Incident.

 

And about a possible wood ape hair we collected and which was subsequently sent to Brian Sykes for analysis.

 

Finally, here are the archived BFF discussions about Operations Endurance and Persistence and the Echo Incident.

 

A link to BFS 54 makes this reference list complete for the moment. 

Edited September 25, 2013 by bipto

[Guest]

Enjoyed the latest episode Bipto, it is pretty amazing that the creatures have been "lucky" so far especially considering the most recent shot fired as well as the the witness that could have taken a shot but was mentally unable to carry out the objective in the narrow time window to do so due to shock and confusion of what they were seeing. It really is like guardian angel of sorts has used every trick in the book to keep them from beling shot but yet they remain so close and engaged in the on going interaction with NAWAC. I can only agree with your closing statements that this technique continued will yield more opportunties in the following year and likely the luck for the creaures will run out as those random twigs and branches will not always deflect the shot and more folks that have now had sightings makes them more prepared to take the shot.

[norseman]

Just some thoughts, take them for what you will Brian, or pass them along.

 

Get that thermal scope on a large caliber rifle that shoots a bullet with a large meplat, and is .400 diameter or above. (Caliber PLUS bullet design)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meplat

 

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/4570.html

 

 

I can see from your pictures you guys are not going to take a 100 yard shot in that jungle. Forget about a western plains magnum set ups with hyper speed boat tail bullets for long range shooting. A very large, very BLUNT bullet is going to plow through branches, leaves, bark and even small tree trunks. A bullet like that deflects much less than a boat tail or hollow point.

 

Get that "over watch" tent in a over watch position..........literally. It needs to be up in the air, and I'd also advise cutting in some shooting lanes at least in four directions around the over watch "tower". 

 

I realize there is a trade off here, your trying to keep the topo as el natural as possible. But by the same token you have to stack the odds in your favor. Your in some super dense forest,

 

Get the right caliber, get the right bullet design, get the shooter elevated and give him some clear shooting lanes IMHO.

 

Just listened further...............

 

Get rid of that .30-06.......

 

If the recoil of the .45-70 is too much for the thermal scope? Get rid of the scope as well.

 

Run a two man team, the spotter with a thermal monocular and the shooter with a .45-70 with a very bright tactical light and night sights. Earlier in your show the feller that was awake woke up the shooter and the shooter said he was on the target tree described to him in two seconds. So obviously you guys have enough team work for a spotter armed with a thermal to walk a shooter onto target in two seconds from a sound sleep. 

 

A possible added bonus to this scenario is that a very bright (500+ lumen) tactical light may very well disorientate the wood ape. I've read accounts of this before with the creature simply crouching and dropping its head and putting a fore arm in front of it's face for protection from a bright light being shone at it. Like it is experiencing a "white out" of sorts.

 

The longer and clearer you can see that creature, the odds for success continue on a upward trend.

 

http://www.surefire.com/m900lt-weaponlight.html

 

And yes they make RIS for lever guns:

 

http://www.grizzlycustom.com/custom_lever_action_rifle_tactical.html

 

 

 

In fact? I wouldn't be afraid at the ranges your dealing with to mount that thermal scope on a .44 magnum lever gun. The .44 magnum is a pistol round............big chunk of lead, but at relatively slow speeds compared to a rifle.........which means less recoil, because of less casing/powder load. It's hard to argue with a half inch hole in the target...........so long as you understand it has bowling ball ballistics.

 

Not trying to be a know it all jerk Brian............I just passionately want you guys to succeed down there, I'm pulling for you!!!

Edited September 25, 2013 by norseman

[Guest]

Norseman, in the episode it was mentioned the ATN Thor scope was not for use over a 30-06 powered rifle as the stronger recoil could or would damage the unit. They mentioned having a 45-70 which I agree would be preferred as they would too I presume. Thats a heck of slug right there BTW !

[norseman]

Right.

 

Read from the smiley face down on my previous post.

 

A couple of options.

[Guest]

...the the witness that could have taken a shot but was mentally unable to carry out the objective in the narrow time window to do so due to shock and confusion of what they were seeing. 

 

Yeah, that was somewhat confusing in the show. I didn't explain the equipment being used very well. I assume you're talking about Jordan and the sighting he had when he tried to raise Brad to take a shot. Jordan was using the groups unmounted hand-held thermal while Brad was the shooter on that team. Getting two thermals on two rifles is a priority for next year. 

[Guest Squatchologist]

Is there somewhere we can see the Structure that "they" destroyed?

[Guest]

A very large, very BLUNT bullet is going to plow through branches, leaves, bark and even small tree trunks. A bullet like that deflects much less than a boat tail or hollow point.

Yep. We're on that.

 

Get that "over watch" tent in a over watch position..........literally. It needs to be up in the air...

We're working on that very thing now.

 

Run a two man team, the spotter with a thermal monocular and the shooter with a .45-70 with a very bright tactical light and night sights. Earlier in your show the feller that was awake woke up the shooter and the shooter said he was on the target tree described to him in two seconds. So obviously you guys have enough team work for a spotter armed with a thermal to walk a shooter onto target in two seconds from a sound sleep.

 

Yeah, but we're in the Overwatch blind. You can't use a tactical light until you get out. By the time we're out, they're a quarter mile away. 

 

A possible added bonus to this scenario is that a very bright (500+ lumen) tactical light may very well disorientate the wood ape. I've read accounts of this before with the creature simply crouching and dropping its head and putting a fore arm in front of it's face for protection from a bright light being shone at it. Like it is experiencing a "white out" of sorts

 

We had one do exactly that last year when spotted by a tactical light mounted on a rifle. Saw eye shine, lit it up, arm came up, monkey booked like hell, shots fired. Thought we had that one, too.

Is there somewhere we can see the Structure that "they" destroyed?

 

There's a few pictures here: http://thebigfootshow.com/2013/09/22/episode-54-further-adventures-in-a-land-called-x/

[Guest]

Right.

 

Read from the smiley face down on my previous post.

 

A couple of options.

 

 

I guess you edited to add after my post, yes that would work I think.

Yeah, that was somewhat confusing in the show. I didn't explain the equipment being used very well. I assume you're talking about Jordan and the sighting he had when he tried to raise Brad to take a shot. Jordan was using the groups unmounted hand-held thermal while Brad was the shooter on that team. Getting two thermals on two rifles is a priority for next year. 

 

Actually I meant the daylight sighting the the fella that walked up behind Bob and was seeing "someone" down below that he described as looking like a cone head in a bow hunter camo mask with the red-orange halo effect of the light gleaming thru the perimeter hair on the creature.  And of course the shot taken from Overlook while "Alton Bait " was in the tent below... "Hey everyone, what  happend?"

Edited September 25, 2013 by GEARMAN

[norseman]

 

 

Yeah, but we're in the Overwatch blind. You can't use a tactical light until you get out. By the time we're out, they're a quarter mile away. 

 

I understand that, but you can retrofit the blind with camo netting instead of using black plastic, so if the shooter is walked onto target by the spotter it's just "click" and "boom".

 

 

We had one do exactly that last year when spotted by a tactical light mounted on a rifle. Saw eye shine, lit it up, arm came up, monkey booked like hell, shots fired. Thought we had that one, too.

 

Well maybe it won't work then.......I thought the light would anchor Grendel.

 

Option C is that trick .44 magnum lever rifle with the rail interface system that I showed you from grizzlycustom.com. Big chunk of lead, less recoil and keep the thermal on it.

 

[Guest]

You know, if you have fixed firing positions and absolutely, positively want something dead, you could go all Leonardo Da Vinci on their ass, and build something like this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribauldequin

Out of shotguns, with custom overpressure ball loads.

 

Or find a punt gun in good shape.

 

But that's just me pondering how to take the shot placement and deflection issues, and only time for a single pull of the trigger, factors out of the equation.

[norseman]

Maybe they could just mount an old Sherman tank up in a tree?

 

[Guest]

Or...